Spoilers ► Post-MOM Theories

[AegisXIII]

Sometimes I wonder if the power of waking is not a poor translation as the more I think about it, the less sense it makes. Why not call it the power to connect? Also, why is it bringing people to other worlds?

Yensid is a terrible teacher.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

Spoiler Show

4. Mickey is setting out on a solo mission to Scala Ad Caelum.... to.. research... fiction????? Literally have no clue what to think of that except it is obviously important since it was the closing scene.

I presume it may have to do with the upperclassmen that disappeared, which includes Baldr's sister. It's possible that they ended up in the Unreality/Quadratum.

Sometimes I wonder if the power of waking is not a poor translation as the more I think about it, the less sense it makes. Why not call it the power to connect? Also, why is it bringing people to other worlds?

Yensid is a terrible teacher.

Maybe the Power of Waking "wakes" the sleeping connections between hearts? Maybe all hearts are born intertwined, but since we don't remember it, the connection falls asleep. This is why Quadratum needed three keys to be accessed:
• Kairi's strong bond to Sora
• Nameless Star's strong bond to her unfinished life in Quadratum
• Riku's Power of Waking in order to materialize that connection

 

[AegisXIII]

Spoiler Show

I presume it may have to do with the upperclassmen that disappeared, which includes Baldr's sister. It's possible that they ended up in the Unreality/Quadratum.

Maybe the Power of Waking "wakes" the sleeping connections between hearts? Maybe all hearts are born intertwined, but since we don't remember it, the connection falls asleep. This is why Quadratum needed three keys to be accessed:
• Kairi's strong bond to Sora
• Nameless Star's strong bond to her unfinished life in Quadratum
• Riku's Power of Waking in order to materialize that connection

It does make sense. Interesting. Thanks.

 

[KeyToDestiny]

Honestly Kairi was not even necessary as a clue to where Sora is when we really get down to it. I mean how was her clue helpful in any way? All Xehanort told her was about a world on the other side that isn't light or darkness and is where voices can't heard from that side to this side. That does nothing. Riku's clue was showing descriptive information on what his dream showed which was a city on the other side with tall buildings and skycrapers. Once he brought that up to Nameless Star(who is a clue in itself), she was able to identify it as Quadratum and with her being used as a portal, Riku was able to use the Power of Waking to head to Quadratum. To the other side where Sora's at. Honestly only Riku and Nameless Star were necessary. Kairi wasn't. Fairy Godmother could have just taken Riku and nothing would have changed at all. Kairi could have told Nameless Star if she knew about a world on the other side of their reality that isn't light or darkness and Nameless Star probably wouldn't know what the hell she's talking about hence why they had Riku ask her about his clue instead because it was way more helpful and to the point than Kairi's was.

No wonder Kairi's getting benched for next game. She wasn't useful at all to getting to Sora(with Sora having to come to her rescue once again). Let Riku and Yozora handle the "save Sora" stuff.

 

[okhi12]

The fact Xehanort has known about unreality for such a long time makes me wonder if he's actually been there in the past.
Young Xehanort was well aware the price for abusing the PoW was fading from this world (this reality), and Terra-Xehanort (or was it Master Xehanort?) asked time-traveling Sora if he, too, was ready to pay the ultimate price, implying Xehanort himself or someone he knows has abused that power before and faced the consequences. This has been theorised before on this site, if I'm not mistaken.
It could be the upper classmen from DR or Xehanort's classmates with the Norse god names who ended up in the other side, but that doesn't exclude the possibility that Xehanort experienced that fate and managed to return.

My point is that Quadratum as we have seen it is a city at night with a lot of skyscrapers. I don't know if someone has brought this up, probably yes because it's quite obvious and noticeable, but it's quite reminiscent of The World That Never Was. What do we call something that never was, something that does not exist? Non reality, fiction.
TWTNW is like an artificial world made by Xemnas, the nobody of a man who casually knows about non-reality. That can't be a coincidence.

