The Longest and Most Controversial Theory Thread on KHI Ever

[Raz]

Oh, goodness. Please don't quote the first post, guys. D:

i would like a summary if it's not too much to ask. i dont want to ask too much questions

You could just, well, read it, right?

 

[Dawn Rebirth]

suppousably, He is Terra's unversed, and Ansem SoD is an unversed and Gaurdian is the heartless just not Xehanort's, if not I'll look over it again.

 

[Horizon's Knight]

That is a very long yet good theory. Way to make another theory GA! :wink:

However, the explaination of Xehanort isn't the best one though. I'm not saying that Xehanort wasn't Terra's Unversed at some point. I just think that Unversed aren't whole and could never make a Heartless & Nobody. Also, the Namine and Roxas thing might have to be checked. How could Sora be whole if his B+S went into Kairi? Does this mean Kairi has two bodies now? Other then that, great theory.

 

[Dawn Rebirth]

maybe, kairi has an unversed, doubt it but hey, Graced Assain can point us, in right direction(when, he get's around to it)

 

[gelandporn]

However, the explaination of Xehanort isn't the best one though. I'm not saying that Xehanort wasn't Terra's Unversed at some point. I just think that Unversed aren't whole and could never make a Heartless & Nobody. Also, the Namine and Roxas thing might have to be checked. How could Sora be whole if his B+S went into Kairi? Does this mean Kairi has two bodies now? Other then that, great theory.

Ordinarily, no, I wouldn't say the Unversed could make a Heartless and Nobody because, as you say, they're incomplete.

But in my theory, Xehanort isn't incomplete. He uses the DS's heart. Through that, he is able to become a Nobody. The Heartless here is, of course, made from DS's heart. But it's not Ansem SoD. It's the guardian. Ansem SoD is made from MX's memories.

Kairi does not have two bodies and souls now. Namine merged with her. Namine is not Sora's body and soul, she was made from them (see my most recent discussion with Zeagal).

maybe, kairi has an unversed, doubt it but hey, Graced Assain can point us, in right direction(when, he get's around to it)

I'd guess that Kairi as well as the other PoH can't make Unversed. They can have negative emotions like sadness, undoubtedly, but darkness cannot grow from them since their hearts are pure.

 

[Dawn Rebirth]

thank you, for clearing that up Grace Assassin

 

[ZexionsGirl6]

I like this theory...I really do...it makes alot of sense.
But what I'm thinking is that Xehanort IS Terra's Unversed, and that when he lost his heart, and became Xemnas, he was...like a cross breed of being an Unversed and a Nobody...but I don't think Roxas is an Unversed, even though he and Ven are alike in appearance. And I really don't think that DiZ is an Unversed, because in the game, Ansem the Wise made DiZ as an alias.

 

[_EX]

I would be let down if, after all this, its some lame alternative.

 

[Freak-Eu]

1. post ye me!
- Anyway good theory GA, though the part of AtW/DiZ seems abit wrong to me. I would've liked u to explain why AtW/DiZ called himself Darkness in zero? If DiZ really was an unversed, why would he rename himself that?

 

[gelandporn]

1. post ye me!
- Anyway good theory GA, though the part of AtW/DiZ seems abit wrong to me. I would've liked u to explain why AtW/DiZ called himself Darkness in zero? If DiZ really was an unversed, why would he rename himself that?

There seems to be some misconception about why I differentiate between AtW and DiZ.

The Unversed of AtW isn't named DiZ because he's an Unversed (as if, because he is a different being he takes on a different name).

I am simply using the point in which AtW starts calling himself DiZ as a reference point for when I believe, with certainty, that it is no longer the real AtW speaking, but his Unversed. The reason he takes on that alias is because, as he said, he is "darkness in zero." He isn't intentionally renaming himself because he knows that he's an Unversed. In fact, I've been suggesting he's unaware that he is not the real AtW.

The reason I use this as a reference point is because, when he starts calling himself DiZ, it is at that point that we know he has been consumed by anger and hate and has gained the power of darkness.

So when I say that
AtW = whole being
and
DiZ = Unversed

I say that for the sake of convenience.

 

[Freak-Eu]

Aight i got it, thanks Ones again great theory

 

[Ophan]

The part about ATW is probably the most confusing. I can identify with everything else said, especially with the effort you have put into it. That in itself is obvious through reading this theory, though i doubt most or perhaps few is true i congratulate on your effort. Returning to the confusion on ATW, i don't see how it's possible that he became an unverse, and although it's been known that they are born, or created from negative emotions, it was never said that they had become existent from the transition of negative emotions. This is what happened to ATW, as he had filled himself with hatred for what his apprentices had done to him. Over time he did grow closer to darkness, but his acceptance, and calmness from fear of that darkness allowed him to utilize those powers of darkness that had driven through him. He even changed his form to hide himself from his apprentices, and called himself DiZ (Darkness in Zero). I don't see any form of creation towards an unverse in this.

 

[aybqii]

woah... that was really long...... but good

 

[Keybladesparan]

Dude you blew my mind....the only thing i ask u is what did MX want with Ven? If Terra was feeling the same way as Ven was to have an Unversed, why not go for Terra since he has more darkness inside him than Ven does?

