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Who Was The Traitor?



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TruestSyn

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One is, but the other is from many months ago.

Edit: I can just clarify things now:

1. MoM instructed Ava to give a copy of the Book of Prophecies to one specific Union leader. This person is most definitely not supposed to be Brain, but the point remains that one of the leaders was intended to receive the Book.

2. They're not in a Sleeping World, they are trapped in a Data World with no known means of escape. Brain is the one who realized this and is trying to find a way out.
Oh yeah I meant data world not sleeping world, my terminology mixed up because for the longest time it was a sleeping world theory, but the other part I must have missed. I have a tendency to watch the japanese videos you guys post here and when I get to that point in the US UX i just skip it cause I already watched it but I'm bound to have missed a few. Guess I'll just look em up on Youtube or play through just cutscene missions on UX again in my free time lol
 

OneDandelion

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I'm starting to think they were all traitors in one form or another, but I also don't think "traitor" is meant as a bad thing, simply stating a fact. It is easy to link "traitor" to the dark chirithy, striletzias death, the keyblade war... etc... But it's not exactly that simple. All of them were "traitors" to the light or the MoM in one way or another.

But the Keyblade war would have happened anyway, the Dark Chirithy stated it came about from the player, and there is nothing to directly link either of these things to striletzias death yet.

The only effect the "traitor" had was to accelerate the keyblade war. The master of master would have known this would happen. He also knew that Ava and Luxu would be the only ones to escape it. At the moment I believe the accelerated development of the keyblade war was a show for Ava conducted by the MoM knowing she would become "darkness" to fulfill another undisclosed role. After all, Ava was chose as the leader of the dandelions for a reason that I would assume to be the strength of her character, perhaps knowing she would end up in the realm of darkness, survive, and become the "darkness" that communicates with maleficent. At the very least if it is not a more nuanced reason, I can't think of an explanation as to why Ava had to be the one to lead the dandelions.
 

SweetYetSalty

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I still say it's Gula! He's the Colonel Mustard of the Zoo-Keys! I also suspect he time traveled to also slay Marly's sister too!

And while it's true they could all be traitors I firmly stand by it's Gula who instigated the whole thing. They could all be guilty except for Ava, she's innocent. If Zootopia has taught me anything it's never wrongly accuse a fox.
 

ZeVaine

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Gula is certainly the traitor, in my mind.


He and Xehanort even share the same goal - start the keyblade war and summon kingdom hearts.
 

Tobi

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I rewatched the "movie" today and stumbled upon a detail, which probably already got covered, but something that hints atleast that MoM manipulated the Foretellers - and everyone else who got their hands on a copy of it - even more. Or it's a hint on how the Book of prophecies (and it's copies) are working.

There seems to be more differences between the copies and the original. As you can see on the pictures below in the spoiler, the right side of the book pages seems to be the same. Same symbol on top, keyblade at the same position and the text seems to be the same too, although I was a little bit unsure about the space between the paragraphs.

But the left side is different.

MoMs book shows a shadow, the text is at different places as it's in the copies and the symbol used seems to be the same, but upside down in comparison to Ira's copies (it's hard to tell because most of the time eiter Iras fingers and hand are blocking it or because of the sunlight), where instead of a Shadow a Darkside is shown.

In other words, if the pages in the book aren't getting altered if the future somehow changed and stuff like that - what I doubt since the Forettellers would have noticed that something had changed, because they already had their copies - MoM never gave them a true copy. The shadow missing could either mean, that MoM literally made out of a mosquito an elephant or he left parts out
.
This way all of The Foretellers and everyone after them who read the copies were misleaded to an unknown extent thinking to know the future (or atleast if the whole book is being held vaguely had hints of the future), but in truth they believed something altered.

If preventing altering the history wasn't enough this would be another reason why MoM didn't want Luxu having a copy, because then he could have become aware about the differences between what is written in the copy versus what is really happening.

Going a bit further - and I know I'm stretching this, but the following just popped back in my head - it was theorized that MX had access to one of the copies, because he sometimes spoke as if something was destined to happen (mainly in DDD, if I recall correcty). If there is any truth to this, it could also explain, why Xehanort didn't foresee Sora's meddelings in his plans. The original had him in there, but MoM left him out.



