So, why do people hate XIII?



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KingdomSlayer2

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Personally, I loved XIII. The new battle system was relatively easy to get through and wasn't as much of a hassle with other iterations of Final Fantasy games. The story isn't the greatest, sure, but that doesn't indicate it's bad at all. In fact, at the end, the story is well established but I do indeed feel that two more games seemed a little redundant considering no one asked for them(although, I hate to admit it but, I kind of liked LR.) But I just can't point out what aspects of the first game turned people off!
 

Bufferino

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The linearity, the plot can be confusing for some, and some of the characters can be tiring. I personally liked XIII and I'm playing it now and I don't mind the flaws people seem to be struggling with (Though some of the boss battles can be insanely long to deal with, I agree with the haters on that).
 

Chuman

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Imagine if they took kingdom hearts and turned it into an FPS with an easy to follow story filled with loony toons characters.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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While linearity is not new for a FF game, I feel it was the first time the series had such an OBVIOUSLY linear game. The other games give you a bit of a sense of freedom while boxing you in, but this one literally has straight lines for maps and not much to explore on those straight line maps.

The story is a hot mess. It follows the formula of FF rather well, but the team never at any point feels like they become close and so the audience can't become close to them. idk how to describe it but nothing in that game really clicks. Also they wasted a lot of potential for characters like Jihl, Yaag, Cid Raines, Rygdea...Like I love Cid Raines and I'm just so disappointed in how he was just a convenient puppet who deserved more than he got. It's kind of the same feeling I have about Sephiroth in that they were forced into their fates by the true face of evil and were never given the choice to change it, but the difference is that Sephiroth was a great villain whereas Cid Raines is just a wasted unexplored sort-of villain.

The game literally wastes 10 chapters (2/3 of the game) before it finally sets you free of "tutorial" mode.

The gameplay was enjoyable for what it was, but it wasn't anything I could see future FF games taking up without some major overhauls. XIII-2 did much better with the system.

The fact that the sequels exist. They should have never happened because XIII ended on such a good note.

I love FFXIII-2, though, and I do like how ballsy the ending is. I just really hate XIII and LRFF.
 

silentmusic16

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Honestly, as odd as the gameplay choices were for XIII (linearity, the battle system felt off to me, etc), I enjoyed all of the characters and I thought the lore was set up pretty well, and was interesting. The story itself had some nice points, and I really liked the transforming Summons.

XIII-2 and LR were both unnecessary, more or less, but they both improved on some parts of XIII and as someone who didn't hate Lighting (quite the opposite, actually) I didn't mind LR either.

I'm sure they'll forever be the black sheep of the FF series, but I'll be secure in the knowledge that I had fun playing them.
 
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Zettaflare

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I honestly thought that Jihl would have been a far better main villain than Barthandelus. Removing her so early was a huge mistake
 

Sora2016

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Honestly, as odd as the gameplay choices were for XIII (linearity, the battle system felt off to me, etc), I enjoyed all of the characters and I thought the lore was set up pretty well, and was interesting. The story itself had some nice points, and I really liked the transforming Summons.

XIII-2 and LR were both unnecessary, more or less, but they both improved on some parts of XIII, and as someone who didn't hate Lighting (quite the opposite, actually) I didn't mind LR either.

I'm sure they'll forever be the black sheep of the FF series, but I'll be secure in the knowledge that I had fun playing them.
This echoes my feelings as well. I get it, if the linearity and not so great battle system turned people off (I liked the battle system more than a few other games in the series though honestly, it was far from my least favorite). But for me personally the story and characters were good and kept me going. And I have played plenty of linear games so I guess that didn't bug me much either. Though yeah it was very obviously done. Some games do better "hiding" the forced linearity at least.

And then I liked XIII-2 for rather different reasons, in that it was a lot of fun to play. I liked Serah a lot and Noel is cool, but the story and everything meant less to me. Also, I didn't like how it barely felt like the first, like they were trying to "fix" the first for the people that didn't like it instead of improving what they had but meh.

Oh, and then I didn't ever play LR lol. I think I will someday but it didn't look...as good, and then people who liked both of the other games were kind of meh on it as far as I could see so yeah.

Though, overall I would rank it maybe mid-tier among most of the main series. I mean my feelings on that sort of thing fluctuate frequently haha, but yeah.
 

Tartarus

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From what I remember, what I hated most was the combat. It was just hard to work and every little battle took foreeeeeeveeeeeer, and I eventually came to a boss I couldn't beat. I can't remember what/who it was because I don't remember much about it outside the main characters. It's after the whole cast was back together, I believe (and after Hope had confronted Snow), and there was nowhere to go backwards to to level up. Something about the game was very cold though and vaguely I thought it was linear at times, but if the combat had been better, I'd probably have enjoyed it.

