The Foretellers True Names?



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Alpha Baymax

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When I found out about the origins of the Fortellers names, I found it very intriguing that they were named after the Seven Deadly Sins. However, upon research in Wikipedia and comparing the Fortellers to Organization XIII, I came to the conclusion that the names that the Fortellers are currently known by was passed down by the Master of Masters. In layman terms, it's not their real names, rather, I believe that the Foreteller's real names are based of the Seven Heavenly Virtues.

Ava = Caritas (Carita)
Aced = Industraia (Ustra)
Invi = Humanitas (Manita)
Gula = Temperantia (Empera)
Ira = Patientia (Entia)
 

Dandelion

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Chirithy says that the Master of Masters gave the Foretellers new names, which could mean that the names we know them by aren't their original names OR that their new names were their union names.
 

Muke

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I just feel like this is kind of stretched. But heh, who knows, really.
Also what Osprey said
 

Chuman

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Chirithy says that the Master of Masters gave the Foretellers new names, which could mean that the names we know them by aren't their original names OR that their new names were their union names.
well who's to say those names aren't their only names? as evidenced when roxas was born, xemnas gave him his name, and iirc UX opens with a station of awakening where you pick your union and name, before getting a chirithy of your own. is it possible that this is when they are "born", so to speak?
 

Muke

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Idk, giving them two names just sounds really nonsensical to me.
 

Chuman

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Idk, giving them two names just sounds really nonsensical to me.
i agree, which is why if the MoM gave them their names, its worth thinking that they were given the names at birth some way or another.
 

Sephiroth0812

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Idk, giving them two names just sounds really nonsensical to me.
What exactly is "nonsensical" about having a birth name and later gaining a second name by someone else which is exactly what is implied with the Foretellers?

As such except if one wants to insinuate that the Foretellers were somehow bred inside a laboratory by the MoM like Chirithy it stands to reason that they did have different names before the ones given to them by the MoM.
 

Muke

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Whatever, I still don't see how Baymax came up with this idea, because there are slim to none implications about their names not being their real names.
 

Dandelion

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because there are slim to none implications about their names not being their real names.
Once again, it's actually explicitly stated in the game and it is canon that they have two names. Now, that could just mean they have given names and union names.

Ava for example could have her real name as Ava and the name the Master gave to her could be Vulpes, OR Ava could have an entirely different true name that we don't know about and Ava is her bequeathed name that MoM gave her.
 

Muke

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Once again, it's actually explicitly stated in the game and it is canon that they have two names. Now, that could just mean they have given names and union names.

Ava for example could have her real name as Ava and the name the Master gave to her could be Vulpes, OR Ava could have an entirely different true name that we don't know about and Ava is her bequeathed name that MoM gave her.
Okay then.

@Baymax, you said you compared their names to ORGXIII, I wonder what you meant? Like… which Foreteller's name did you compare with which ORG Member and all. (don't get me wrong, I'm curious)
 

BlackOsprey

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Once again, it's actually explicitly stated in the game and it is canon that they have two names. Now, that could just mean they have given names and union names.

Ava for example could have her real name as Ava and the name the Master gave to her could be Vulpes, OR Ava could have an entirely different true name that we don't know about and Ava is her bequeathed name that MoM gave her.
While I guess it's a possibility, it still feels overly convoluted and kind of... pointless? And if Ava was the name bequeathed to her, then why would she also be known as Vulpes? Where did that come from?
 

Chuman

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While I guess it's a possibility, it still feels overly convoluted and kind of... pointless? And if Ava was the name bequeathed to her, then why would she also be known as Vulpes? Where did that come from?
^^

why give them names with a scheme as well as nicknames based on their union with a scheme, only to make them both fake names and add a third name scheme as their real names?

that's worse then the xehanort-ception
 

Sephiroth0812

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While I guess it's a possibility, it still feels overly convoluted and kind of... pointless? And if Ava was the name bequeathed to her, then why would she also be known as Vulpes? Where did that come from?
Since when is "Vulpes" an actual name of the person?
Vulpes, Unicornis etc. are just the names of the unions, not of the Foretellers themselves.

Before the audience knew their actual names (which in fact are the ones given to them by the MoM, themed after the seven deadly sins and the ones where the MoMs nicknames are derived from) they were called the "Vulpes Foreteller" or "Leopardos Foreteller" but that is not a name, that's a title and was used only as a matter of convenience since their names weren't known.

Fully spelled out it reads as "Foreteller of the Vulpes Union" or "Foreteller of the Leopardos Union".
Yet since audiences are lazy and like to abbreviate things (such as always saying "Terranort" or "Venitas" when the actual official names are "Terra-Xehanort" and "Ventus-Vanitas") it was always just shortened to "Vulpes Foreteller" or "Leopardos Foreteller" or even just the animal names, substituting the Union names for their actual names before they were revealed.

I don't remember it being explicitly stated anywhere that the union names were actually also the names of the Foretellers as persons. Seriously, how should that work with Luxu who doesn't have a union? Is "6th Apprentice" or "the 6th" his name because the fandom used to designate him as such?
Just because the fandom widely called them by that before knowing their names doesn't actually make it a canon thing.