Ironically, nobodies are but don't exist...whatever than means, because it never made much sense. They are incomplete beings, that's it. But if their hub world happened to be based after the image of another one from unreality or fiction which also doesn't exist (on the same side) that would be quite fitting and poetic.

The secret endings of the first KH was the first time we saw TWTNW, and the first Versus XIII trailer had the same vibes. And now the Versus concepts are seeing the light as part of KH. Maybe I'm reaching a lot and it's just Nomura recycling concepts again but it's not too farfetched that he will relate both locations. He likes making every little forgotten detail relevant, like the ark or the weird thoughts lately line from KH1.

 

[kingofgame981]

Spoiler Show

Dang, I'm late with the discussion!

I watched the whole cutscenes last night from Everglow's channel, and I was surprised to see Nomura did use the fictional worlds as canon. I thought it was a joke as first by Ansem the Wise, but then that theory repeat again later on.

Another good thing is that we now know Yozora world name is Quadratum, but also sad that we cannot learn about the name of Nameless Star.

 

[kingofgame981]

Now I wish that one day the KH-team can put together a encyclopaedia or something similar about the world and lore of KH like FFXIV Encyclopaedia.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

asked time-traveling Sora if he, too, was ready to pay the ultimate price, implying Xehanort himself or someone he knows has abused that power before and faced the consequences.

Spoiler Show

Maybe Baldr suffered that fate. This is theory-grounds now, but maybe Baldr abusing the Power of Waking hurt his heart to the point of almost extinction, but instead of going to the Final World, his heart fused with a newborn heart: Yozora. Yozora right now is a byproduct of a newly born heart and a dying heart (much like how Venus-Sora relationship was built). And who was Baldr trying to save? His sister and the upperclassmen, which could mirror Sora saving the Guardians of Light.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

The fact Xehanort has known about unreality for such a long time makes me wonder if he's actually been there in the past.
Young Xehanort was well aware the price for abusing the PoW was fading from this world (this reality), and Terra-Xehanort (or was it Master Xehanort?) asked time-traveling Sora if he, too, was ready to pay the ultimate price, implying Xehanort himself or someone he knows has abused that power before and faced the consequences. This has been theorised before on this site, if I'm not mistaken.
It could be the upper classmen from DR or Xehanort's classmates with the Norse god names who ended up in the other side, but that doesn't exclude the possibility that Xehanort experienced that fate and managed to return.

My point is that Quadratum as we have seen it is a city at night with a lot of skyscrapers. I don't know if someone has brought this up, probably yes because it's quite obvious and noticeable, but it's quite reminiscent of The World That Never Was. What do we call something that never was, something that does not exist? Non reality, fiction.
TWTNW is like an artificial world made by Xemnas, the nobody of a man who casually knows about non-reality. That can't be a coincidence.

Ironically, nobodies are but don't exist...whatever than means, because it never made much sense. They are incomplete beings, that's it. But if their hub world happened to be based after the image of another one from unreality or fiction which also doesn't exist (on the same side) that would be quite fitting and poetic.

The secret endings of the first KH was the first time we saw TWTNW, and the first Versus XIII trailer had the same vibes. And now the Versus concepts are seeing the light as part of KH. Maybe I'm reaching a lot and it's just Nomura recycling concepts again but it's not too farfetched that he will relate both locations. He likes making every little forgotten detail relevant, like the ark or the weird thoughts lately line from KH1.

This theory is blowing my mind and retroactively validates Xehanort reasoning for summoning Kingdom Hearts in Kingdom Hearts III. If Young Xehanort visited the world of Verum Rex and wanted to recreate his reality just like Verum Rex with a reset, that would explain his carelessness for the light and the preference of darkness, because in the long run, the balance of those things don't matter if it's to be reset.

And just like you said, Xehanort's visit to Verum Rex could retroactively explain the urban asthetic behind The World that Never Was and more information regarding Nobodies.

