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Who Was The Traitor?



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Face My Fears

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I was rewatching Back Cover and I feel like an idiot for asking this because I feel like we're supposed to have "figured it out" but... who was the traitor? The Lost Page said was the one who bore the sigil, so I'm guessing Luxu (because he has the X)? Or was there no traitor and the Master of Masters was just screwing with them so that they would initiate the Keyblade War?
 

AdrianXXII

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I don't think the movie really answered the question, nor has the game yet really. I feel like it isn't hard to imagine either Luxu or the Master of Masters being the traitor, given that they are key players in how it all played out.

Though you could also make the case that it's Master Ava, seeing she's the one the struck the blow that initiated the Keyblade War and then didn't join the others at the end of KH3. Especially seeing she seemed to turn away from the master's path after learning what he had truly planned from Luxu.

Still Ava's strick at Luxu was provoked by Luxu it would seem.
 

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I always thought that maybe perhaps, there is NO traitor. It could've been a test used by MoM to confuse the foretellers or something of that nature. Putting them on edge before the war to distract them maybe?
 

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Since she went against the MoM's wishes, it's likely to be Ava.
MoM is the overarching progression.
Luxu fulfilled his role in MoM's prohesy.
The last 2 don't seem likely to be the traitor.
 

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I was rewatching Back Cover and I feel like an idiot for asking this because I feel like we're supposed to have "figured it out" but... who was the traitor? The Lost Page said was the one who bore the sigil, so I'm guessing Luxu (because he has the X)? Or was there no traitor and the Master of Masters was just screwing with them so that they would initiate the Keyblade War?
You know, I kind of think there WAS'NT a traitor. For the sake of this theory, let's pretend that MoM wanted the key blade war to happen (cuz come on, that guy is super mysterious, no one knows what he wants). Well, when it came down to it, the event that really sparked they keyblade war was the foretellers fighting amongst themselves, and dragging the unions into it. But what caused the foretellers to fight? While there were many causes, I believe the biggest was the suspicion of each other when they were told of a traitor.
So if MoM wanted the war to happen, and he COULD see the future, he would know that he needed to get the fortellers distrustful of one another. Hense, he would tell them there is a traitor. But from here my theory branches into two possibilitys. For both of them, let's pretend that MoM is a decent guy, who didn't want to lie to his pupils.
ONE, what if MoM wanted to see if there really was a traitor, so he wouldn't really be lying. But, what if his ability to look into the future isn't that accurate? We know nothing about it after all. So what if he saw into the next batch of foretellers if you will, the dandelion leaders, and mistook them for the foretellers? I think by this point every one agrees that Brain killed Striletzia. He's not supposed to be a leader and as such, could be called a traitor. So he could tell the foretellers this, thinking its them, when he is actually referring to the dandelions.
TWO, what if MoM was aware he was seeing the Dandelions, and just decided to be all cryptic about it, and be like, "There's a traitor!"
And the foretellers would be like, "G A S P !"
And MoM wouldn't TECNICALLY be lying, he would just be very VERY morally grey, and up one keyblade war.
That's the idea I'm playing around with anyway. I admit, it does seem a bit far fetched, but in the crazy train wreck we call kingdom hearts, you have to admit, it COULD happen.
 

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I think we’re all hoping it’s mentioned in the upcoming DLC.
 

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I think Ven killed her and that he's secretly the MoM.
While the Traitor Ven theory's are interesting, and you could still be right. As for MoM, considering how we saw him talking to young Xehanort in the present day in the DLC trailer, I think it's more than likely they are not one and the same. Of course, it's by no means solid evidence, but I would be surprised to find out they are the same. I believe MoM is his his own person, no future reincarnations or whatnot.


I thought he was trying to end the Keyblade War so he could see the fallout.
You could be right. Were getting a lot of information at once about the Union X characters that anyone could be doing anything.
 

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Gula from the Lost Page said:
Version 1:
"Unable to permit disharmony,
you will be disappointed by fate,
and lose sight of true strength...
Misreading the truth,
you will venture forth in secrecy..."