As Tinny stated, it was specifically pointed out that the MoM gave them new names and since Vulpes, Leopardos etc. are the union names it is not really that wrong to assume that they had different names before the MoM decided to name them after the seven deadly sins.
 

Alpha Baymax

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Whatever, I still don't see how Baymax came up with this idea, because there are slim to none implications about their names not being their real names.
With that logic, why is Lea still referred to as Axel even after he’s became a somebody? And why is Ansem the Wise also reffered to as DiZ? Having two names isn’t non-sensical, quite the contrary, it’s starting to become the norm.

Okay then.

@Baymax, you said you compared their names to ORGXIII, I wonder what you meant? Like… which Foreteller's name did you compare with which ORG Member and all. (don't get me wrong, I'm curious)
It’s the naming convention that I compared. Let’s take Xigbar for example. Before he became a nobody, he was known as Braig. He was only called Xigbar because Xemnas gave that name as a Xehanort vessel when he became a nobody.
So lets apply a similar logic with Ira as an example. Before he became a Forteller, he may have been known as Entia, however, once he became a Forteller, the Master of Masters changed his name to Ira in order to reflect his new position and responsibilities.

While I guess it's a possibility, it still feels overly convoluted and kind of... pointless? And if Ava was the name bequeathed to her, then why would she also be known as Vulpes? Where did that come from?
I’m pretty sure that Vulpes/Unicornis/Ursus/Anguis/Leopardos naming convention is just for the name of the Union and not the Union leader themselves. I don’t see that as convoluted at all.

And it’s not pointless either. Really think about it, why are neutral characters named after the Seven Deadly Sins out of all things? The usual theme for key characters is either the Sky (Sora, Ventus), Earth (Riku, Terra) and Sea (Kairi, Aqua) or something along that lines. The Foreteller’s aren’t outright villains so why name them after “evil/dark” meanings?

Plus, it only makes sense to contrast the Seven Deadly Sins to the Seven Heavenly Virtues. That’s how I came to the conclusion in the first place.

Seven Heavenly Virtue Names = Union leaders before becoming Fortellers and Union leaders.

Seven Deadly Sins Names = Union leaders after becoming Fortellers and Union leaders.
 

G-SANtos

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Ava = Caritas (Carita)
Aced = Industraia (Ustra)
Invi = Humanitas (Manita)
Gula = Temperantia (Empera)
Ira = Patientia (Entia)
Interestingly, this naming scheme would give Ava and Aced names similar to Kairi (カイリ) and Terra (テラ, Tera): カリタ (Karita) and ウストラ (Usutora). Man, you might be onto something here.

So, by this theory, Luxu's true name could be Casti, from Castitas. Unless, being the odd one out, as he has the Recusant's Sigil, his true name is Ulu, which, huh, doesn't have many interesting meanings. The one that most lifts red flags to me is that it is Hawaiian for "to be possessed by a god", which sounds like Xehanortification. It also means "supreme" or "holy" in Turkish, but most other meanings are too boring for such a mysterious character.

Now, I'm wondering if the Master of Masters also has two names, or if his name is a combination of "superbia" and "humilitas", like, say, Humiper or Miliperbi.
 
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Alpha Baymax

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Interestingly, this naming scheme would give Ava and Aced names similar to Kairi (カイリ) and Terra (テラ, Tera): カリタス (Karitasu) and ウストラ (Usutora). Man, you might be onto something here.

So, by this theory, Luxu's true name could be Casti, from Castitas. Unless, being the odd one out, as he has the Recusant's Sigil, his true name is Ulu, which, huh, doesn't have many interesting meanings. The one that most lifts red flags to me is that it is Hawaiian for "to be possessed by a god", which sounds like Xehanortification. It also means "supreme" or "holy" in Turkish, but most other meanings are too boring for such a mysterious character.

Now, I'm wondering if the Master of Masters also has two names, or if his name is a combination of "superbia" and "humilitas", like, say, Humiper or Miliperbi.
Now this is a goldmine of information that even I haven’t considered. I’m so surprised that no-one else has added to what you’ve said. I’ve never even considered the similarities with カリタス (Karitasu) and ウストラ (Usutora). And wow, the concept of Xehanortification with Luxu’s name with the world Ulu is genius. That’s some really impressive conclusions that goes beyond the Seven Heavenly Virtues: how did you conclude the way you did? I'm so intrigued!
 

Wottles

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I assumed the Unions were named after their bequeathed names and that the deadly sin names were their given names.

Cause they're not called Master Ava/Invi/Ira/Gula/Aced of the Animal theme Union.

They're referred to in the outer world as Master Vulpeus, Anguis, Unicornis, Leopardos, Ursus.

It just adds an extra layer of non necessity.
 

Alpha Baymax

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I assumed the Unions were named after their bequeathed names and that the deadly sin names were their given names.

Cause they're not called Master Ava/Invi/Ira/Gula/Aced of the Animal theme Union.

They're referred to in the outer world as Master Vulpeus, Anguis, Unicornis, Leopardos, Ursus.
That's incorrect. Chirithy, Skuld and Ephemer never refer to the Fortellers as Vulpeus, Anguis, Unicornis, Leopardos, Ursus. They always call them by their Seven Deadly Sin names. Vulpeus, Anguis, Unicornis, Leopardos, Ursus are just the name of the Unions. Nothing more than that.
 
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