That said, I had planned to re-try the game when XIII-2 came out anyway, but I read the ending was DLC and my reaction was, "**** this ****."
 

KingdomSlayer2

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While linearity is not new for a FF game, I feel it was the first time the series had such an OBVIOUSLY linear game. The other games give you a bit of a sense of freedom while boxing you in, but this one literally has straight lines for maps and not much to explore on those straight line maps.

The story is a hot mess. It follows the formula of FF rather well, but the team never at any point feels like they become close and so the audience can't become close to them. idk how to describe it but nothing in that game really clicks. Also they wasted a lot of potential for characters like Jihl, Yaag, Cid Raines, Rygdea...Like I love Cid Raines and I'm just so disappointed in how he was just a convenient puppet who deserved more than he got. It's kind of the same feeling I have about Sephiroth in that they were forced into their fates by the true face of evil and were never given the choice to change it, but the difference is that Sephiroth was a great villain whereas Cid Raines is just a wasted unexplored sort-of villain.

The game literally wastes 10 chapters (2/3 of the game) before it finally sets you free of "tutorial" mode.

The gameplay was enjoyable for what it was, but it wasn't anything I could see future FF games taking up without some major overhauls. XIII-2 did much better with the system.

The fact that the sequels exist. They should have never happened because XIII ended on such a good note.

I love FFXIII-2, though, and I do like how ballsy the ending is. I just really hate XIII and LRFF.
I'm not really sure exactly how character development works. Do you mind explaining?
 

Oracle Spockanort

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From what I remember, what I hated most was the combat. It was just hard to work and every little battle took foreeeeeeveeeeeer, and I eventually came to a boss I couldn't beat. I can't remember what/who it was because I don't remember much about it outside the main characters. It's after the whole cast was back together, I believe (and after Hope had confronted Snow), and there was nowhere to go backwards to to level up. Something about the game was very cold though and vaguely I thought it was linear at times, but if the combat had been better, I'd probably have enjoyed it.

That said, I had planned to re-try the game when XIII-2 came out anyway, but I read the ending was DLC and my reaction was, "**** this ****."
XIII is definitely very clinical. It is a hard feeling to pinpoint, but there is definitely something about it that just doesn't really feel right.

As for XIII-2, I'd say you should give it a try. The true ending DLC is bullshit but you can just watch it on YT. XIII-2 is a massive improvement on XIII's gameplay, and because the game is really only working with four main characters for most of the story, it has more time to focus on them. The whole time travel stuff is dumb but I personally felt an odd sense of accomplishment when I finish XIII-2 and platinum'd it. It feels alive as a game.

I'm not really sure exactly how character development works. Do you mind explaining?
Are you asking this sarcastically or honestly?
 

KingdomSlayer2

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XIII is definitely very clinical. It is a hard feeling to pinpoint, but there is definitely something about it that just doesn't really feel right.

As for XIII-2, I'd say you should give it a try. The true ending DLC is bullshit but you can just watch it on YT. XIII-2 is a massive improvement on XIII's gameplay, and because the game is really only working with four main characters for most of the story, it has more time to focus on them. The whole time travel stuff is dumb but I personally felt an odd sense of accomplishment when I finish XIII-2 and platinum'd it. It feels alive as a game.



Are you asking this sarcastically or honestly?
For realsies.
I have hard time trying to fully comprehend the entire structure of character development and what effects does that have towards the story.
 

BlackOsprey

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I was asking this question myself for a very long time. But even though I enjoyed it, I can sort of understand the hate.

The most prominent complaint by far is the linearity. Objectively, many, many maps are straight and narrow corridors. Heck, I once saw some video that called it "Final Hallway XIII." I'm one of those weirdoes who doesn't mind the linearity- in fact, even if they gave me more options, I'd probably still make a beeline for the plot- but this didn't sit well with the FF fanbase at all. Seems to me like they expect more wiggle room than a narrow path. You have to get many, many hours into the game for it to finally drop you off in the Archelyte Steppes for some free roaming.

Then, the battle system. Each battle can take a lot of patience, and the worst fights take a massive amount of persistence. Mess up on one little thing, and the last 20 minutes of progress you made on some SoB is for naught. I dunno where I found the persistence that let me beat so many of those fights, looking back on it.

Also, I got a little feedback from a family member on the game: he couldn't really get into it because cutscenes kept hijacking the gameplay every other encounter. He couldn't make any progress without the game interrupting him. His other complaint was the battle mechanics; again, they were just a little too slow for him. ATB didn't let him take care of things quick enough.