Version 2:
"Imbalance observed, strength misplaced, a future filled with sorrow.
Words of truth misunderstood as they explore the secret of tomorrow.
With a single strike, toll the bells and herald the end, bringing war upon us, as fate did intend."
By comparing the original translation of the Lost Page to the released version, we can see the correlation between the passages. When analyzed next to the actions of those considered traitors, it should be easy to extrapolate. Square is trying to throw curve balls and have us think it's Luxu, when it's clear from the original translation that it's referring to Ava.

Green text:

In Version 1, it is clear that it was Ava. By the time Gula revealed this to the Player, the other Foretellers had already come to accept that war was inevitable.

Version 2 muddies it with the specific words chosen. Because during the events of KHx, Luxu was observing imbalance and disharmony between the Unions. He was already aware of what the future held - and understood war brought sorrow.

Luxu doesn't care about stopping the Keyblade War. Ava does.

Purple text:

Version 1 says that "you" will be disappointed by fate. Once again, check mark for Ava. When she confronts Luxu, he tells her what's going to happen and she rejects what she hears. She literally cannot even.

Version 2 could be interpreted a couple of different ways. I only highlighted the part of the sentence that directly correlates to the passage in Version 1, but if the whole passage is selected, this directly points to Ava; eliminating Luxu from being the traitor because Ava shot struck first.

Yellow text:

Version 1 specifically states Ava's downfall. she put her trust in the Union Leaders and strength in numbers. While she was doing what the Master told her, she was doing it out of fear of the events to come.

Version 2 is kind of vague. No clear indicator of who the page is referring to. This is intentional. This was designed to keep us and the Foretellers off of Ava's trail.

Red text:

Version 1 could apply to both Luxu and Ava. Both of them are fulfilling their role; going about things they believe to be true. Ava, however, is the one that believes Luxu is contorting the Master's words to fit his beliefs.

We see at the end of KH3 that Luxu has been fulfilling his role, while Ava is somewhere dicking around. She refuses to come back. Luxu probably wouldn't hold it against her as she was doing what she thought was right, but she doesn't understand that he was just fulfilling his role. None of the other Foretellers believe Luxu at first, but he takes time to get them to understand, which is where the game ends unfortunately. This is just a side note. Comparing who is and who isn't doing the things that the traitor is doing.

Version 2 is once again not so different that it could lead to a different analysis of the passage. This is 4 checkmarks out of 5 for Ava being the traitor.

Blue text:

Version 1 is also a little hazy; because while this seemingly applies to Luxu, he's not keeping secrets from the other Foretellers (if one asks. Ava did). He's simply sitting back until the war and then moving off on his mission, which isn't secret. Hell, we know this, so it can't be that much of a secret to him. Contrast this to Ava, where she is moving in silence. No one has seen or heard from her since the Age of Fairy tales. Her role has been fulfilled, and as far as she believes, Luxu is the traitor. [She may possibly know it's her and feels too ashamed to return when summoned.]

Version 2 sounds like time travel. Plain and simple. As far as we know, Ava can't time travel. She has knowledge of Data World Travel, that's about it. That sounds like Luxu, but once again it's something that could be interpreted a certain way.

Given this, Ava is 5/5 for being the traitor, while this would technically put Luxu at 2/5. So going by what Gula tells us about the Traitor and The Lost Page, it's undeniably Ava.
 

Sephiroth0812

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Ava being the "traitor" does make quite some sense if one recalls that even in earlier discussions about the whole business we always had up the notion that being "the traitor" does not need to necessarily equate to being "evil" or willfully causing chaos.

Sometimes people go traitor and may even do objectively awful things in order to prevent an even worse outcome. Both in her confrontation with Luxu and later when she confronts the Player character during the actual Keyblade War Ava is completely shaken and "off the rails" so to speak so whatever Luxu revealed to her rattled her beliefs to the core it appears.

She accuses Luxu of misusing the Master's intentions for his own agenda/ambitions but that may be just her being in denial or projecting because she can't accept/fathom that it might be really the MoM's doing.
But eventually she does accept it and moves first to throw a wrench into the MoM's plans, then participate in the war herself (perhaps as a form of Penance for what she did to derail the MoM's plans?) where she tells Player that "there are secrets no one should know" and then urges them to fly away with the Dandelions.
 

