I was thinking so as well though I do hope to be wrong. If sora's getting one get everybody one, even if only in end game scenes.
Implying such fanart and posts don't already exist. xD
Ventus and Roxas Meeting
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Implying such fanart and posts don't already exist. xD
The most jarring part about this was that Nomura stated Ventus not to be Roxas and that people would be able to "differentiate them with ease" once they played BBS (including the secret ending) even before BBS was released in Japan.
Nomura stated Roxas and Ventus to be completely different individuals before the first game having Ven in a bigger role was even out and people still didn't get it.
New outfits would actually be a very neat idea, especially for Ven, Aqua and Terra. For Ventus, I'd say he should get an outfit which emphasizes his dual nature of light/wind better, probably with some green and gold colors incorporated and also more lightweight as a throwback to his speed-based style. He doesn't need three or four layers of clothing that clutters up his design. Roxas probably should just get rid of the black coat for good and get an updated version of his Twilight Town outfit.
Full agreement on that. Changing their physical appearances would not be a good idea, also since it doesn't add up in-universe since everyone looks like their heart itself and those who know them remember him/her. Roxas looks like Ventus still because that's how he himself (his heart) and others remember his appearance to be, that was even plain out said at the end of KH 2 when he talked with Naminé.
Furthermore, them becoming their own existences again does not automatically indicate that their connection to Sora's heart will be erased as well, so there won't be any "magically induced" change to their physical appearance just to give fans an easier time to tell them apart since their clothing, battle style and voices already do that for the most part anyways.
I certainly hope that it is solely the wardrobe change that is discussed here, as Wander already pretty accurately pointed out how an actual change of physical appearance would impact within much of the fandom. The only purpose it would really serve is to make it even more blatantly easier to tell them apart for those few who apparently can't be bothered to look a bit more closer in order to differentiate them.
Do not forget that their appearances at the end of DDD were inside Sora's heart, so that's how their hearts and memories reflect their appearance. That they may get new duds later on when they're physically around is not out of the question.
Both (adult)Lea and Xion will need completely new duds anyways since they were never shown in anything else but Org coats, unlike Roxas who has at least his Twilight Town-outfit.
At least for TAV there would actually be a very logical in-universe reason for them to change clothes considering how long they were in predicament.
That being said, Naminé could really use some new duds as well, maybe Kairi can offer her a decent alternate outfit to her plain white dress which she sports since CoM.
The realms of Fanart are so wide that you can find almost everything if you look long enough, so I'll say that alternate costumes for nearly every major original character of the series belong in a category that is rather easy to find compared to some others.
Those people, whom you referred to as being unable to
wouldn't have bothered to heed what Nomura had to say either. I wouldn't be surprised if later, around or a few weeks after KH3's release, we see a noticeable increase in new members, most of whom would probably be those who have only played KH1 and KH2, and would ask about Roxas and his "long-lost twin" at least once. I think I would never get tired responding to them one by one if I have to.
Ventus and Roxas' similarities have never been, and never will be, an issue in its own right. How they would react upon seeing each other, however, is another story, and this could be really interesting and I would really like to see how it would play out.
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Dx Dont remind me, those months were truly months of a forum hell. They'd argue even after posting said Nomura comment for reading.
Hell I'm all for everyone getting new duds really. (would also like to see kairi go back to her kh1 hair style) B
Buuut I'm not sure we'll get such changes this saga.
Oh you have no idea. Each time I search for avie material I get bombarded with them. Though I have to admit some are really cool and well thought.
Oh gawd please dont jinx us. ;A; Me and seph have already seen enough of such people.
I imagine there'll be some initial shock between the two. After all despite the differences they do have nearly identical faces save a handful of minute differences.
I wasn't requesting a full character redesign, mainly just some minor changes like clothes, hair style/color and maybe even eye color. That's essentially what it seems they did to make the Roxas/Ven design from Sora's design anyway and it does wonders in terms of looking different. (at least from what I can tell, and judging from Xemnas' comment "He really does look like you") This would be enough not to piss off the fandom, but to still differentiate themselves from their "others" as Xion and Roxas become their own people. Look at Namine and Kairi, I did not see the resemblance at all until that last scene when her and roxas glimmer over Sora and Kairi's bodies. That's actually why I didn't mention her for a redesign, she looks different enough just with long blonde hair.
ex: Roxas comes back with shaggy hair, dirty blonde color, green eyes instead of blue, and of course new clothes.