I'm pretty annoyed that the sequels ever became a thing, to be honest. XIII had an ending that I was okay with. There was no reason to mess with it or continue it, and yet they did. Just. Why.
For realsies.
I have hard time trying to fully comprehend the entire structure of character development and what effects does that have towards the story.
*shifts uncomfortably* Well... character development doesn't just affect the story. It's part of the story. It's a way to show that the events of the plot have an impact on something, as well as a way to both present and resolve conflict. XIII has a habit of focusing really close and personal on each individual character, so character development becomes even more important than usual. In fact, a great deal of the conflict in the early game comes from these sorts of things (Lightning's less than cooperative attitude, Hope's beef with Snow, Sahz's problem with his son being a Cocoon l'Cie, the list goes on).

So, if that stuff is done poorly, you don't have a very good story, do ya?
 
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Kazr10

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I liked XIII up till chapter 11. I don't mind the linearity, accepted it as an unique thing that belongs to XIII. But throwing me suddenly into an open world destroyed my entire game experience.

Not sure of the psychological term, but it is similar to an experience prisoners felt when they are imprisoned for a long time and set free, they tend to be lost because of the sudden freedom and choices and they don't know what to do.

I love open world games. But the change is too sudden for me. Maybe it's just me but I felt very lost even though I consciously know how to proceed. Gave up XIII immediately and go through the rest of the game and sequels through LPs.
 

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Disclaimer I do legitimately like XIII but these are my main issues with it....

The battles I'm all for giving a challenging battle but it's ridiculous how even the smallest random encounters can kill you so easily, sometimes it's almost a crapshot on if you'll survive. This makes the game very taxing to play and it removes the reward of leveling an RPG because you don't really feel that growth of getting stronger. This makes the later levels in general start to really feel like a chore that drags on made all the worse by the linearity of it all. And my god the boss battles I'm all for making a tough fight that punishes loss but XIII's numbers are so ungodly bloated that the later bosses start to feel as if they will take an eternity.

The customization system, I'm all for giving us customization to let us change up how we play and grow our characters. But I don't do need customization and level up systems on my basic equipment. It's just way too much micromanaging and doesn't feel nearly as rewarding as exploring a dungeon and finding a chest containing a shiny new sword or something like in most of the other FF games. Kinda the same issues I have with coded a game that makes you micromanaging by every single individual stat point, elemental boost, and resistance and like it's just tedious. Removing that nice simple equipment upgrading system further added to the whole lack of feeling stronger, there is just no real steady growth and that important in an RPG especially a grind heavy one.

The story and the lore was great and I very much enjoyed the characters but I feel XIII suffers very much in that it uses lots of fancy names and terminology that makes the story harder to grasp and has very little payoff for what uniqueness it gains. Like I understand building your own world and all that but it really should have toned it down and worked on make it more gradual and digestible. Also it takes an issue KH had and made it worse in that it doesn't include critical story information in the story. KH puts important information off to the side in things like the journal or Xehanort reports, and while it's important at least it's not terribly large amount. FFXIII virtually had several thesis papers (okay over exaggerating a bit) stored in offhand lore logs and side quests and all that. It was way too much thrown out of the way and it's not like FFXIII had the excuse of not having anywhere to place it....like 80% of the game's plot is running around while nothing happens. Sazh and Vanille in particular their plot is more less all about running away from the plot as far as possible. It's not terribly interesting and the lack of payoff for any of the long running you do makes it feel worse, but if they had taken the chance to stream lore and stuff along the way then you know that would have helped the issue of throwing so much of the lore to the side and the big gaps of "people run through this place and nothing really happens".

I'm also not one to complain about linear hallway-like design but FFXIII's I will. Not because it was linear because frankly I didn't ever actually feel like it was linear or I was in a hallway, I think the design and environments did a good job hiding that. For me the issue was that areas themselves were just so long and so little to do besides walk around and battle. I mean sure that's FF in a nutshell but other FF games break it up or mix in some puzzles or something. There is just so little to actually keep you engaged that the repetition starts to become a lot more noticeable, and again there is so little payoff. The levels keep getting longer but the rewards of story at the end just seem to get smaller and smaller. By the time I got to the part where you get free reign I was to burned out to enjoy it, I just wanted to finish the game.

Honestly I think XIII-2 and Lightning Returns fixed most of these issues and thus were good games. But at the same time their stories are disasters that in a lot of ways spit on everything you worked for in XIII (also the continual reducing of party members was annoying) and like...while I'm not one to play the "convoluted" card like ever. I don't know what other word to describe XIII-2 and Lightning returns...I mean it was moderately fixed in Lightning Returns but the damage XIII-2 did really doesn't ever go away. I think XIII as a whole would be looked on more fondly if it hadn't been made a trilogy.
 

