The Longest and Most Controversial Theory Thread on KHI Ever

[Shinra]

amazing theory man.....very nice....

 

[xjeezlouisx]

I believe this theory, especially how the pictures are like a pattern.
It makes so much sense.

EDIT: about the Roxas thing, what if it wasnt Sora? what if it was Kairi?
Like Kairi to Ven, what if He was hurt and she had some sort of power to heal him... like he died blah blah blah...
I dont know..

 

[gelandporn]

That was the most impressive and well thought theories i have read in a long time. Good job!! Although i hope bbs doesnt make it that confusing to understand

I think that when you take the core idea away from it (and remove all of my rambling about evidence, specifics, and whatnot), it's pretty simple to understand.

An Unversed is dark memories made from negative emotion. They take memories away from the original being to assume the role of a replica.

And copypasta to the six examples provided.

EDIT: about the Roxas thing, what if it wasnt Sora? what if it was Kairi?
Like Kairi to Ven, what if He was hurt and she had some sort of power to heal him... like he died blah blah blah...
I dont know..

Not sure what you're saying.

 

[xjeezlouisx]

Whatever piece of Ven that was in Sora (let's say Ven's memories since it would make sense that Sora's memories and Ven's memories were together after they had been released), went to Roxas. So Roxas=Sora's memories + Ven's [insert whatever].

In this quote you said Ven Memories were inserted in Sora? Somehow.
well what if Namine created Roxas somehow...
She can control Sora's Memories, What if Sora saw Ven.. Like a glimpse or even spoke to him.(This is consider somewhat of a Memory, like a Past Memory.)
She searched through his memory decided to pick that figure and BAM, you have Roxas that looks like Ven.

 

[Muse]

But surely there's a limit to what Namine can and can't do. :/

I'm not sure if Namine would be capable of creating a being out of memories without the help of Castle Oblivion or something else.

 

[_Omni_]

Yes this shit really does make sense. You people and your theorizing. The ones like GA scare me because this could very well be the answer to what the unversed are and this could also be a real plot twist. Sounds like sum stuff Nomura would think up. For now IMO this blows most of the other theories off the map.

 

[OmniChaos]

MX is the Unversed of an unknown character.

Fifty bucks says it's MVAT.

(otherwise, well, it would certainly be one ludicrous coincidence that they have the same name, yet only one of them has meaning).

I don't know...
It's obvious that the two anagrams refer to MX, but, seeing as how Xehanort only remembered the name "Xehanort" (and I assumed he believed it to be his), I, personally, don't find it too far of a stretch to think "No Heart" and "Another" (well, maybe "another") don't actually refer to Xehanort himself.

Otherwise, Sora would have forgotten about Kairi after Xemnas sampled them and created Xion, which we know is not the case.

Too bad, eh?

Thus it follows that, perhaps, Xehanort (the Terra replica) absorbed MX, thus stopping MX from doing what he meant to do.

What if he doesn't stop MX? What if MX succeeded in obtaining a heart before the two "fused" (absorbed, combined, whatever. Using the term loosely.) together?

I don’t really care that it’s been established that Xehanort’s Heartless... is a Heartless. We know that he is a one of a kind. No Heartless has taken on his kind of existence, not even Sora (Sora was not a Heartless when he was restored by Kairi). Right off the bat, Xehanort’s Heartless retained a humanoid form and sense of self.

I love seeing other people say this.

If you need evidence that Xehanort’s Heartless is actually comprised of memories, look no further than CoM.

Here's the problem I have with XH being memories:
When a Heartless is destroyed, the stolen heart rejoins with body. In the case that the body became a Nobody, the heart resorts to a state of suspension, waiting for its respective Nobody to be defeated so that it may become a whole being again. We've learned this much from Nomura, correct?

Now, if XH is actually MX's memories and not, in some shape or form, Xehanort's heart (or if Xehanort does not even have a heart), then there would be no heart waiting in suspension for its respective Nobody to be defeated so that it may become whole.

Even though I believe memories can, to an extent, act as a sort of substitute for a heart, I do not think memories would be able to act as a heart in this instence.

One more thing to add regarding Xehanort’s Heartless.
DS seems to be a part of MX in some way.
And the Guardian seems to be a part of Xehanort’s Heartless in some way.
I say that, when Xehanort absorbed Master Xehanort, DS was still “inside” MX. And DS has a real heart. So, when the memories of MX were released from Xehanort, DS’s heart was released as well. And that heart became a Heartless. In other words, it’s an unlikely pairing. Xehanort’s Heartless is an Unversed, the Guardian is the DS’s Heartless.

