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Eonstar890

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I voted for friendship because ultimately that’s what KH has always been about, but I would be happy with some romance as well.
I don’t want to get my hopes up, but the cover art for MoM got me feeling some type of way about Sora and Kairi so I’m low key excited to see how their relationships develops in this game. Even if that development is one sided on Kairis side that’s still be great since the opposite was true for oh idk... every other entry ever.
I must say I am slightly scared for a pairing to become canon purely because it’s never been done before and I worry about the execution of it. I can easily see ppl hating it even if it was a pairing they shipped because it didn’t happen the way they wanted it to or whatever.
Either way I’ll enjoy eating my popcorn and reading the forums responses to the game.
 

*TwilightNight*

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Nobody with a capital N.

Real life version of Naminè then, gotcha.


But. You think friendship and romance are so different? In this Kingdom Hearts??

Nomura blurs the lines, because the cliques, I mean, sorry, "trios", all show physical affection, and/or are open to showing they care.

For example, people with shipping colored glasses would think that Riku holding out a hand for Naminè to touch fingers with is romantic, but a SoRiku fan as a joke actually found that Sora did the same with Pooh Bear.

20200830_164538.jpg

And it did so, literally, in the exact same way, in the exact same matter, copy and paste. You have to see it in motion. So while it's "played for laughs", you have to reevaluate the intention.

Same thing when Saïx was dying in Lea's arms as he faded away. Shippers of the pair found it romantic when it happened to Roxas and Xion (it wasn't to me, go figure), but now you have these two friends doing a similar, emotional act and then you have to reevaluate. Either it's platonic, or Lea and Isa are actually gay if you think Roxas' and Xion's was romantic. You can't pick and choose cause of heteronormativity.

Another example that I can think of is the opening when it comes to Aqua:

kh0-2-bbs-sora-reaches-for-aqua.jpg

The only reason why people wouldn't find it romantic is because it's actually Aqua reaching out for Sora's outstretched hand. Sora has been hinted with Kairi and then you have Aqua with Terra or Ven. But imagine if it was Kairi there. Or hell, even Riku. Or a random girl's hand. Everyone will be singing a different tune. Right? You know it's true.

If Axel wasn't in his mid-20s, and was the same age as Roxas, what would his and Xion's scenes be regarded like? More than likely different, let's be real here. But not, oh, not if he's a grown adult. It's not romantic then.

All in all, majority of the shippers tend to go with confirmation bias. If it fits the narrative they want, they'll regard it as such. Doesn't matter if one is a clone of Roxas/Sora the same way Riku Replica is to Riku, it's a black haired looking female, so it must be romantic.

The only one that's slated as romance is Sora and Kairi, and that's merely because their scenes are framed differently and in a meta sense (this is important, the META, because the implications can also be outside the narrative game/story via official art, merch, etc.), you see them as the main couple of the series. We know that's the intention, it's legit shoved into your throat whether you like it or not. And that's due to the presentation and what they've build up upon. Not just acts of affection given to those they care about, because that's not only for romantic love.


Look at the entirety of the 2.8. credits where the relationship of characters are broken into separate sections and what's shown. It goes:

• OG characters' friendships with Disney characters as well as the Disney's characters respective Disney friends.
• The next section blends in and they start mixing in the KH characters' friendship with KH characters (which are basically just the trios)
• It then goes to emotional/suffering/tragic moments, so you're gonna see the characters being sad or whatever.
• KH characters connections to other KH characters but now in the positive sense (physical presentation of how they care in particular, so I guess everyone in general just wants to screw each other's brains out if we take the shipper mentality, cool, the best ending)
• AND THEN....oh, ohhhh. Starts Disney couples and other couples, so this is the romantic section. You'll notice because the first thing you see is kissing. Then SoKai just hogs the entirety of it near the end because main couple rights or something I guess.

So everyone needs to differentiate. Which makes the current poll even more interesting.
 
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palizinhas

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I honestly wish Riku/Riku Replica was a more popular ship. Their interactions in KH3 are the only times where Riku actually feels like an actual character and not a Sora cheerleader in that game. Sure, they look exactly alike, but who cares!
 

*TwilightNight*

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I honestly wish Riku/Riku Replica was a more popular ship. Their interactions in KH3 are the only times where Riku actually feels like an actual character and not a Sora cheerleader in that game. Sure, they look exactly alike, but who cares!

