Some Thoughts about Xigbar and Young Xehanort



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kirabook

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In this theory, I ponder weird occurrences I’ve started to notice between Young Xehanort and Xigbar while chatting with my pals.


First meeting:

The first time we see Xigbar and Young Xehanort together is in the Re:Coded secret ending. Xigbar unconvincingly tells Young Xehanort how scary Xehanort/Keyblade wielders are. Xigbar wonders if Young Xehanort knows what Master Xehanort wants or what he’s planning (which apparently he doesn’t). Young Xehanort proceeds to mansplain the keyblade to Xigbar. Xigbar who is Luxu who was one of the OGs


There’s nothing super revealing in this scene even knowing that Xigbar is Luxu. It’s just hilarious that Xehanort is telling the history of MoM’s keyblade to Luxu of all people and how obvious it is that he’s putting on an act.


“Find the hearts joined to yours”:


To my knowledge, only Xigbar and Young Xehanort have told Sora to do this. None of the rest of the org members seem to care about Sora THAT much. They want him to fall to darkness, sure, but that was so he’d be a useful vessel. Whether it was him or Roxas. After some point, they obviously gave up on that though.


Why only these two? HmmmMmMmmmmm


“There’s no saving you. -insert young Xehanort’s crazy face during the final battle”

Although XIgbar only tells Sora to find the hearts joined to his once, Young Xehanort does it at LEAST twice. Once during Toy Story when his tone is low and… helpful? And again when Sora has finished saving everyone and ends up in Big Hero 6. Sora even antagonizes Xehanort and asks why he cares, but Xehanort plays it off smugly and nonchalantly.


Finally, when he’s defeated during the final battle, there’s no sad goodbyes. He’s… ecstatic that Sora’s time in this world is done.


At this point, I think Young Xehanort knew more about Sora than even Master Xehanort did. Like, maybe Xigbar used Young Xehanort to his own ends, even more than he sorta used Master Xehanort? But.. for what?


Why did these two drop hints that Sora would do anything to save his friends, encourage him to do so, and then taunt him that he did just that? I feel like it was intentional and separate from whatever Master Xehanort was doing.


“There are 7 hearts you must save.”

At the beginning of the game, there is a disembodied voice that tells Sora he must save 7 hearts. By my calculations, I think that is:


Mickey, Aqua, Ven, Riku, Donald, Goofy, Lea. That makes 7. We didn’t meet 7 Princesses this game so it can’t be them.


There are people he needed to save in a different way (Aqua, Ven, Terra, Roxas, Xion), but that’s only 5 people.


There’s also the whole situation with Kairi that is sorta a beast of it’s own, so right now, I choose to believe Mickey, Aqua, Ven, Riku, Donald, Goofy, and Lea were the 7 the voice spoke of.


Interestingly enough, when Young Xehanort was dying, he seemed already convinced that Sora would soon die. Did he assume that because Sora was already going to die after saving his 7 pals? Or did Young Xehanort know that Sora would pull the final trigger and save Kairi even though she wasn’t dead yet? How would Young Xehanort know he’d do that?


“No. This’ll take all my heart.”


Sora says this right before he starts diving to save his 7 pals. This leads me to believe even after returning and resetting everything to before Terranort wiped them out, Sora was destined to ‘die’. It was only a matter of time. That would account for Young Xehanort showing up in Big Hero 6 acting so smug and why he was even smugger after he was defeated.


Sora was always going to fade away. Saving Kairi possibly sped up the process. But he might’ve already been doomed.


Conclusion:

Someway, somehow, it was part of Xigbar’s intentions that Sora go through all of this and fade away. Xigbar’s plans with Sora were a step above whatever Xehanort was planning. Maybe?


Xigbar recruited Young Xehanort to assist in this greater priority task. I doubt he told Young Xehanort too much or who he really was. As always, Xigbar just played along and acted like a second fiddle.


This leads me also to the secret ending. “Yozora”. I’m almost positive that MoM is the one who goofily holds his hands up to the moon at the very end. If that’s the case, he is also in the TWEWY place. Right? For what reason?


Is he waiting for Sora to show up there? That’d be interesting.


Alright. Those are all my thoughts.
 

Divine Past

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I decide to look in KH2 dialogue and if Xigbar said anything interesting in respect to this,
the best I got was
"What does it matter really? Whatever his circumstances, Sora has never been able to help himself from saving people from the Heartless. It's what his pure little heart wants."
Not sure it means anything though.
 

kirabook

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I decide to look in KH2 dialogue and if Xigbar said anything interesting in respect to this,
the best I got was


Not sure it means anything though.
Oohhh, interesting catch. Again, makes it seem like Xigbar was expecting all of this from Sora? But we know that Xigbar doesn't have a Book of Prophesies right? Surely he can't actually know exactly what's going to happen. Unless MoM told him something specific and it's part of his role?
 

LostArtist

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Very interesting. Do you think they'll keep having young xehanort as part of the story even though 3 was supposed to be the end of the xehanort saga?
 