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It's been awhile since I've watched Back Cover, but didn't this whole traitor thing start when they found a dark Chirithy? What if the Chirithy was put there to setup the Zoo-Keys, aka the Foretellers? What if the Chirithy was working with MoM all along to start the drama. I don't know all the lore on Chirithy's so maybe this is impossible. I just wanna try and be more involved in the Foreteller brainstorming ideas going forward.
 

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It's been awhile since I've watched Back Cover, but didn't this whole traitor thing start when they found a dark Chirithy? What if the Chirithy was put there to setup the Zoo-Keys, aka the Foretellers? What if the Chirithy was working with MoM all along to start the drama. I don't know all the lore on Chirithy's so maybe this is impossible. I just wanna try and be more involved in the Foreteller brainstorming ideas going forward.
You are more right than you know xD

Chirithy admits that everything surrounding his existence was intended by MoM. They weren't necessarily working together since by that point MoM had already removed himself from this conflict, but Chirithy continued to follow the role he was given to fuck things up.
 

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You are more right than you know xD

Chirithy admits that everything surrounding his existence was intended by MoM. They weren't necessarily working together since by that point MoM had already removed himself from this conflict, but Chirithy continued to follow the role he was given to fuck things up.
Then the traitor is the Chirithy! Either it or Gula. I'm picking Gula just because there is something about him that got under my skin in Back Cover and I want someone to put him in his place. Even if he isn't the traitor I still want that to happen!
 

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I'm not sure if this interpretation is valid at all because it's been a while since I watched Back Cover. If I recall correctly, the Master never explicitly stated that the traitor was one of the Foretellers, nor anyone related to them.

Somehow, this lead me to the idea that Sora could be the traitor... hear me out. The Master was able to plan for everything, so that even if one of the Foretellers was to betray him, it would be by his own design and not a true betrayal. Sora was the only person able to contradict the book of prophecies, as he did by rewinding time in the keyblade graveyard and defeating Xehanort.

One more thing—the book spoke of "the one who bears the sigil," which to me made the line that Xemnas said to Sora in 3D rather suspicious: "as your flesh bears the sigil, so your name shall be known as that of a recusant."
 

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You are more right than you know xD

Chirithy admits that everything surrounding his existence was intended by MoM. They weren't necessarily working together since by that point MoM had already removed himself from this conflict, but Chirithy continued to follow the role he was given to fuck things up.
Add that to the fact that the Chirity are literally a creation of the MoM.

Speaking of which, I hope the MoM creating Dream Eaters isn't a plotline left floating around. It's mindblowing that he can literally create something, like some sort of alchemist, which is something he was teased to be.

Other than that, perhaps the "traitor" was a construct the MoM made in order to further his plan that intended the Unions falling into war. A war which Ava so smoothly caused and accumulated survivors. I think Ava is the traitor, but it was a role the MoM conditioned her to be, as in: he planned it all along. There isn't an organic traitor, but rather, someone that filled in the role without realizing it.

Imagine playing "Clue" and you catch the person made out to be the murderer and not the murderer itself.

That's what the MoM did: a big setup for the sake of whatever his plan is.

The MoM is basically playing 4D board games on the universe of KH.
 

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I say Ava. Not only did she go against the master's teachings, but she also went against the rule about
Spoiler Spoiler Show
 

Ballad of Caius

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I say Ava. Not only did she go against the master's teachings, but she also went against the rule about
Spoiler Spoiler Show
Spoiler Spoiler Show
 

Sign

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I say Ava. Not only did she go against the master's teachings, but she also went against the rule about
Spoiler Spoiler Show
I recommend giving those scenes a rewatch, because everything in that spoiler tag is inaccurate.
 

TruestSyn

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I recommend giving those scenes a rewatch, because everything in that spoiler tag is inaccurate.
I guess I'll have to, those were the scenes that came out recently though weren't they? Man UX just gets harder and harder to follow.
 

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I guess I'll have to, those were the scenes that came out recently though weren't they? Man UX just gets harder and harder to follow.
One is, but the other is from many months ago.

Edit: I can just clarify things now:

1. MoM instructed Ava to give a copy of the Book of Prophecies to one specific Union leader. This person is most definitely not supposed to be Brain, but the point remains that one of the leaders was intended to receive the Book.

2. They're not in a Sleeping World, they are trapped in a Data World with no known means of escape. Brain is the one who realized this and is trying to find a way out.
 
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