But that might be unnecessary. What would the in-game justification of changing his hair and eye colours be, anyway? And it's not like without changing them, people wouldn't be able to differentiate Ventus from Roxas from their clothes... if anything, a change of clothes is all that's needed.
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Like Sephiroth said (our lovely forum member, not the villain), Roxas will appear the way others remember him, that's the in-game justification, having him appear different would make that scene with Naminé at the end of KH2 pretty pointless.
Again, there are still problems with what you suggested. Media wise, you won't be able to use Roxas' character as advertisement because you can't slap on his new face on an ad and say "This is Roxas now, story reasons, deal with it" and have the same effect as actually advertising him as the person people already know him as. Then, you'll hear stuff like "Why was Roxas the one who got redesigned? He's been in the series much longer than Ven and is generally more well known as a character!" which makes complete sense because like someone pointed out in this thread, some people only play the numbered games. And of course, you can't change Ventus' appearance because canon. It would just add another layer of "KHPLOTLOLZ" that would be completely irrelevant.
Also, Xion looks completely distinct from anyone in the series, so no need for that.
New clothes are perfectly normal and are always welcome, so is actual physical aging (man, Riku is taaaall). But changing his appearance from the way he's looked for years would make no sense honestly, especially when the only reason is because some people can't tell between a street kid and a person who wears body armor.
What you bring up there is actually a problem in itself for the KH series as a whole, not only regarding information about Ventus and Roxas, as many people either don't bother/don't want (those get only a middle finger from me figuratively) to read the supplementary material despite it being the second highest tier of canon.
Then there are however also those who would like to get such information but who do not even know these materials exist because much of it is just again Japan-only stuff, especially the Ultimanias. From that viewpoint, I do point at Nomura and the developers/scenario writers for not including some of these crucial information in the games themselves.
I'm already mentally prepared for those who will come around and have played only 1 and 2 and my type of answer will most likely depend on how one asks about the issue.
Correct. It also baffles me why it's always those two that get brought up, yet no one seems to have a problem with Huey, Dewey and Louie, Riku and Riku Replica/Data Riku or Sora and Data-Sora.
That's why a meeting between (or any interaction, really) Roxas and Ven is one of my "want to see"-topics for KH III.
Indeed, lol, I remember fuming about how some people apparently just cannot wrap their heads around two characters looking nearly totally identical but nonetheless being completely different individuals/persons.
This concept is so old and has been done so often it's somewhat weird that it apparently is just such a big deal for those two characters in a fantasy game series where even weirder things happen regularily.
Another such "pet peeve" of mine is actually this still persisting claim that the voice in the awakening speaking to Sora in KH 1 is Ventus despite it having been confirmed that it is Mickey and the profound reasons that a) Ventus' heart is not only sleeping but also damaged and thus unable to communicate (in-universe reason) and b) at the time of KH 1 the character named "Ventus" didn't even exist yet because Nomura thought out BBS during the development of KH 2 (real life reason).
Agreed, although I'd say hairstyle is a matter of taste for everyone.
It can go either way, really. They do have to create new models for each major original character though, so they may also go the road a bit farther to include at least one alternate outfit for the majors.
I've also got the impression that fanart vastly outnumbers official art, and there are so many different takes on them that I simply do not believe people who whine that there is just hentai/yaoi-art of KH. Those either do not look enough or are just looking for something to latch on so they can complain.
I've seen cute, epic and/or funny fanart en masse on both deviantart and pixiv that vastly outnumbers the "sexual" fanart of all variants.
I'm afraid there isn't a jinx needed, lol, some of those most likely will find their way here. Maybe it stands to reason that we should create a stickied thread "What those that only played KH1 and 2 and also ignored the HD Remasters need to know" two or three months before KH III is released.
There we compile a list of bullet points with all the necessary stuff to know and each time such a question comes up we can just point at that thread and Sign, Chaser or Spockanort can then close the individual thread (much like it is already done with the worlds-thread).
Shock, disbelief and confusion,or any of that combination. Bonus points if they then circle each other for a while and mirror their movements, lol, until one of them (most likely Ven, considering his curious nature) is bold enough to outright step forward and get a conversation moving.
For more funny points they could have Sora standing in the background grinning like a doofus. ;P
There is no logical explanation though as to why Roxas' hair color or beware even eye color should change all of a sudden. His heart that holds his memories already has an image of his appearance, as does everyone who knows and remembers Roxas.
His heart and memories are what define him as his own person, as well as the memories others have of him, not his physical appearance.
That's also a valid reason, not to mention that Roxas and Ven looking so much alike is a very promoted fact throughout the series itself anyways.
