[SPOILERS] Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts III

[TruestSyn]

Re: [BLANK] are not in Kingdom Hearts 3 at all

Sorry for being late to this !




Cloud never had any memories of Zack. Cloud thought that he was a big top Soldier during the Nibelhiem event, and the only memories he really has is the Nibelhiem Tragedy and the promise he made with Tifa. When Cloud is asked "How did he join Solider? " Cloud has a mental breakdown, because he has no memory of that whatsoever.


Cloud
...SOLDIER, First Class?
He shakes his head.
...SOLDIER? When did I enter SOLDIER?
He clutches his head.
How did I join SOLDIER?
He falls to his knees.
Why... why can't I remember?
I'm... I'm...



Cloud only remembered his promise to Tifa and Nibelhiem. I also don't remember Zack being upset that Tifa got injured and bridal carried her to the side during Nibelhiem lol. Cloud has got some of his memories confused with Zack. That's all.


Still don't believe me ? Aerith. Cloud has no idea who Aerith is. None. Whatsoever. Zero. Zip. If he thought he was Zack, and/or had Zack's memories, he would for sure have memories of Aerith. Instead, Aerith is just a big stranger to him. It's even debatable if Cloud ever even had feelings for Aerith, like Zack did, but that's a whole either different debate, and let's noooooooot gooooooo theeeeere pleeeeeeeeease.




No, he wasn't. He was shy and frustrated because he was a social outcast, and got into fights. Gloomy he wasn't. Cloud was shy, frustrated and jealous of Tifa's friends.

cloud
...I know. I'm the one that was stupid.
I really wanted to play with everyone, but I was never allowed into the group.
Then later... I began to think I was different...
That I was different from those immature kids.
That then... maybe..


cloud
Tifa was in a coma for seven days.
We all thought she wouldn't make it.
If only I could've saved her...
I was so angry... Angry at myself for my weakness.
Ever since then, I felt Tifa blamed me...
I got out of control... I'd get into fights not even caring who it was.


He was frustrated and angry. He wanted to be stronger to protect Tifa, he wanted to be popular, he wanted to be a hero like Sephiroth. Cloud couldn't- so he just went around beating people up, venting out his jealousy and frustration on other people ''better than him '', that's not gloomy. That's more like the victim becoming the bully. Young Cloud needed to watch some Gilette ads.



Again, no he wasn't- he was anxious because he had a dream that he would become a successful First Class Soldier to Tifa, and would protect her, and he failed that promise. He wasn't ''sulky'', he felt like he had failed himself and Tifa. Failing an ambition, a life goal would be a good reason to show some disappointment.


Cloud
Yeah. This is... me.
I... never made it as a member of SOLDIER.
I even left my hometown telling everyone I was going to join, but...
I was so embarrassed. I didn't want to see anyone.


He was embarrassed because he felt like a failure, because he failed to get his goals, make his dream become a reality, and that's understandable. That's not being a sulk, that's just being human.




Again, not true. We see flashbacks of young Cloud all throughout the original game, and Crisis Core exists.





Well, he's more serious about killing Sephiroth......




I'm harsh on Kingdom Hearts Cloud because it was originally supposed to be Vincent, and instead of just removing Vincent completely, they just adsorbed Cloud into Vincent's clothes and persona. Advent Children has a better reason for Cloud's brood because it's a story of a man overcoming guilt and depression. There's also the fact that being broody and edgy, used to be cool- just look at Shadow the Hedgehog, and KH Cloud/ AC Cloud used to be massively popular- so of course, they want him to be that way. The thing is- it's not 2007 anymore.

I mean, does anybody listen to Chemical Romance anymore? Except for maybe a musical nostalgic trip one Saturday night at 2 am?




Lol, no I'm not. This is frustrating because that is exactly what you are doing.





Found this here. Cloud is leaning towards the dark side, he couldn't put Vincent in, so he just copy and pasted Vincent into Cloud, basically. It wasn't just an aesthetic choice.