Spoiler Spoiler Show



And at this point I checked the Book of Prophecies parts again and stumbled on something more. When MoM went through the book before in order to find the page he planned to tear out, the Darkside page appeared before and looked exactly like the one on the Ira pic. Even more, between this page at it's original position and the keyblade page there were two more pages. One of them was purely with text, the other, the one with the Shadow we see later on the other side, had the Heartless emblem on it. Meaning that there isn't just one 'Lost Page', there are atleast three of them. This would explain why we have on Ira's pic Darkside on the left, because MoM left out those three pages (text, symbol/shadow, 'Lost Page').
Spoiler Spoiler Show


I do wonder if this was to cover up Xehanort one day coming into existence and doing his stuff. The Lost Page hinted at a traitor who bears a sigil. Xehanort bears a sigil (or something closed connected to one) in his name and other than the ones of the others like Luxu, his one is the only one which is written big (or am I forgeting someone?) - the same way the sigil looked like when MX showed it in BBS (atleast to me it resembled more a 'X'. The sigil of when Xemnas gave Roxas his name looked similar big). Gula stated it was way to vague described on the Lost Page. The heartless symbol on the symbol/shadow page and it connection to Ansem (and so with Xehanort) could mean that the reason why it was so vague was, because it was described more detailled on the pages before.

Ira was the one who analyzed the book the most (hinted early in Back Cover) so maybe this was also a reason why he wished to see Gula's Lost Page? Maybe he noticed that more was off than he thought at first and analyzing the Lost Page and it's position it had before it was ripped out could have him figguring this out? He must have scrolled through it more than once (when he got it, when he noticed nightmare-chirithy and the scene with Invi).

So in the end, if I stand correct, the traitor described on the Lost Page was Xehanort. This doesn't automatically mean there was no traitor back then in the age of fairy tales. Gula acted sometimes weird (especially when Aced and Invi were fighting and he even smilled at one point, but there was also him turining away from Ava - the one who created the Dandelions - in the opening segment) and someone else in UX could have done something bad too, but none of them had been described on the Lost Page.

In the end this would mean MoM was the biggest traitor to all of them because else, he wouldn't have gave Gula just one page but all three missing pages and started a witch hunt with no witch to be found - that is until they started to suspect each other as the witch.

(PS: I really like how I was able to change the size of the pics. something a lot more forums should have (y))
 

DraceEmpressa

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Just to note, Ava is the only one with a colorful keyblade without dark color in the blades body, and without sharp edges as well.
 

Foxycian

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No one is traitor but like many pointed it before it could be Ava because she went against the master teaching like aced but she went even further beyond.
 

SweetYetSalty

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No one is traitor but like many pointed it before it could be Ava because she went against the master teaching like aced but she went even further beyond.
It's because she's the fox that she gets blamed as the traitor. If she's acting out it's only because she's covering for Gula, the real traitor. They are friends so Ava likely is plunging her hands into the filth to shield the true villain that is Gula! Ava is a red herring and Gula is to blame for all the troubles of the KH world. A leopard doesn't change his spots.
 

Xickin

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This is a tough one. I'd like to say Ava, just based on her reaction in KHUX and the fact that Gula's page said that they would go against their role and act on their own (which is why I think she didn't appear in KH3's ending, because she's doing her own thing), but after thinking about MoM's interactions and other theories posted, I'm starting to think that maybe the traitor is a red herring. However, the traitor could also be in the new Union, and the fact that Ava recruited them could've set her off (I think it may refer to Ventus, but not because he's doing it willingly. I think Darkness possessed him to make him a vessel for time travel, and is chasing MoM).
 

Zetsumei

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Lately I've begun to wonder if actually Luxu is the real traitor here. There's many signs that he could actually end up being the ultimate villain, and not the Master of Masters.

I'll quickly go over a few reasons I think this might be the case.

1. The lost page references "the one who bears the sigil". If this is referring to the recusant's sigil, in terms of possible people this could refer to at the time of X back cover, Luxu is the only one with an 'X' in his name. The definition of the word "Recusant" is a person who refuses to submit to an authority or to comply with a regulation. If the Master of Masters is the highest authority to the foretellers, then a traitor to the Master of Masters could be described as a "Recusant".

2. Going off of number 1, then we can surmise that Xemnas was not the first person to utilize the recusant's sigil, but rather Luxu was the true originator of this practice, bestowing the first sigil upon Xehanort. This name is an anagram, like all nobody names, which can spell "Another, or "No Heart", both of which appear in the KH series, one as a boss fight in BBS, and the other as a password to enter the chamber of Repose. Neither of these seem to spell an actual person's name however, as is standard with other nobodies. It could be that this is because Xehanort is actually the first of his kind, created from Luxu himself, and named not for the person he originated from but for the being that had been created. A being with "No Heart" that represents "Another" version of the person from which the nobody was formed. A clue that this might be the case, is Xigbar's line in DDD when Sora asks "Aren't you scared of turning into someone else?" Xigbar grins and replies "Me ? I'm already half Xehanort." or perhaps more accurately, Xehanort is already half Luxu.