Yep, I can already imagine the debates that would spring up in the wake of such a change, regardless if done to Roxas or to Ven, as both make very little sense.
Considering how much Nomura used both Sora's and Riku's KH 1 forms though I suspect that he regrets already aging them for KH 2, lol.
Full agreement here as well. ^__^
The main reason why I'd like to see them make some sort of digital ultimania that you can access from the start menu screen of kh3 explaining the ins and outs of the Xehanort saga and series thus far.
It'd be such a simple fix to such a long standing problem. TnT
ugh I dont even like to remember it lol. You'd think that if they had such a hard time telling by face they could at least differentiate from clothes and what not. x'D
I tie this issue back into the lack of info nomura leaves out of games which are present in other material.
While, just from production timeline alone, one should easily get that it isn't ventus as he wasn't thought up yet BUUT fans love their connections.
It may be a matter of taste but damn it for once I'd like the universe to do something in favor of mine specifically! xDAgreed, although I'd say hairstyle is a matter of taste for everyone.
It can go either way, really. They do have to create new models for each major original character though, so they may also go the road a bit farther to include at least one alternate outfit for the majors.
I'd like to hope they will.
To say it out numbers official art is an understatement lol. But Agreed.
lol Hell if we're gonna go that far we minds well make a whole thread detailing the series in whole using interviews and ultimanias to point out and clarify any questions a new member might have.
I'd actually like to see this scene. xD
Just like how director's commentary is an accessible option in some of DVD or BluRay movies? That'd be awesome, but I wonder if the cost of the game will have to soar because of that, haha. After all, you're combining materials from a few printed media that have been out there in the market.
If I remember correctly, Ventus' heart showed signs of activity only upon Xion's disappearance, right? If so, then, if Days didn't happen, it could still be possible that the voice was Ventus, and the fact that he hadn't been thought of at that time could be easily retconned by Nomura. Sadly, Days did happen and Nomura had even said that it was Mickey, but some people just couldn't stomach the truth.
I understand it's so hard to have theories you had defended so vehemently ruined by someone with higher authority and say on the matter, but truth is truth.
Actually, the materials are already out there if they would only make use of the search function and Google, so post only the links might suffice.
I wouldn't say the price would soar all that much or at all since what I'm proposing is just text detailing stuff.
Ventus' heart didn't show any signs of activity in days. The only signs we had were that Roxas made a connection to his heart when Xion "died" and gained access to his keyblade. And that in of itself isnt a sign of activity just a sign of his presence within roxas (sora's body).
Ven's more or less remained the same with DDD being the first time we've seen any actual activity from him.
They could but as Sephiroth points out most are to lazy to do so and the rest don't even know they exist until they come here or another place such as kh13.
Ah, yeah, that's what I was talking about. Probably "signs of activity" wasn't a good phrase to use.
Well, I wouldn't blame the latter group. They could be just casual gamers who don't really care about the lore behind the story and play only for the games themselves, and there's nothing wrong with that. After all, you can't expect everybody to be as... dedicated, perhaps, as we are. If they decide to come here to seek information, that's good, since we can direct them to where they can find it, answer their inquiries, and explain things to them.
As for the former, though... as Sephy said, they might deserve getting the figurative middle-finger treatment, although I myself won't go as far as that. I also don't advocate literal flipping of the bird.
Gosh, it's getting more and more divergent from the thread topic. Let's stop here, haha.
Well, wouldn't that only apply if they were still hearts projecting an image of themselves? Since we are assuming they will be brought back as full people, wouldn't that also imply they all get a body of their own? The method of this body's creation if they are to get one is not currently known, and how much control they have over the appearance is also a toss up. If they do have any level of control over the physical appearances of the newly generated bodies, I'd figure the reasoning would come from their inner desire to be their own people would cause these minor tweaks to really emphasize the separation between themselves and who they came from. Of course, as Sepheroth said, them becoming their own people doesn't mean that these previous connections are fully cut. Its more of a symbolic thing than anything else much like they use the yellow eyes to signify those who have been taken by the darkness. Or why Vanitas took on Sora's form without actually coming from Sora. If anything it seems like the in game reasons for these characters looking like Ven and Kairi would be gone after KH3, so why not give them a tweaked look to signify this independence? Not saying it has to happen, but it would fit with the constant use of physical symbolism of the KH series.
Also with branding, it shouldn't be a problem since they wouldn't use these characters for advertising until after KH3 when everyone who cares would have seen them. Or simpler still, have their name under the updated models like they always do. Tweaking the designs is no more cumbersome or confusing to the fans than keeping them the same. Although the eye color could be a step to far, I still think all of the other changes would be acceptable.