Divine Past

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Oohhh, interesting catch. Again, makes it seem like Xigbar was expecting all of this from Sora? But we know that Xigbar doesn't have a Book of Prophesies right? Surely he can't actually know exactly what's going to happen. Unless MoM told him something specific and it's part of his role?
The issue I feel is you start thinking that Xigbar knew Sora will survive the DDD abduction attempt which will seem odd and I don't believe there were any signs of it during the game.
 

kirabook

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The issue I feel is you start thinking that Xigbar knew Sora will survive the DDD abduction attempt which will seem odd and I don't believe there were any signs of it during the game.

I mean, technically Sora was always going to survive. It was just a matter of if Sora would be roped into Xehanort's hive mind situation. In fact, if Sora had become part of Xehanort's team, it would have been better for Xigbar. So I think this is evidence he doesn't know exactly what's supposed to happen, he just has a general idea.
 

Divine Past

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Oohhh, interesting catch. Again, makes it seem like Xigbar was expecting all of this from Sora? But we know that Xigbar doesn't have a Book of Prophesies right? Surely he can't actually know exactly what's going to happen. Unless MoM told him something specific and it's part of his role?
Thinking about it IDK how much you can say it was foresight from him and not just connecting some dots about Sora's personality. If you told me Sora's demise will be because he'll sacrifice himself to save his friends, I will be yea sure I can believe that.

I think the interesting point which is something you might have refer to is whether Luxu knew Sora's demise will be post keyblade war. Because I assume the MoM plan relies on that.
 

kirabook

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Thinking about it IDK how much you can say it was foresight from him and not just connecting some dots about Sora's personality. If you told me Sora's demise will be because he'll sacrifice himself to save his friends, I will be yea sure I can believe that.

I think the interesting point which is something you might have refer to is whether Luxu knew Sora's demise will be post keyblade war. Because I assume the MoM plan relies on that.
Yeah, I think that's the crux of the theory. The one thing Luxu might've known is that Sora will 'die' after or during the keyblade war, maybe fulfilling some kind of requirement for his role to be complete. Everything else is just sketchy details.
 

FudgemintGuardian

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Very interesting. Do you think they'll keep having young xehanort as part of the story even though 3 was supposed to be the end of the xehanort saga?
The end of the Xehanort saga would technically just mean that Xehanort is no longer the driving antagonistic force of the plot, but as Xehanort and Xehanort adjacent characters are kinda dead at the moment, I can't see YX appear due to the time travel rules unless Nomura does some shenanigans.
 

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I think this is Luxu pulling a MoM: knowing full world what the future holds, but all thanks to deeply understanding Sora's inner organic logic. I now have this theory that Luxu groomed Sora into an universal driving force in order to make his plans flow into the direction he wants it to.
 

Sora2016

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Yeah, it is clear Young Xehanort knew something. So Luxu/Xigbar recruiting him makes sense to me. I hope they might explain it in a flashback or exposition from Xigbar instead of YX actually coming back again though. I really just want all the Xehanort's to be gone since we are adding almost all the UX characters to the cast now
 

Sephiroth0812

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Yeah, it is clear Young Xehanort knew something. So Luxu/Xigbar recruiting him makes sense to me. I hope they might explain it in a flashback or exposition from Xigbar instead of YX actually coming back again though. I really just want all the Xehanort's to be gone since we are adding almost all the UX characters to the cast now
Yea, if one thinks about it, the cast is even bigger than before since the characters that are supposedly done with are less than those who join anew in the present era apparently.

Characters who are (arguably) done and won't appear again:
- Master Xehanort
- Ansem SoD
- Xemnas
- Young Xehanort
- Eraqus

That's 5. Vanitas' ending was ambiguous so I hesitate to add him to the group of "done" characters.

Now characters that might join in newly:
- MoM
- Aced
- Ira
- Invi
- Gula
- Ava?
- Skuld?
- Ephemer?
- Brain/Blaine?
- Yozora?

I don't count Luxu since he seems to take Braig/Xigbar's slot in the cast (except if we will see Luxu and Braig separate down the line) and if we go only by confirmed characters (from the epilogue) the overall number of characters remains the same. Those being done replaced with five others.
Yet if we count those I put a question mark after as well and presume they will appear/play a role then the overall cast is even bigger than before KH III.
 

kirabook

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"Groomed" is a perfect way to frame it. I feel like Xigbar groomed Sora to do what he needed Sora to do. But I'm not exactly sure what he wanted Sora to do except for Sora to take huge risks to save his friends for some reason.
 

Xblade13

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You know what's creepy? What happened to the MoM?

"Vanish? Dim? Fade?..."

Isn't that... Weirdly exactly what ended up happening to Sora?

I do agree that Luxu probably groomed Sora specifically so that this exact outcome would happen. No idea why exactly. Maybe Sora needed to "cross over" into Shibuya/whatever universe Yozora is in, and that's where the MoM went?
 

kirabook

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!!!! My gosh, you're totally right. Did MoM do something he shouldn't have and expected to go poof eventually? It's weird how that matches Sora's situation quite well.
 