I have to disagree.
I think the connection between XH and the Guardian runs deeper then that.
I would sooner say the Guardian is the darkness from within XH (who I believe to be a free-floating heart, like Sora was), which would technically make it Xehanort "Heartless" in a way.

As a side note, it should be interesting to point out that, if this theory is true, Xehanort isn’t coming back. The main antagonist, in the future, will be someone else.

Which is the main reason I do not support this segment of your theory. How I see it, removing Xehanort as the main antagonist would be just about the same as removing Sora as the main protagonist.

However, one of Xemnas' lines before the final battle, "I cannot allow it to end this way, not yet", leads me to believe that Xemnas actually intended on being defeated, only that he was not yet ready to, and the only reason I can think that he would want to be defeated is if he knew that he would become whole again.

VAT had longer theories. :v

Shit, VAT's theories put everyone else's to shame length-wise.

 

[Goldpanner]

Holy crap. I get the feeling I've been spoiled before even the Japanese version came out XD I like it, I like it heaps. I especially like the DiZ being an unversed. It makes a lot of sense, and i think how he didn't know he was the fake is similar to how repliku didn't know he was the fake until it was proved to him. It can happen! Awesome. Yes.

Just gonna chuck this out randomly, GA, cause you are really smart and can explain it:
I was hearing that Ventus was a PoH for some reason? Why were people saying that? And could that have any connection to Kairi/Sora/Roxas/Namine <---that thing?

Also. So if Roxas is an unversed, then he'd have a memory heart thing, right? Does this have any connection to how he could make Axel 'feel as though he had a heart'? And even cry in that FM+ scene?

 

[gelandporn]

Fifty bucks says it's MVAT.

Yeah, that's what I've been thinking since my "Revelation of the Unbirth" thread.

I don't know...
It's obvious that the two anagrams refer to MX, but, seeing as how Xehanort only remembered the name "Xehanort" (and I assumed he believed it to be his), I, personally, don't find it too far of a stretch to think "No Heart" and "Another" (well, maybe "another") don't actually refer to Xehanort himself.

I actually thought people would have a hard time thinking "No Heart" and "Another" applied to MX. When Nomura mentioned the anagrams' significance, he was talking about them in reference to Xehanort (well before we even knew about MX).

As I said, though, we all know that the fact that they have the same name isn't some happenstance. It's not like a common name that we could dismiss.
So if we are to admit that the same-name deal isn't a coincidence, then it would follow that the meaning behind that name applies to both.

It might not be for the same reason (as my theory says) but "No Heart" and "Another" must have their significance for both men.

I love seeing other people say this.

Hm?

Here's the problem I have with XH being memories:
When a Heartless is destroyed, the stolen heart rejoins with body. In the case that the body became a Nobody, the heart resorts to a state of suspension, waiting for its respective Nobody to be defeated so that it may become a whole being again. We've learned this much from Nomura, correct?

Now, if XH is actually MX's memories and not, in some shape or form, Xehanort's heart (or if Xehanort does not even have a heart), then there would be no heart waiting in suspension for its respective Nobody to be defeated so that it may become whole.

Even though I believe memories can, to an extent, act as a sort of substitute for a heart, I do not think memories would be able to act as a heart in this instence.

So what is it exactly that you have a problem with here? That, because Xehanort's Heartless is actually memories, then it would not resort to a state of suspension when defeated (and thus Xemnas, when defeated, would not return to his original self)?

Because that's exactly what I'm saying. You seem to be under the impression that Xemnas and Xehanort's Heartless have to recombine. Not in this case. That is something that (like the idea of Roxas automatically being Sora's body and soul) people take for granted without scrutinizing.

What would happen in my theory, then?
Xehanort's Heartless, at the end of CoM, promises to return. His darkness still lingers in Riku's heart. Meaning, accordingly, that the memories are still there (which he can use to manifest in XH's form).

But there's the issue of the AtW explosion. How exactly did it affect Riku?
He no longer belongs to the dark realm, so my guess would be that MX's memories were released. And if they're released, where would they go?

Not back to Xehanort (the Terra replica), that's for sure (who was, at this time, the Nobody Xemnas).

Well, where else would the memories go of a vanquished Unversed than back to the original? That is, MX's memories, released from Riku's heart, went back to whoever the original of MX was.