 

[gelandporn]

-Massive Bumping-

Yes.

I couldn't help it. We see that the apprentices look the exact same as their Nobodies and wham! First thought that entered my head.

All of a sudden, identical beings are popping up everywhere.
And with the concept of replicas having become relevant again in Days...
I'd be ignoring what's right in front of me.

There's Ventus, and the Nobody Roxas. Both look the same.
Even and Vexen, same.
Dilan and Xaldin, same.
Aeleus and Lexaeus, same.

Replicas, replicas, replicas, replicas.
If my theory was right about Roxas, then it sure as hell would be odd that it wouldn't apply to the rest of them, the more you think about it. (Ienzo and Braig, I'll hold off on. They'll probably look the same so that this applies to them too, but yeah).

I'm of course not denying the possibility that, for example, they really fucking dropped the ball on the somebodies and just made them look the same for no reason, but, again, I think we'd all like to think that there's more to it than neglect on Nomura's behalf.

But I know what's bothering you.
You accept the possibility of Roxas being an Unversed because he's a "special" Nobody, his heart status is questionable, and all sorts of mysteries. We don't know what's going on with him, so this fits.

But the others? Going against established canon and making things more complicated?
Well, you're right. It's why I don't really like it either. Because it makes things about Organization XIII seem, in retrospect, stupid.

Now, apparently, it was comprised half of Unversed and half of Nobodies.
I'm not really going to argue against this being distasteful- it is.

Nonetheless, on to its viability.
The biggest speed bump in this addition to the theory is obviously that Vexen, Xaldin, and Lexaeus were portrayed as Nobodies. I don't think there's any doubting that Vexen, for example, considered himself a Nobody.

-DAYS SPOILERS-
And with Vexen spearheading the replica program, it makes this concept seem unlikely. If Vexen was off making replicas, and he considered himself a Nobody, yet he was ACTUALLY a replica.... wouldn't that be... unfitting?

The best explanation I can give you is this:
The apprentices were attempting to cast off their hearts, as it is said. You'll notice in my theory that there is no difference behind the creation of the Unversed and the Heartless- at least, how they begin to form. It starts off with darkness in the heart.

And, as I said, I'm not really sure why the Unversed disappeared (though I've speculated it is because of differences in the nature of darkness). But we know that around the time of the apprentices' experimentation is the transitional period between the Unversed and Heartless.

Catching my drift? The apprentices (excluding Xehanort) became Unversed, not Nobodies. They had no idea there was a difference. Only in hindsight, after seeing other Nobodies, did they classify themselves as Nobodies.
After all, Vexen poses the idea that Xion herself may be considered a "special nobody."
The line between the two beings is blurred.
And, as we all know, it wouldn't be the first time that we found out someone was something other than what we originally thought.

And it would also provide an answer to Nomura brushing off the fate of the apprentices' heartless- rather than "probably" being off "somewhere" as normal heartless, they don't have heartless- they are currently in a state of sleep.
Or at least they were in a state of sleep.

 

[Pianoajd2]

Wow. Just...wow.

Does this mean that Unversed also can't have emotion? Or is it that the apprentices believe that their "feelings" are fake, but are actually, truly real ones?

If Unversed can't have emotion...it would mean they were hybrids of the two later-existing creatures.

What I mean is, going by your theory, Unversed are created like heartless, but have characteristics of Nobodies.

'Tis interesting to think about.

And to conclude, a question. You may have answred it already, but do you think Unversed contain (or can contain, in special cases) hearts?

 

[Azrael]

Wow. Just...wow.

Does this mean that Unversed also can't have emotion? Or is it that the apprentices believe that their "feelings" are fake, but are actually, truly real ones?

If Unversed can't have emotion...it would mean they were hybrids of the two later-existing creatures.

What I mean is, going by your theory, Unversed are created like heartless, but have characteristics of Nobodies.

'Tis interesting to think about.

And to conclude, a question. You may have answred it already, but do you think Unversed contain (or can contain, in special cases) hearts?

One question how could Xehanort a supposed Unversed can produce Ansem SoD, another Unversed? It doesn't make sense.

 

[Pianoajd2]

One question how could Xehanort a supposed Unversed can produce Ansem SoD, another Unversed? It doesn't make sense.

Did I say something about that? Why'd you quote my post.

Anyways, I think the answer to your question lies in the answer to another question.

Is it possible for an Unversed to have a heart? If so, it's possible for an Unversed to create a Heartless and Nobody. If not...

 

[Azrael]

Did I say something about that? Why'd you quote my post.

Anyways, I think the answer to your question lies in the answer to another question.

Is it possible for an Unversed to have a heart? If so, it's possible for an Unversed to create a Heartless and Nobody. If not...

We don't know anything about unversed except that negative emotion creates them. A specific one.

Unversed may have hearts. It would explain those hearts in Ansem's lab.

 

[Dogenzaka]

Basically, the premise is when the Ansem the Wise was banished let his dark emotions consume him and create an Unverse (DiZ); DiZ just didn't know he WAS an Unbirth. Works for me.

Sounds good to me. DiZ was a grumpy ass anyway.