He doesn't look like a girl, therefore it's not valid by shipping standards.

Riku/Repliku's relationship is pretty neat though, and they made it develop well. It was the best part for Riku in KHIII, for sure.
 

Elysium

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I've definitely read fics of those. To me, Riku/Repliku and Riku/Roxas are ships that are too sad for me to think about. Repliku would be pining to be real with Riku, whereas the latter is Riku pining for Sora yet not being able to have the real thing...

@welken: Wow, I'm right there with almost all the pairings you listed. If I didn't love Belle, I'd totally ship Beast (in human form) with Dilan, lol... It would have the potential to be a great story in the right hands, too, if set during the Days time period. Xaldin's interactions with Beast would trigger the re-growing of his heart (literally) while Beast re-grows his heart (metaphorically).
 

Clue.Less

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@welken: Wow, I'm right there with almost all the pairings you listed. If I didn't love Belle, I'd totally ship Beast (in human form) with Dilan, lol... It would have the potential to be a great story in the right hands, too, if set during the Days time period. Xaldin's interactions with Beast would trigger the re-growing of his heart (literally) while Beast re-grows his heart (metaphorically).

*reads this, pictures it, searches AO3, skims through the two fics about this ship*

... Alright. But this would have to be a big AU because Xaldin's manipulation of Beast in KH2 makes the ship dark and unhealthy as hell. Write it? :D
 

Idreamaboutcats

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I’m surprised SoKai won the previous poll too. I could never tell if the favorability of SoRiku here was genuine praise for the way their chemistry was written or just, pardon my words, plain gay pandering. For the life of me I can’t see any single notion of romance in their dynamic except for the “Sound Idea” bit in DDD.

I guess, but I don't see it. Xion is more like Kairi than Naminè is (well, KHI/KHII Kairi, not this KHIII declawed Kairi), but the sass level isn't fully there. Which was the appeal [to me].

I actually miss shade throwing Kairi. Haters gave her shit for it to no end, but she was at least mildly interesting and Aerith-esque.

I kinda see it. Remember, Xion is the way Sora sees Kairi, his most important memory (though I don’t know where the eff that brunette hair came from). The Rokushi shippers probably connected the dots that since Roxas is half of Sora and Xion is the “idealized” Kairi the way Sora saw her, blah blah blah the rest is shipping history, and the whole “who else will I eat ice cream with?” Speaking of, wasn’t there a line in the novel where he used the word “love” to refer to a girl? I just can’t remember WHICH girl he’s talking about.

I miss that Kairi too. Dang her KH1 iteration was probably the last decent writing she had, and that was as a damsel in distress. KH2 was okay but lacking in that je ne sais quoi, then it all went downhill from there.

Mark my words, it's going to get very weird once family starts becoming a prominent theme in the story, as I believe it will should the series soldier on through the coming years.

I’m still waiting for Sora to eat the dinner his mom made, or her to freak out that her son disappeared for a year, and then disappeared again for another year after having him back for, I dunno, a week?

Real life version of Naminè then, gotcha.

Mmm, not a good comparison unless you’re into red baseball caps and being ruled over by a cheese puff.

I honestly wish Riku/Riku Replica was a more popular ship. Their interactions in KH3 are the only times where Riku actually feels like an actual character and not a Sora cheerleader in that game. Sure, they look exactly alike, but who cares!
 

Oracle Spockanort

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The vote wasn’t that far apart between SoKai and SoRiku, guys. And it was from less than 50 votes. I really don’t think that is a great sample size for votes and the poll wasn’t made to be a serious end-all debate thing. It certainly wouldn’t indicate anything like intent, “gay pandering”, or anything else that you guys want to use to disprove or prove your side of the debate. It’s a silly, fun poll.
 

Idreamaboutcats

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The vote wasn’t that far apart between SoKai and SoRiku, guys. And it was from less than 50 votes. I really don’t think that is a great sample size for votes and the poll wasn’t made to be a serious end-all debate thing. It certainly wouldn’t indicate anything like intent, “gay pandering”, or anything else that you guys want to use to disprove or prove your side of the debate. It’s a silly, fun poll.