 

[Face My Fears]

Sometimes I wonder if the power of waking is not a poor translation as the more I think about it, the less sense it makes. Why not call it the power to connect? Also, why is it bringing people to other worlds?

Yensid is a terrible teacher.

Maybe it means "waking" as in waking up the wielder to the worlds beyond their reality? We've seen it used to travel to the Sleeping Realms, the Realm of Darkness, The Final World, and now to

Spoiler Show

Quadratum

 

[LoneFox]

After two weeks of not seeing the forest from the trees, I have managed to unchain myself, and realize that we actually know exactly what "the ancient masters had crossed over into another world" means, and suddenly a lot of things make sense. Think about it before opening this spoiler tag:

Spoiler Show

It is the world where the Dandelions went to escape the Keyblade War. Since light and darkness don't exist there, it would be unaffected by the war. Also, we were shown a similar dream connection from there to the real world (from Ephemer to the Player) as is going on with Riku now. Same stuff is happening in Dark Road as well. And then, according to Luxu's secret report, the union leaders used "the same trick" to escape "into another worldline" (in more clear language, they went back into that world), which explains why the Ancient Keyblade Legacy is still there.

The big questions now are:

• Is the Unreality inside the box (instead of the data Daybreak Town like we have been assuming), or is it something completely different?
• What was the Master of Masters trying to do with this, and how his plan was derailed?
• What is the connection to both Sora and Riku? Why does Yozora look like them?

 

[Ballad of Caius]

After two weeks of not seeing the forest from the trees, I have managed to unchain myself, and realize that we actually know exactly what "the ancient masters had crossed over into another world" means, and suddenly a lot of things make sense. Think about it before opening this spoiler tag:

Spoiler Show

It is the world where the Dandelions went to escape the Keyblade War. Since light and darkness don't exist there, it would be unaffected by the war. Also, we were shown a similar dream connection from there to the real world (from Ephemer to the Player) as is going on with Riku now. Same stuff is happening in Dark Road as well. And then, according to Luxu's secret report, the union leaders used "the same trick" to escape "into another worldline" (in more clear language, they went back into that world), which explains why the Ancient Keyblade Legacy is still there.

The big questions now are:

• Is the Unreality inside the box (instead of the data Daybreak Town like we have been assuming), or is it something completely different?
• What was the Master of Masters trying to do with this, and how his plan was derailed?
• What is the connection to both Sora and Riku? Why does Yozora look like them?

I don't think the Unreality is inside the box. Remember Riku had to go to the Final World in order to access it, plus Sora met Yozora in a dusk version of the Final World before entering Quadratum. It's possible that, in order to jump Worldlines, you need to go through the Final World. Maybe the Final World is the Line between all Worlds/Realities, and when you cross the Final World to another Reality, it's called a Worldline.

 

[Xickin]

So I have three things I want to say, one of which is not a spoiler (unless you're WAY behind on KHUX), and two of which are:

1. Now I may not be the first to mention it, but what if we've been misinterpreting Master Xehanort's title of "Seeker of Darkness" this whole time? What if the title wasn't about him seeking out darkness to gain power, what if it was about him actually looking for Darkness (the entity itself) hence his whole endgame at the end of 3. He knows about Darkness, tried seeking it out in its own domain, failed, then came up with the Purge idea.

2. So Ansem the Wise and Yen Sid come up with the notion that alongside their worlds of Light, Darkness, Between, Memories, Data, and Dreams, there is a possible world of fiction, however (and this is just me reading into things) what if THEY are the world of fiction? In many instances KH has referred to the ancient times as the Age of Fairy Tales, which kind of answers another question: why everything and everyone in these fairy tale worlds seems to stay the same in many of the other titles in terms of aging/their repeating plots. What if Xehanort knew that they were the world of fiction, being created by the REAL world, and was aware of some crisis happening on their end that could end theirs (i.e. a war or apocalyptic event [which fits into Verum Rex])