Also, it's Kingdom Hearts, where Squall, Aerith and Yuffie are friends lol. A Vincent vs Sephiroth fight wouldn't be too far fetched. Epsically since, you know, Vin knew his true Mother.


Question: Also, about Cloud, isn't the left-hand side of his design modelled on FFVII's Vincent?
Nomura: Yes, his left arm is in Vincent's image. This time, in this setting, Cloud is leaning towards the dark side, and I wanted to make him a bit more demon-like. And, since Vincent was exactly that kind of design, I just added it in. Although I would have liked to put Vincent in the game too.

It still seems to me that you're interpreting these things differently than I am and I'm going to go play through all of FF VII again to try and pick up on what exactly you see that makes you feel this way about him. Any and every time I play it I feel like Cloud isn't anything like how you're describing him but I'm going to pay much closer attention to those details.

That being said, you're still wrong about it "supposed to be Vincent". That quote you provide clearly shows he wanted to have Vincent too, but used Vincent's design on Cloud. Wanting him and changing him are not the same thing. He made Cloud dark and broody because he wanted him to lean towards darkness.

I don't see how or why "for being cool" would be a good excuse for them to supposedly 180 a character's personality like you're implying, but he did have some guilt in FF VII too.

Lastly, I think that there's a plan to bring scene back to 2019 so people might go back to being edgy. It will indeed be a dark time.

 

[rac7d]

If their is DLC i hope it fills in the FF friends

 

[GrumpyRoxy]

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The only FF thing it seems to exist in KH3 (excluding the Moogles and the Gummi Ship references) are statues of Cloud and Auron in Olympus.

 

[rac7d]

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The only FF thing it seems to exist in KH3 (excluding the Moogles and the Gummi Ship references) are statues of Cloud and Auron in Olympus.

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what about zack does he not matter

 

[GrumpyRoxy]

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what about zack does he not matter

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If there is a nod to his existence at all, no one found it yet, unfortunately. I hope we get to see a reference to him!

 

[Alpha Baymax]

Now that I'm back from my hiatus, I've been meaning to give my insight into the lack of Final Fantasy in this entry.

Fundamentally speaking, it was inevitable. Legally, Kingdom Hearts is owned by Disney. Square Enix just has development rights to create the games for the series, Kingdom Hearts is a licensed franchise (think of it like DuckTales or Mickey's Castle of Illusion, Disney owned properties but creatively handled by Capcom and Sega respectively).

Kingdom Hearts was initially designed to be a one-off product, with the tease of a sequel if it was successful. Clearly, it was successful, and a franchise was born. Thing is with popular franchises, they spin-out from video games into other media. The Final Fantasy characters were just incentives from Kingdom Hearts II onwards, and because Final Fantasy characters are owned by Square Enix, making them fundamental to the lore of Kingdom Hearts would be a legal nightmare. Leon, Cloud and Joshua may have been the most interactive Square Enix characters, but they do not hold the same narrative value as the original Kingdom Hearts characters.

And this is the dilemma. Kingdom Hearts is a blockbuster gaming franchise owned by Disney, and if is to expand, then it would have to let go of the Final Fantasy promotional crutch. Nomura mentioned that Final Fantasy characters are taking a backseat to flesh out the original character, and that's the only appropriate choice if Kingdom Hearts is to survive. So yeah, I expected this to occur. The thought of Sephiroth returning was laughable to me when Nomura said that he thought that consumers were fed up of seeing him. That was code for the irrelevance of Final Fantasy in the larger scheme of Kingdom Hearts.

With all that being said, DLC is likely going to happen and said DLC could feature Final Fantasy characters appearing in Twilight Town. A last hoorah for their involvement. Though personally speaking, it wouldn't have hurt to have a Final Fantasy character for Olympus, that's one tradition that I am going to miss.

 

[rac7d]

This lacks in side quest doesnt it

 

[Elysium]

I will never not be salty about that Rinoa tease going to waste.

Their seems to be a lot of things going to waste

Ain't that the truth.