I have to disagree.
I think the connection between XH and the Guardian runs deeper then that.
I would sooner say the Guardian is the darkness from within XH (who I believe to be a free-floating heart, like Sora was), which would technically make it Xehanort "Heartless" in a way.

You and I are of a more similar line of thinking on this than you'd think.

The Guardian, we can see, is a shadow branching off from the feet of Xehanort's Heartless.
It's like he's Xehanort's inner darkness. Yet we can see he is an independent being (which would immediately remind me of Anti Sora in KH1).

Look at the DS. He splits out of MX (and is a mirror image) and turns into a dark being. Like, you know, a reflection of MX's inner darkness.
I'm not quite saying that DS is a natural part of MX. If he's his apprentice, then he's his own man as I see it.

However, I'm saying that, like with the Guardian and XH, DS's connection to MX runs deeper than a superficial level.

How deep? Who knows.
I don't really think it's my place to theorize about that, but, for example, maybe MX's ability to "absorb" (like the other replicas) is kicking in here. Not entirely absorbing the DS (otherwise I doubt we'd be seeing him), but something along those lines whereupon MX could use DS's heart. And, in that respect, their darkness becomes intermingled.

Which is the main reason I do not support this segment of your theory. How I see it, removing Xehanort as the main antagonist would be just about the same as removing Sora as the main protagonist.

And conversely there are plenty of people bitching about being sick of the forms of Xehanort in each game.
It could go either way, really.

There can be a happy medium, though.
If "Xehanort" is not the real villain, who is?
One very real possibility in my theory is the original of MX... whoever that is. So, in a sense, the main antagonist would be connected to Xehanort.

I was hearing that Ventus was a PoH for some reason? Why were people saying that? And could that have any connection to Kairi/Sora/Roxas/Namine <---that thing?

Mm. Not really in a position to say.
Until we know more, I'm of the mind that there's just the seven PoH. That there are seven who are born with some sort of inherent predisposition to light which can be activated. If more people could become pure hearted, it would ruin the premise of the legend.

Still, it's not impossible.
I mean, I talked about "light" memories as well. Maybe Ven made a "light" Unversed (seeing as how Roxas can use light). But... that wouldn't really make sense with the negative emotions.

Also. So if Roxas is an unversed, then he'd have a memory heart thing, right? Does this have any connection to how he could make Axel 'feel as though he had a heart'? And even cry in that FM+ scene?

Honestly, I did think about that. At first I thought about the idea of Axel being an Unversed, which in turn made me wonder about the entire Organization. That's ridiculous though.
Nothing about any of the other members besides Xemnas and Roxas being "Special Nobodies."

The best explanation I can offer is from my previous theory:

Can these replicas feel? I'm sure they can since they do have a "heart," though, as even Repliku has said, there's an overwhelming sense of feeling "empty."

It brings light to the condition of the Nobodies as well.
As Nomura has said, "In order to assume a new existence, information about their own personal circumstances must first be gathered. A Nobody's main characteristic is that without a heart they use memories to form the parts of a personality and emotions. For them, memories have become an essential element."

He has recently brought up the question of whether or not all Nobodies (not just Roxas) have hearts in the Days Ultimania. I think we have our answer. They don't. None of them do. But the memories can act as a "heart," like with the replicas. The stronger their ties are with the chain of memories, the stronger they can feel. Rather than feigning emotion on a superficial level based on memory or trying to reject those feelings altogether, some Nobodies, when having a bond with their heart through memories that tie the two together, can experience emotion. It explains Axel. And Namine.

 

[El Coqu?]

just make this a sticky lol.

ok but really I cant see some of this. Yes Repliku and Xion are made of memories. Roxas is a nobody but born of special case. Personally I doubt the Terra=Xehanort theory. DS we assume is the monster filed with darkness and MX wishes for someone to defeat him so I can see more a Terra+DS=Xehanort. And Ven is "erased" so what that means right now we dont know

 

[Goldpanner]

Still, it's not impossible.
I mean, I talked about "light" memories as well. Maybe Ven made a "light" Unversed (seeing as how Roxas can use light). But... that wouldn't really make sense with the negative emotions.

Maybe Ven didn't make a light unversed so much as, he had a lot of light in him, so some of that light was already transfered into his memory-sucking unversed before he got erased/whatever happened to him?