3. So I just saw this and thought it was interesting: when we see MoM at the of 3, he makes a square/rectangular shape with his hands before making a heart over a moon, and the city he's in is most likely Quadratum, which is based off the word "Quadratus" meaning "Make Square" (and coincidentally inserting a possible SQUARE ENIX reference), just some food for thought

 

[Ballad of Caius]

So I have three things I want to say, one of which is not a spoiler (unless you're WAY behind on KHUX), and two of which are:
1. Now I may not be the first to mention it, but what if we've been misinterpreting Master Xehanort's title of "Seeker of Darkness" this whole time? What if the title wasn't about him seeking out darkness to gain power, what if it was about him actually looking for Darkness (the entity itself) hence his whole endgame at the end of 3. He knows about Darkness, tried seeking it out in its own domain, failed, then came up with the Purge idea.

Spoiler Show

2. So Ansem the Wise and Yen Sid come up with the notion that alongside their worlds of Light, Darkness, Between, Memories, Data, and Dreams, there is a possible world of fiction, however (and this is just me reading into things) what if THEY are the world of fiction? In many instances KH has referred to the ancient times as the Age of Fairy Tales, which kind of answers another question: why everything and everyone in these fairy tale worlds seems to stay the same in many of the other titles in terms of aging/their repeating plots. What if Xehanort knew that they were the world of fiction, being created by the REAL world, and was aware of some crisis happening on their end that could end theirs (i.e. a war or apocalyptic event [which fits into Verum Rex])
3. So I just saw this and thought it was interesting: when we see MoM at the of 3, he makes a square/rectangular shape with his hands before making a heart over a moon, and the city he's in is most likely Quadratum, which is based off the word "Quadratus" meaning "Make Square" (and coincidentally inserting a possible SQUARE ENIX reference), just some food for thought

The MoM making a Square upon seeing the moon in Shibuya;
The place where he's at is called "Quadratum" (Square)
Squares are perfect figures, and if you were to walk in a square shaped, you'd always come back where you'd started
Quadratum, square, you come back where everything started

 

[Xagzan]

Call me crazy but I can't shake the feeling that we'll still be seeing Xehanort from time to time, not as the villain, but just like in this game, as a figure in Kairi's memory. Someone she'll encounter in her mind, willingly or not, every so often and who will give her advice like a dark mentor that pops up as a last resort when no other avenues are available. A dark guide, kind of like Ansem was to Riku except he's not literally there and not trying to turn her to darkness.

After all, her memory of Xehanort isn't gone. She couldn't even beat him in the final boss fight on her own, needing Sora's help. And he isn't permanently defeated when MoM ends. (Related note, the fact that Kairi couldn't even overcome a figment of her imagination could be such rich psychological grounds for character work--not that I expect this series to do anything with that)

So assuming we keep even a small focus on Kairi going forward, I can see him returning occasionally when the group is in a tight spot to both taunt her and give advice, like he did here, until such time as she can banish him for good, without relying on someone else to do it for her.

 

[Tobi]

Spoiler Show

2. So Ansem the Wise and Yen Sid come up with the notion that alongside their worlds of Light, Darkness, Between, Memories, Data, and Dreams, there is a possible world of fiction, however (and this is just me reading into things) what if THEY are the world of fiction? In many instances KH has referred to the ancient times as the Age of Fairy Tales, which kind of answers another question: why everything and everyone in these fairy tale worlds seems to stay the same in many of the other titles in terms of aging/their repeating plots. What if Xehanort knew that they were the world of fiction, being created by the REAL world, and was aware of some crisis happening on their end that could end theirs (i.e. a war or apocalyptic event [which fits into Verum Rex])

(tbh I'm not sure if spoiler are necessary in this thread)

Spoiler Show

Tbh, the first time I saw these scenes and them talking about fiction, I was thinking the same. Naturally, in their perspective, they wouldnt dream seeing themselves as the ones who are fictional. It's no game series, which is known for destroying the 4th wall. It's a risky thing to do, since I already saw another case where it split the fanbase in half.