That would be a god's end, lol, especially if it is unlocked when finishing the game for the first time alonside the theater mode.
While I might also not like to remember it I do still remember clearly because I did it so often. Seriously, they can be differentiated by looking at the color and thickness of the edges of their wristbands alone, their shoes, jackets, pants, the list goes on.
I give you that, also considering that this interview where Nomura confirms it is Mickey is apparently rather hard to find across the net because it was in the KH 1 Final Mix-Ultimania.
Exactly, not to mention that loving connections is all fine and dandy (and in-universe Ven's heart is of course there) but it also makes no logical sense to be Ventus even in-universe cuz:
1. The wording of the voice is totally off, Ventus does not talk like that.
2. His heart is sound asleep and inactive due to damage.
3. Much of the stuff that voice talks about is stuff about metaphysical issues that Ventus knows nothing about.
4. In one of the new cutscenes in Final Mix Mickey admits that he was always trying to reach Riku, but couldn't cut through the darkness around his heart, which confirms his ability to reach out and talk with other hearts, something Ventus' heart wouldn't be capable of at that time because of reason 2.
One funny thing about Kairi is that even from official renders and art of both her versions I'm still not sure if she's a brunette or a redhead, as depending on the scene and/or model her hair can look both.
Me too, especially for Naminé, Xion and TAV because they had no outfit change yet while Roxas, Sora, Riku, Lea, Kairi, Mickey, Donald and Goofy had at least one.
Heh, it should actually not be surprising considering the number of fans (who can draw and paint) vastly outnumbers the official artists. ;P
Granted, and such a thread would still not stop some newbies from making threads on their own on a topic regardless. I guess a better solution for me personally is then to prepare a template-post that holds the facts of the most often asked questions which I can then take parts from without having to write it out each time, *ggg*.
A Roxas & Ventus meeting and interaction is among the top five scenes I wish to see in KH III actually.
It was the other way around. Roxas accidentally accessed Ven's slumbering heart unsealing his Keyblade. If Ven's heart would have been in any form active before Dream Drop Distance (and there remember that Ven's heart was also only "active" when Sora was in the Realm of Sleep) Sora would have experienced specters of him and some scraps of memories like he did with Kairi in KH 1.
It's the very nature of a theory that it can be refuted or superseded at any time in a still ongoing work. While many things in KH are open to interpretation, things like the voice talking to Sora in KH 1 being Mickey are stated facts.
Of course no one can (and should try to) hinder people who want to to write an alternate Fan-story where the voice is indeed Ventus though, since this is then really just that: A fanwork that deviates from actual canon in a certain point.
Gram already said it, the appearance of the body, as in the physical appearance, is determined/dictated by the heart and the memory contained within it.
Their inner desire to be their own people would be already met by the fact when they get an own vessel for their heart though, as then they can already exist separately together with their former "others" without needing to "return" to them.
As Riku said in DDD appearances can be deceiving, and being their own people entails much more than just mere appearance.
Golden eyes are an indicator of Xehanort-influence though, not of being "taken by the darkness".
Why would these reasons suddenly be gone? The reasons for their appearance being like it is was just to give an explanation for why the looks turned out to be as they are, not to describe if they're their own person or not.
The question if you have an individual person or not is not answered by a unique appearance or the reasons why you look like you do, but by the fact if the entity in question has a heart (or is growing one) and if he/she is recognized as an own person by others as well as him/herself.
That's what Joshua actually explained in DDD pretty well:
DDD said:
All this said though, it is of course possible that i.e. Roxas or Ven may decide to dye his hair or change his hairstyle in order to attain a more obvious visual difference by themselves later, but they might also as well decide to leave everything as is and on top decide to get the same set of clothes later to confuse people.
But these are personal decisions the characters might take (like Riku cutting his hair for DDD), not anything that would be influenced by how they come back/gain their physical existence back.
Exactly, not to mention any other person who knows Roxas sees him in that appearance too, just like the black-haired Kairi-lookalike is what the "true" (as in the person, not the physical puppet) Xion looks like.
Among mine as well.
I think I know a possible reason why some are making this a bigger deal than it should be. Roxas is a fan favourite and there's bound to be emotional attachment between some people and him, and probably, they don't want to see Roxas getting depressed yet again. Kid's been through some identity crisis in Days, and they might be concerned about how Roxas would fare upon finding out that even becoming his own person, his face is actually based on someone else's.
