- Oct 17, 2015
In 3D he's seen giving Lea orders, could that mean he's become the new ruler of Radiant Garden, or at least a high-up in the restoration comity?
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To be more precise he was chuming out infodumps like no tomorrow, lol.Uh what? Ienzo wasn't giving orders to anyone. He was conversing with Lea at most.
Considering that he is only interested in "experiments" and seems to have no moral compass it would certainly be possible.You have a point there. Speaking of Even, do you think it's possible that he might end up working with Xehanort again?
And I'd think that Leon and the others are smart enough to not let these criminals back into any position of power.I'd like to think some of the greatest scientific minds in the world are smart enough to know not to follow the guy who got them stuck in a nightmarish miserable existence for 12 years and killed, I mean you don't get many second chances in life and DYING is pretty much the ultimate sign you screwed up.
Also I think the apprentices darker actions are being overstated. We saw they were good people in the past, it was Xehanort's corrupting influence that made them bad...except Braig he's just a jerk. So at worst they are no worse off than KH1 Riku, in fact they are better off because their actions only contributed indirectly to their world's destruction. Riku actively and purposefully destroyed his own world...so yeah if Riku can be redeemed so can they. There is also something I've been thinking of for awhile now...we don't actually know that their test subjects were unwilling. Like we assume they kidnapped people but I think it's quite possible they willingly recruited test subjects who had consented. I get the sense that's what happened with Lea and Isa they were just kids trying to sneak into the castle, I bet they willing consented to the experiments in order to get a free pass inside. And if so...that doesn't actually make their experiments all that evil in the long run, after all they thought they were doing experiments to learn how to protect people from the darkness in their own hearts. They didn't know Xehanort had horrendous ulterior motives.
Heck for all we know the reason the apprentices were ultimately so willing to give up their hearts right then and there is because Maleficent was at their doorsteps, their world was already lost, so all they could do was either go down fighting or cut their losses and take that final experimental plunge. There are a lot of blanks about RG between BBS and KH1 so at this point, especially given what we've seen of them, I'm not sure it's fair to assume the worst of the 4 apprentices anymore.
It is not even just assumptions as the Ansem Reports do state it quite clearly:^ I think a lot of people assume that the apprentices kidnapped test subjects was because of that actual dungeon that we saw Xemnas walk through to get to the Chamber of Repose. See, Heartless aren't really stopped by things as mundane as walls or locked doors, since they can either just phase through a la the Shadow, or just travel through their own little dark corridors like the rest of em. So, what were those cells doing there, and what were they supposed to hold? Take a wild guess.
I'd imagine that the test subjects might've been consensual before Ansem the Wise told Xehanort to stop the experiments. Seems to me like that was when the research became much more shady.
"Large number" does indicate that there were hundreds of them so even if there were some willing subjects at first if none of them ever returned from the Castle and the lab how long does one think the populace would continue to agree being "willing subjects" for some shady experimentation that obviously results in their disapperance?Unbeknownst to me, my six apprentices then began collecting a large number of subjects on which to perform dangerous experiments into the "darkness of the heart."
As soon as I found out, I called my apprentices together and ordered them not only to cease their studies, but to destroy the results of their research thus far.
You bring up a good point actually.Come to think... we keep bringing up Riku and saying "if he can be redeemed, so can these guys," but... okay, so he had to deal with the repercussions of actively destroying his world, kidnapping, and attempted murder. The apprentices... well, not only are they implied to have kidnapped a lot of people, as well as doing god-knows-what For Science, (plus all that attempted murder while they were Nobodies) but they're also kinda responsible for the creation of the Heartless Manufactory and, in turn, the creation of a legion of darkness zombies that proceeded to terrorize and destroy dozens of worlds. The apprentices don't just have the destruction of their own world on their hands; they practically enabled the annihilation of the universe.
I can agree with the first one easily but not with the second one. Just like Riku they have to earn their right for a second chance by actually actively trying to repent and not already given positions of power right off the bat again. If they truly want to make up for the shit they pulled they would need to willingly share their "secret knowledge" with Leon & co. as well as accept a subordinate role to the FF cast who is right now running the world and doing it much better service than they ever did.What I'm saying is that they should be given a chance for redemption and allowing them to be part of the restoration committee, to put blood sweat and tears into fixing the world they hurt while making it safer for people is something they should be allowed to do. They also have leverage in that they are much more powerful than that group and significantly more intelligent, not to mention very knowledgeable of the secrets that the RG crew is struggling to get.
Not letting them join is a mistake, they already have power you can't do anything about that but what you can do is bring them into your fold in order to make use of that power for good while letting them redeem themselves.
And I really think you're jumping the gun to say "they don't seem to think they did anything wrong". They are actively shown in-game to be trying to clean up the place, locate their missing guys, and trying to figure out what happened. Nothing screams from that, that they don't feel bad in fact if they didn't feel something I'd imagine they just leave not stick around to clean up their master's study and find their missing friends.
That's exactly what I mean, retribution and actions of atonement from their side have to come before they are granted significant positions and possibly even trust again, not the other way around.I agree that the original members deserve a chance at redemption, but at the same time they're not completely blameless for what they did. Even Riku spent a year fighting a cold war with the Organization (because Idk what to call his and DiZ's fight against them if not that) before he could even begin to forgive himself, and even then he was too ashamed to face his friends. Dilan, Ienzo, Aeleus, and even Even should get a chance to atone for their actions, but they still need to be held accountable for their actions.
When we learned that Ienzo was only a kid at the time the experiments were performed, I assumed that asking Ansem to build the lab was something Xehanort put him up to. Kid!Ienzo didn't strike me as cruel so much as shy. It's not hard to picture Xehanort convincing the kid to ask Ansem about the lab for him, using Ienzo's status as Ansem's adopted son to get what he wants.the only one i could really say "maybe he's not so bad" is ienzo considering his age, and the fact ansem the wise raised him as his son, he would either have to be completely cruel to turn on him, or he didn't.
i also wonder what happened to ienzo's parents more as time go by. perhaps they volunteered for similar experiments and AtW killed them by mistake, guilting him into shutting down extensive heart research forever.
this is all just a dumb theory of mine but the apprentices' research was based off of Ansem's, so how farfetched would it really be if DiZ built most of this equipment in the first place? just take his treatment of the nobodies for example. good men can do terrible things.