3. When Ava confronts Luxu just before the keyblade war in KHX, she states that Luxu is "Interpreting the Master's words in your own way" and even accuses him, perhaps rightly so, of being the traitor. Luxu responds defensively to this by drawing his keyblade, ultimately sparking the conflict that signaled the beginning of the Keyblade War. Gula tells us that "The traitor is the catalyst that leads to the world's end." Most people think this points to Ava being the traitor, but it could just as easily refer to Luxu, since both of them were part of the conflict that "tolled the bells and herald the end" Furthermore, if Ava believed that Luxu was the traitor, then her actions following the keyblade war (giving brain the BoP) could be interpreted as being in opposition to Luxu and not the Master of Masters. If I were to speculate, perhaps she thought she could alter events in the BoP so as to prove Luxu was wrong about the MoM.

If Luxu is the real traitor, then it could be that his ultimate goal is to usurp the Master, placing himself as the true villain of the KH series. Personally, I think this would make for an excellent story, making Luxu out to be the ultimate evil genius who outsmarted even the Master of Masters, and tie together all of Kingdom Hearts by keeping one constant figure as the true puppetmaster who was with us all along.
 
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SweetYetSalty

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Lately I've begun to wonder if actually Luxu is the real traitor here. There's many signs that he could actually end up being the ultimate villain, and not the Master of Masters.

I'll quickly go over a few reasons I think this might be the case.

1. The lost page references "the one who bears the sigil". If this is referring to the recusant's sigil, in terms of possible people this could refer to at the time of X back cover, Luxu is the only one with an 'X' in his name. The definition of the word "Recusant" is a person who refuses to submit to an authority or to comply with a regulation. If the Master of Masters is the highest authority to the foretellers, than a traitor to the Master of Masters could be described as a "Recusant".

2. Going off of number 1, then we can surmise that Xemnas was not the first person to utilize the recusant's sigil, but rather Luxu was the true originator of this practice, bestowing the first sigil upon Xehanort. This name is an anagram, like all nobody names, which can spell "Another, or "No Heart", both of which appear in the KH series, one as a boss fight in BBS, and the other as a password to enter the chamber of Repose. Neither of these seem to spell an actual person's name however, as is standard with other nobodies. It could be that this is because Xehanort is actually the first of his kind, created from Luxu himself, and named not for the person he originated from but for the being that had been created. A being with "No Heart" that represents "Another" version of the person from which the nobody was formed. A clue that this might be the case, is Xigbar's line in DDD when Sora asks "Aren't you scared of turning into someone else?" Xigbar grins and replies "Me ? I'm already half Xehanort." or perhaps more accurately, Xehanort is already half Luxu.

3. When Ava confronts Luxu just before the keyblade war in KHX, she states that Luxu is "Interpreting the Master's words in your own way" and even accuses him, perhaps rightly so, of being the traitor. Luxu responds defensively to this by drawing his keyblade, ultimately sparking the conflict that signaled the beginning of the Keyblade War. Gula tells us that "The traitor is the catalyst that leads to the world's end." Most people think this points to Ava being the traitor, but it could just as easily refer to Luxu, since both of them were part of the conflict that "tolled the bells and herald the end" Furthermore, if Ava believed that Luxu was the traitor, then her actions following the keyblade war (giving brain the BoP) could be interpreted as being in opposition to Luxu and not the Master of Masters. If I were to speculate, perhaps she thought she could alter events in the BoP so as to prove Luxu was wrong about the MoM.

If Luxu is the real traitor, then it could be that his ultimate goal is to usurp the Master, placing himself as the true villain of the KH series. Personally, I think this would make for an excellent story, making Luxu out to be the ultimate evil genius who outsmarted even the Master of Masters, and tie together all of Kingdom Hearts by keeping one constant figure as the true puppetmaster who was with us all along.
This is a great theory. Ava did nothing wrong, and I remain on her side If it happens like you said all I'll say is this "You clever little sneak"
 

Foxycian

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Tho I remember The master never said the traitor was among the foretellers he just said there is a traitor, it’s Ira who insisted that the traitor was among the 5 leaders, many already said it before but I guess they could be right, the master was just plotting them against each other for his plans to work.
 
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