Serious question: Does anyone actually feel the original characters weren't able to reach their full potential in past games because there were FF characters in Traverse Town and HB/Radiant Garden...? If anything, they made those worlds much more fun than they would've been otherwise to me (same with the TWEWY characters in 3D) and added dimension to SDG. Even Zack made Olympus Coliseum more interesting in BbS, since it only had 4 rooms and the only new thing they did with it there was show us Hercules with his teen design.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

So, do we know who the FF rep ended up being???

like I know there are dozens and dozens of FF references but is there an actual character that isn’t Moogle?

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Serious question: Does anyone actually feel the original characters weren't able to reach their full potential in past games because there were FF characters in Traverse Town and HB/Radiant Garden...? If anything, they made those worlds much more fun than they would've been otherwise to me (same with the TWEWY characters in 3D) and added dimension to SDG. Even Zack made Olympus Coliseum more interesting in BbS, since it only had 4 rooms and the only new thing they did with it there was show us Hercules with his teen design.

I seriously doubt that this is the fault of the FF character cameos.

Several of the KH original characters do not reach their full potential because Nomura doesn't diddlying use them fully. Many of the original characters have exact three possible "status" they are in:
1st trapped/captive or incapacitated due some plot demand
2nd active but only there to work through a set of predetermined drama scenes
or 3rd background decoration while either Sora or Riku do everything.

Nothing of all this has to do with the FF cameos. On the contrary, having them around would open up more possibilities for characters to reach their potential simply because there are more interaction opportunities.

EDIT:

So, do we know who the FF rep ended up being???

like I know there are dozens and dozens of FF references but is there an actual character that isn’t Moogle?

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Do statues count?
In Olympus there is a scene where both Auron and Cloud are shown as statues.

Then again though, I am only in Toybox right now so I don't know if there is anything else.
It might be possible that some of the Radiant Garden crew wrote one of the "Twiiter posts" which come up in loading screens but I dunno if those would count at all.

 

[Recon]

So, do we know who the FF rep ended up being???

like I know there are dozens and dozens of FF references but is there an actual character that isn’t Moogle?

I was under the impression it was just Verum Rex, the game Rex is playing. I could be wrong though.

 

[rac7d]

oes IN game advertisement count?

 

[Audo]

relatedly, did anyone else get the npc banter in twilight town about seifer and his gang? i've gotten it exactly once and it has never repeated again the entire time i've played

 

[SerDuncan]

relatedly, did anyone else get the npc banter in twilight town about seifer and his gang? i've gotten it exactly once and it has never repeated again the entire time i've played

yeah, I got it on my second playthrough, but honestly I don't spend a lot of time in Twlight Town, considering there's so little to do there. The NPC dialogue was really nice though, I wish there were more areas to explore with fun background dialogue like that.

 

[Vivi-gamer]

The biggest Issue I have is how in KH2 After their confrontation Cloud & Sephiroth just vanish... I really throught KH3 was going to settle this but Sephiroth isn't even offered as a Post-Game boss! - I was expecting a Collusuem Trial too, which is non existant.

The FF absence in this game was a bit too much, DDD it made sense due to the Dream Worlds, but I still felt Radiant Gardens lot (Leon, Cid. Aeirth, Yuffie) should have had minor roles.

 

[Elysium]

relatedly, did anyone else get the npc banter in twilight town about seifer and his gang? i've gotten it exactly once and it has never repeated again the entire time i've played

I heard it the first time there.

And it's completely ridiculous they didn't appear in TT.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

I heard it the first time there.

And it's completely ridiculous they didn't appear in TT.

But isn't that what the banter is about in the first place?
Giving information as to why they aren't in town currently.

 

[Vivi-gamer]

Also, I cannot believe they didn't make post game bosses out of the Dissidia Toys - I even went up and smacked them a few times to try Along with the Big Dinosaur toy that appeared in the Toy Story short which is in the same store.

 

[Elysium]

All they say is "I haven't seen Seifer's gang in a while".... Maybe they starved to death in the locked off Sandlot.

 

[DarkosOverlord]

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Seifer apparently took them to do some kind of "warrior's journey" or something