Honestly, I did think about that. At first I thought about the idea of Axel being an Unversed, which in turn made me wonder about the entire Organization. That's ridiculous though.
Nothing about any of the other members besides Xemnas and Roxas being "Special Nobodies."

When I think about it... all the human shaped nobodies are kind of special, aren't they. They have eyes, for one, which was important to your theory. But then again, it was said that unversed aren't meant to be around anymore, and thirteen is a big number. I mean, I could kind of understand about the original six and roxas, because weird shit happened to them. But numbers seven through twelve seemed to have done it randomly on their own, which is stretching it...

Anyway, I think Nomura has pretty much said your theory to be true when he acted all evasive about Roxas having a heart.

 

[Chrono Mizaki]

And conversely there are plenty of people bitching about being sick of the forms of Xehanort in each game.
It could go either way, really.

I know I am. I'm in support of this theory without this bit. But with this bit, it makes me support the theory even more as I believe Xehanort did his bit and should be left as a person that people still remember [and fear] as he could still influence anyone to this day frpm the grave. Like this unknown person who could've spawned Master Xehanort.

Which is the main reason I do not support this segment of your theory. How I see it, removing Xehanort as the main antagonist would be just about the same as removing Sora as the main protagonist.

Then you have a strange way of seeing things. All I can say is that Sora nor Xehanort defines Kingdom Hearts. If there's a lack of Xehanort in upcoming KH games that's based after II, then all support to them. They could use that special time to come up with a superior villain instead of driving an character like Xehanort with a excellent backstory and motive... being driven into the ground.

I don't care. KH =/= Xehanort or Sora.

 

[Zeagal]

Well reading that had to be one of the most fun experiences I've had here. I was slightly disappointed from your Roxas and Namine birth section though. It was those questions at the end you couldn't quite answer that did it, but the rest of it is all good. It was amazing how well it all tied together and I would believe and expect at least parts of this to be true even though I'm still somewhat hoping for something to happen with the light emotions you know since Unversed grow out of the negative ones. There's just so many angles on this though that can make it hard to digest in a textual format because you have this all tieing into Keyblades most likely and then there's the Beings with Hearts of Pure Light and so on. Just thanks. That's about all that's left to say...Thanks.

Edit: one more thing actually, I found it a bit odd you avoided explaining the possibility of MX being the Unverse of MTAV. Oh and I also loved where you said that if your theory is true that the future antagonist would not be Xehanort. I just can't figure out who it might be...since Xehanort is in a way the Unversed of an Unversed....so MTAV?

 

[Thrazakul]

A well-written theory with enough evidence to almost tempt me to accept this as truth. I think our build-up of theories here in the forums constantly allows us to slowly draw ourselves ever closer to the truth. A few questions remain unanswered: MX's motive and Kingdom Hearts(You still can't disregard Kingdom Hearts. It was absent in your theory. But then, if your theory is correct, then Kingdom Hearts would not be required.)

Very well-written regarding the part of DiZ. Interestingly enough, the D and the Z of 'DiZ' are the alphabetical opposites of W and A respectively. And the W and A are part of AtW from Ansem the Wise. D is the fourth letter from the beginning of the Alphabet and W is the fourth letter from the ending of the Alphabet. A is the first letter of the Alphabet and Z is the last. See where I'm going with this? So basically, if you reverse 'AtW,' reverse the first and last letter, and take out the t and put in an i, you get 'DiZ.' Quite interesting, I think. All the more to support your theory, or at least part of it.

Which is the main reason I do not support this segment of your theory. How I see it, removing Xehanort as the main antagonist would be just about the same as removing Sora as the main protagonist.

Which is exactly why Sora's not the main character in BBS, right?

 

[gelandporn]

Well reading that had to be one of the most fun experiences I've had here. I was slightly disappointed from your Roxas and Namine birth section though.

I know, it leaves a lot to be desired. I felt that trying to answer those questions, though, would just be my own rationalization. I believe Key of Valor had some reasonable ideas about, for instance, why Namine ages (under the assumption that she was made from Sora's body and soul), but that's neither here nor there.

Edit: one more thing actually, I found it a bit odd you avoided explaining the possibility of MX being the Unverse of MTAV. Oh and I also loved where you said that if your theory is true that the future antagonist would not be Xehanort. I just can't figure out who it might be...since Xehanort is in a way the Unversed of an Unversed....so MTAV?

Well, I had mentioned the possibility of it being MTAV in my last topic and felt there wasn't much more to say on the matter. Other than knowing he exists, we know absolutely nothing about MTAV.