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Namely Danganronpa.

The question arises in this case, if that truth comes out, how they would deal with that, because there is hardly a way to go back from that. I guess Sora optimism could relay some of that damage, but that doesnt hold true for everyone. But if it would be that way, it could give us a new perspective + of course a lot of new questions towards to some things.

First, is that fictional universe just a game or more like a simulation (like in SAO the latest seasons, if that is telling anyone anything) or something else? The former would be fitting, since Verum Rex was first shown as a game (and of course for us, too it's just a game) and is giving more creative room to explain things. A simulation on the other side would need a purpose, some kind of goal which has to fit with what we had already seen. I kinda prefer the simulation solution, since it would make the next point a bit easier to explain. The only problem I have explaining myself is, how - if KH is there just a game/simulation over there - the two sides could be intertwined, so the KH side can dream and even enter the other side. "Because magic of the real-reality" would be the only possible way I could explain it myself at the moment.

Secondly the "Masters of Masters" a name, which is a sign that he naturally stands beyond others - like an admin? There was before somewhere I don't remember (could have been here or reddit) a talk about, how the titles of each game has something to do with coding (if remembered correctly). As the admin of the simulation "Kingdom Hearts" he could give him different properties, would have an easier time to get from KH back home (since it's him who is control of designing entrances and exits) and even his aging would be possible to explain, since he could just hit (outside) the fast forward button. So basically, he is a god in the fictional world of KH (Nomura?)

Thirdly, hard connected with the second point, how do other characters originating there fit in? Mainly Luxord. How about he is someone who hacked into "Kingdom Hearts" the simulation? He called Not-Noctis commander and isn't someone who seems to suppose to be there. This assumption is firstly based on the talk between Luxord and Luxu, secondly on the assumption that "Brain" is just another character/profil/ account from whoever controls the Luxord we know, which he used first. Brain calling himself a virus would fit here. The card he gave Sora is then a sort of cheat or hack he created and is outside of the control of MoM.

And at this point, i would want to go back to the purpose, since I got an idea while writing all of this. Assuming that my speculation that MoM is the admin, and "Luxord" is someone who hacked into "Kingdom Hearts" is correct, they are standing on opposite sides. So what MoM is doing leads to fullfilling his goals, what Luxord is doing is trying to prevent this. MoM setted of atleast two wars (Foretellers and what happened in KH3) so his goal would have to do anything with military-stuff. The first war was a chaotic mess, with multiple sides fighting of against each other and there was a huge difference between a Foreteller and a normal soldier ending up with no one being alive anymore. The second one was with very few participants, but everyone was in some sort of form powerful (well... I guess the exceptions here a Kairi and Lea). My best guess is the collection of combat data and going through different scenarios.

 

[Akezura]

The MoM making a Square upon seeing the moon in Shibuya;
The place where he's at is called "Quadratum" (Square)
Squares are perfect figures, and if you were to walk in a square shaped, you'd always come back where you'd started
Quadratum, square, you come back where everything started

ngl I think you're reaching with the "MoM making a Square" thing

 

[Alpha Baymax]

ngl I think you're reaching with the "MoM making a Square" thing

He's not reaching, the Master of Masters is making a square shape with his fingers before making a heart shape.

 

[the red monster]

Maybe master xehanort's entire plan was to reset the world so he will be sent to quadratum where MoM is.

 

[Fiddlesticks]

Spoiler Show

I presume it may have to do with the upperclassmen that disappeared, which includes Baldr's sister. It's possible that they ended up in the Unreality/Quadratum.

Maybe the Power of Waking "wakes" the sleeping connections between hearts? Maybe all hearts are born intertwined, but since we don't remember it, the connection falls asleep. This is why Quadratum needed three keys to be accessed:
• Kairi's strong bond to Sora
• Nameless Star's strong bond to her unfinished life in Quadratum
• Riku's Power of Waking in order to materialize that connection

Nice putting those ideas!