Griewer

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"Groomed" is a perfect way to frame it. I feel like Xigbar groomed Sora to do what he needed Sora to do. But I'm not exactly sure what he wanted Sora to do except for Sora to take huge risks to save his friends for some reason.
I don't think Xigbar could've "groomed" Sora in any way. They've only met a couple of times, and most of those times he only taunted him, just like every other organization member.
 

kirabook

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As I mentioned in the OP, Xigbar does not taunt Sora like the rest of the org. He says very specific things. Knowing that he's Luxu and had ulterior motives makes these statements stand out.

Nevermind that he also technically groomed Xehanort from the sidelines to go through with his plans. Xigbar probably dropped vague knowledge all over the place for people like Xehanort to discover, read, and try to act out.

So, I wouldn't be surprised if as Sora became a more prominent player in the field that Xigbar also pushed Sora in a certain direction too.
 

Griewer

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As I mentioned in the OP, Xigbar does not taunt Sora like the rest of the org. He says very specific things. Knowing that he's Luxu and had ulterior motives makes these statements stand out.

Nevermind that he also technically groomed Xehanort from the sidelines to go through with his plans. Xigbar probably dropped vague knowledge all over the place for people like Xehanort to discover, read, and try to act out.

So, I wouldn't be surprised if as Sora became a more prominent player in the field that Xigbar also pushed Sora in a certain direction too.
Xigbar had been taunting him throughout the series, with Kingdom Hearts 3 being the only examption.

He himself admitted not caring about Xehanort's plans and only being on the ride for the keyblade. And Xehanort himself wasn't that big of a fool, to be groomed by Xigbar/Braig. Quite the contrary - it would've been very suspicious if Braig had tried showing any signs of knowledge, that a non-keyblade wielding person shouldn't have known. Also, by the time the two started working together Master Xehanort had been working to achieve his goal for some time.

I think you are giving Luxu far too much credit here. He was told by MoM to pass on the keyblade and to watch the events from afar, and that he did carry out. There would also be no point in masterminding behind the mastermind, because even if you take Xigbar out of the picture, Xehanort would've prepared the same plot, and Sora would've overused his power the same way. Neither had to be influenced, because their actions were basically coded in their characters from the get go.
 

kirabook

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Have you read the secret reports? Xigbar was not 'just along for the ride' for that specific keyblade. He purposely let that keyblade pass down through the generations hoping for someone like Xehanort to try and start another keyblade war. He stood on the sidelines and purposely acted like a fool who only wanted a keyblade.

He didn't mastermind Xehanort's plan. He simply encouraged it and helped as best he could without taking charge or revealing his true intentions. He was waiting for someone like Xehanort to do what he did.
 

Griewer

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Have you read the secret reports? Xigbar was not 'just along for the ride' for that specific keyblade. He purposely let that keyblade pass down through the generations hoping for someone like Xehanort to try and start another keyblade war. He stood on the sidelines and purposely acted like a fool who only wanted a keyblade.

He didn't mastermind Xehanort's plan. He simply encouraged it and helped as best he could without taking charge or revealing his true intentions. He was waiting for someone like Xehanort to do what he did.
I read them. He did what MoM told him to do. (Now, the Keyblade the Master entrusted to me must be bequeathed to another. I will pass the Keyblade to one of them, and then continue watching the future unfold.) He passed on the Keyblade and watch events unfold. But watching the future unfold precisely means NOT doing anything, but watching from afar.

Now, he does mention that it is finally time to intervene, but he also gives an explanation why he does it: "I will don the mask of his ally in order to keep watch over my Keyblade from close by." - This means that he is joining Xehanort's party not so he could groom him into doing anything. He is doing it so he could be at close proximity and recollect No Name when the time comes.

He also states, that "somewhere in this cyclical history of bequeathings, a chosen one will appear and reenact the Keyblade War." - clearly referencing Xehanort. But nowhere does he mention, that he would need to do anything in order to make him reenact it. And if you look at the story of Xehanort, you can come to the conclusion that he doesn't need to.
The closed timeloop writes his fate. Even during their chessgame, Xehanort is shown to be drawn to the darkness at a certain level, and after his time-traveling experience (which he forgets about, but remains imprinted in his heart), fate itself draws him to complete the circle.
He also knew about the Keyblade War and the Lost Masters, and was curious to find out more about that in his youth. So unless Luxu was their master (which I honestly doubt), he couldn't have influenced him during his youth.

Helping and encouraging to acomplish his plans is one thing. I don't disagree that he helped Xehanort (Xigbar himself admits that the two worked together, because the deal was that he helps Xehanort and in exchange he will be bequeathed). But "grooming someone" is a bit much in this case.


But on another note, I do agree with your conclusion to a certain extent. I do think it is MoM we see and that he is there waiting for Sora or expecting his arrival. The way how I see things reaching that point is slighty different, but I do agree that Sora was supposed to wind up there.
 
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