Plus, I'm leaving it open to other possibilities as well. If the theory is right, MX could be the Unversed of someone we don't even know about.

Still, if we see MTAV appear at the beginning of BbS and he has some sort of uncanny resemblance to MX, well, there we go.

A well-written theory with enough evidence to almost tempt me to accept this as truth. I think our build-up of theories here in the forums constantly allows us to slowly draw ourselves ever closer to the truth. A few questions remain unanswered: MX's motive and Kingdom Hearts(You still can't disregard Kingdom Hearts. It was absent in your theory. But then, if your theory is correct, then Kingdom Hearts would not be required.)

You guys are really flattering me more than I ought to be, and I appreciate the positive feedback, but don't forget to keep a skeptical eye on the matter.

As for Kingdom Hearts, there's the whole point about MX wanting a real heart.
Funny you should mention that, though, because I was thinking about your Original Kingdom Hearts theory.
I think it fits better as an explanation of why the Heartless/Nobodies come along.

Very well-written regarding the part of DiZ. Interestingly enough, the D and the Z of 'DiZ' are the alphabetical opposites of W and A respectively. And the W and A are part of AtW from Ansem the Wise. D is the fourth letter from the beginning of the Alphabet and W is the fourth letter from the ending of the Alphabet. A is the first letter of the Alphabet and Z is the last. See where I'm going with this? So basically, if you reverse 'AtW,' reverse the first and last letter, and take out the t and put in an i, you get 'DiZ.' Quite interesting, I think. All the more to support your theory, or at least part of it.

Interesting factoid.
Though I believe it was confirmed that "DiZ" was originally derived from "Disney."
Hard to pass up as a coincidence nonetheless.

 

[Thrazakul]

As for Kingdom Hearts, there's the whole point about MX wanting a real heart.
Funny you should mention that, though, because I was thinking about your Original Kingdom Hearts theory.
I think it fits better as an explanation of why the Heartless/Nobodies come along.

Ah, yes. It could very well be the reason they do come along. Only thing I'm trying to figure out is why and how Kingdom Hearts splits...maybe something to do with MX. But hey, who's to say that both of our theories can't be right? As far as I know, this theory of yours(You need to come up with a better name for it though lol) does not contradict my Original Kingdom Hearts theory. In fact, if we were to combine both of our theories together, I'm sure it would open new pathways to even more answers and theories, based on the most elite knowledge of the Kingdom Hearts series.

Interesting factoid.
Though I believe it was confirmed that "DiZ" was originally derived from "Disney."
Hard to pass up as a coincidence nonetheless.

I see, I was under the influence that the Disney reference was already used for Yen Sid, but I suppose I can't rule that out as a possibility. Concerning names though, it's gotten all too common to have hidden meanings in names, especially concerning Ansem the Wise and Xehanort.

Oh, before I forget:

For all your hard work and effort to make this theory sound very plausible!

 

[Ventux]

This is impressive, but frankly, we lack substancial information about the game which will only be shown once it's released. Hence why I don't make or deeply discuss theories.
There could be plenty of unknown elements or factors.
That said, there is probably some truth to this theory.

 

[Zeagal]

I know, it leaves a lot to be desired. I felt that trying to answer those questions, though, would just be my own rationalization. I believe Key of Valor had some reasonable ideas about, for instance, why Namine ages (under the assumption that she was made from Sora's body and soul), but that's neither here nor there.

That's kind of where convenience comes into play when holding it up to the more widely believed idea that Namine is scraps. The reason she can age makes sense when you see that Kairi is living on as a whole being seemingly in sync with Namine's own growth. I suppose also there could be a combination of your idea and the widely accepted one. I mean Namine doesn't need to have Sora's body and soul to be made from it. Did you already say something about that? I'm sorry if you did in your op, it's just...so long.

Heeeyyyy I just noticed. This theory doesn't cause much friction with what I had come up with sort of...a while ago. Just another good thing about it.

 

[Abbot]

Interesting factoid.
Though I believe it was confirmed that "DiZ" was originally derived from "Disney."
Hard to pass up as a coincidence nonetheless.

I thought it was confirmed to be an acronym for 'Darkness in Zero'.

Cause, y'know. He was banished to a world of nothing, Zero, and was left with Hate and Anger, and Revenge. Darkness. Dark memories? It could actually work for your theory. Kind of.

 

[White Mushroom]

wow that no matter how many times i read it blows me away. I love it!