Boy, how I want to pull this card against them, just for fun:
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^lmao that image is to true.
TAV needs one most of all.
TnT May I have a copy and paste of the template?
lol It'd probably be better to have it optional from the get go in a DDD glossary like style so curious fans can finally understand ins and outs.
Number 4 probably would've helped in the issue had they actually released a final mix outside japan before 2013. Dx
I usually go with red, since it appears as such in game, but seeing as my own hair is a combination of red and brown (and appears as both depending on light) I'd say both would be suitable for her.
TAV needs one most of all.
True but at the very least, in those cases, we'd have an almighty thread to refer them too. xD
TnT May I have a copy and paste of the template?
It's definitely one of mine right behind Aqua and Sora's shock at seeing vanitas. (since Ven was the only one of the heroes to see his face)
Among mine as well.
I think I know a possible reason why some are making this a bigger deal than it should be. Roxas is a fan favourite and there's bound to be emotional attachment between some people and him, and probably, they don't want to see Roxas getting depressed yet again. Kid's been through some identity crisis in Days, and they might be concerned about how Roxas would fare upon finding out that even becoming his own person, his face is actually based on someone else's.
Boy, how I want to pull this card against them, just for fun:
It has the opportunity to be very funny or very heartwarming/wrenching, or even both at the same time. ^__^
But these dedicated "Roxas Fans" are then not really confident in Roxas' abilities and emotional development throughout the series, are they? Roxas is not a depressed emo kid anymore since he learned more about his origins and his identity crisis was solved in KH 2.
Not to mention his face is already based on someone else's anyways since he's Sora's Nobody, so while the revelation that the origin of his birth might have involved partly two people (but Ven's "contribution" was really very small to begin with) may result in some surprise, I do not think that Roxas is psychically so weak that he will experience another total breakdown, especially when he will most likely already have the background info (from Sora or someone else) that he has a heart of his own anyways and is truly his own individual.
Lol, that picture could be used for so many of these reactions among the KH fandom, it's hilarious.
There are so many devious events that happened but most of the fandom didn't even bat an eye while there are minor scenes that get overblown to ridiculous proportions.
Then the KH III-part of it has to be obviously locked if it's an "ultimate Ultimania" for the whole saga, as otherwise it would be full of spoilers.
One of many things that would have been helped with an earlier worldwide release of the FMs, or by including these things in the normal version from the get-go and do not even make a FM. <__<
It appears also brown ingame sometimes, especially with her KH 2-model, lol, although one might count her hair color as maroon, which is a color that grazes the boundary between brown and red anyways.
True dat, ten/eleven years in the same duds (well, at least Aqua and Ven, as Terra-Xehanort changed his duds) screams for something new. I'd especially like for Ven to get something less complicated with less layers and ditch that black/white split jacket for something more symmetrical in terms of colors while Aqua could use something with a few less ribbons all around. ;D
Yep, but that thing would need to be compiled first, and I dare assume that this would be as much of a task as building a comprehensive timeline of the series so far.
Sure, once I may find time to actually create such a template in the first place, lol.
The "shock" value of Vanitas' face was really more intended for the audience I think as Ven didn't even bat an eye, and I do not see why Aqua should be all that shocked about it. She kicked Vanitas' ass thrice and I don't doubt she'll do it a fourth time if necessary regardless what his face looks like while Sora might be initially surprised, I do not think that Vanitas having his hairstyle and face structure would make Sora hesitate so much that he won't be able to kick Vanitas' ass.
The people I can see who would get a real shock from Vanitas' appearance would be Kairi, Donald and Goofy, maybe even Naminé.
I'm hoping there isn't a "kh3 part" as its' the end of a saga and I dont really want more loose, unexplained, ends. x'Dlmao Remember the mistranslation in kh2? "why did he choose you!?" when in japanese it's "why did IT choose you!?"
That one went on for ages.
Then the KH III-part of it has to be obviously locked if it's an "ultimate Ultimania" for the whole saga, as otherwise it would be full of spoilers.
I'd love something more simple for both, the layers is just irking as you know it would annoy anybody when wearing. xD
Not if we use the timeline thread already started as a base~
Thanks. xD
I never said Ven would be shocked, after all he's done seen it. I added Aqua cause Im assuming she'll run into Sora before Van. Getting your ass handed to you dont really have much to do with faces. xD
I never said it'd make him hesitate either just a small moment of "what!?" x'D
Dont' forget Riku. (even if in his own dont-show-much-emotion way)
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