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For realsies.
I have hard time trying to fully comprehend the entire structure of character development and what effects does that have towards the story.
Character development is essentially the bread and butter of a character-driven game. It's the primary way you can see how characters are affected by the events of the story. If a character doesn't grow from the experiences they have, then you have a static character who merely interacts with the world and doesn't affect it and vice versa.

We see a lot of development from the main cast, but it all feels superficial because it never really leads anywhere meaningful once they finish their respective character arcs. Maybe it is meaningful to the characters themselves, but I personally didn't connect to them. Their story arcs were contrived because they tried to be overly dramatic. That isn't to say I didn't enjoy some of the cast, but...yeah.

The supporting cast is worse because they don't get the chance to develop. They are essentially there to fill roles when necessary and vanish once the plot has finished using them, which makes them a waste of space.

*shifts uncomfortably* Well... character development doesn't just affect the story. It's part of the story. It's a way to show that the events of the plot have an impact on something, as well as a way to both present and resolve conflict. XIII has a habit of focusing really close and personal on each individual character, so character development becomes even more important than usual. In fact, a great deal of the conflict in the early game comes from these sorts of things (Lightning's less than cooperative attitude, Hope's beef with Snow, Sahz's problem with his son being a Cocoon l'Cie, the list goes on).

So, if that stuff is done poorly, you don't have a very good story, do ya?
This explains it well.

I liked XIII up till chapter 11. I don't mind the linearity, accepted it as an unique thing that belongs to XIII. But throwing me suddenly into an open world destroyed my entire game experience.

Not sure of the psychological term, but it is similar to an experience prisoners felt when they are imprisoned for a long time and set free, they tend to be lost because of the sudden freedom and choices and they don't know what to do.

I love open world games. But the change is too sudden for me. Maybe it's just me but I felt very lost even though I consciously know how to proceed. Gave up XIII immediately and go through the rest of the game and sequels through LPs.
It is kind of close to Stockholm syndrome...but I'd say it is just a result of conditioning. You've been primed into the limitations for 2/3 of the game so to be introduced to an open world is essentially having to condition yourself into a new paradigm.
 

Zettaflare

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I think my biggest problem with FF13 was that Lightning really didn't feel like the main character. Sure I guess you could call her the leader, but Vanille and Fang were far more important in the grand scheme of things. I had the same issue with Vaan from FF12.

The story should have been centered on the main protagonist and it just didn't for Lightning
 

Vanitas666

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The story was pretty weird and incoherent but my main problem (even if I enjoyed the game well enough) was that I didn't like most of the main characters, especially Lightning but the only ones I really liked in the entire game were Vanille and Fang, Sahz was kinda fun at times but I could never care for him when they tried to attach us to his son and that suicide scene was just diddlying stupid.
Lightning just felt like one of those characters that they just made to be a "cool" archetype but she had nothing more to offer and her sole purpose was to show that women can be cool and pull of the Cloud type character or something but by having nothing more she just became a poor imitation and a wannabe.
She probably came to be because they wanted a female main character but still bad ass (unlike Terra I guess) but they forgot to add anything else, maybe they should have focused on making a good character and then see what archetype suite her afterwards.
 
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Magnus

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XIII had the most interesting lore of any Final Fantasy game.


And all of it was tucked away inside that stupid datalog.
 

MATGSY

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Allow me to express my feelings in 4chan greenspeak:

>Doesn't get any money for killing enemies.

>Gets many items with no apparent purpose from killing enemies.

>"Ah, just like in FF12, the very game that preceded this one & would still be fresh on fan's minds. I clearly sell this vendor trash to make my money."

>Buys weapons. Sells weapons to buy newer weapons that appear in shops later on, naturally assuming the newer weapons have higher stats like in every single other FF.

>Many hours of this later the game decides then to bring up weapon upgrades.

>Turns out the loot did have a purpose & I shouldn't have been selling it this whole time.

>"Wait, so it better to upgrade old weapons or continually change out to new ones?"

>Look it up online. Turns out newer weapons aren't always necessarily better but instead focused on alternate passive abilities.

>MFW I made myself severely underpowered by playing to tradition.

>Chapter enforced level caps means I can't advance further in that regard & must depend on weapon levelling.

>Giant Metal Bulbasaur boss.

> Foxtrot. Uniform. Charlie. Kilo.


& then 13-2 came & changed literally all of that back to normal, which is the reason why it's the superior game IMO.
 
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