Sorry about that. What I meant wasn’t anything against or for any ship, but rather trying to figure out what it is others see that’s romantic in a particular ship, in this case, Sora and Riku, since I don’t understand it. Certainly nothing malicious, and I think a lot of ships are fun and/or funny, though I carefully try to keep restrained on that kind of thing.

I have to admit that I am a little wary of pandering though, since the disaster that is Voltron and its really gross and obsessed shipping fandom. I’ll try to be a lot less severe and pessimistic about these things.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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Sorry about that. What I meant wasn’t anything against or for any ship, but rather trying to figure out what it is others see that’s romantic in a particular ship, in this case, Sora and Riku, since I don’t understand it. Certainly nothing malicious, and I think a lot of ships are fun and/or funny, though I carefully try to keep restrained on that kind of thing.

I have to admit that I am a little wary of pandering though, since the disaster that is Voltron and its really gross and obsessed shipping fandom. I’ll try to be a lot less severe and pessimistic about these things.

Never speak of VLD in this hallowed house or I might start ranting about how I never want to see anything about Sheith, Klance, Lotura, Allurance, or any discussion about S8 ever 😭😭😭 my heart is still broken

I feel you on that, though. Shipping really destroyed that fandom. I don’t think KH will be hit with anything like that, though. For all of the talk Sokai and Soriku fans do, I don’t think anybody will be violently mad at whatever comes to pass in the future.

If I were not overwhelmed with a busy job and prepping for an promotion interview tomorrow, I’d take the time to properly write a meta on Soriku and why people ship it but alas...I will say that it mostly has to do with the plethora of interactions they have had over the years and how deep their bond is. For many, they see it as an ideal romance because it is formed on a strong foundation that took years to be built up. We see it happen as the games progress.

Everybody see romance differently and has an ideal romance in their heads. To me that is two people with a strong friendship and a lot of intimacy. Sora and Riku have that in spades.
 
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Idreamaboutcats

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Never speak of VLD in this hallowed house or I might start ranting about how I never want to see anything about Sheith, Klance, Lotura, Allurance, or any discussion about S8 ever 😭😭😭 my heart is still broken

Agreed.

Everybody seems romance differently and has an ideal romance in their heads. To me that is two people with a strong friendship and a lot of intimacy. Sora and Riku have that in spades.

See, that’s the thing. For me, I see the friendship but not the intimacy. I don’t see paopu or ice cream sharing, etc. I think I can recall two instances of what I could interpret as intimate. After their final battle in 2 when they agreed to be the darkness together while the rest are safe back home, and of course, the Sound Idea thing. I can’t find other instances of intimacy, or anything else that isn’t just really close friendship. Maybe my sense of intimacy is whacked. I heard 358 and DDD are basically shipping exposition for those two, but to me, him going far for Sora in 358 to the point of being Ansem SoD again seems more like a mix of penitence and brotherhood than anything romantic. I should rewatch DDD again and try to understand their dynamic better.
 

*TwilightNight*

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I kinda see it. Remember, Xion is the way Sora sees Kairi, his most important memory (though I don’t know where the eff that brunette hair came from). The Rokushi shippers probably connected the dots that since Roxas is half of Sora and Xion is the “idealized” Kairi the way Sora saw her, blah blah blah the rest is shipping history, and the whole “who else will I eat ice cream with?” Speaking of, wasn’t there a line in the novel where he used the word “love” to refer to a girl? I just can’t remember WHICH girl he’s talking about.

I miss that Kairi too. Dang her KH1 iteration was probably the last decent writing she had, and that was as a damsel in distress. KH2 was okay but lacking in that je ne sais quoi, then it all went downhill from there.

They hold unto that, yes, but Xion is basically a Sora replica at the core and part of him as much as Roxas is (and Axel actually states in his journal that Xion is the replica of Sora's Nobody i.e. Roxas). That "ice cream" line is also different in Japanese and actually includes Axel as a mention, which was a point of contention because everyone was like, what, Axel is chopped liver? He wasn't. I don't know why the localization team made it that way honestly.

And I have no idea, I never read the novels. You might have to ask one of the users that reads them. I know in the game proper Xion said she loved Axel and Roxas.

I wouldn't be surprised though. Xion is basically Tomoco Kanemaki's baby, it's her creation. Only reason Xion has black hair is because Kanemaki wanted a black haired female, there's literally no other reason. She admitted as much. I call Xion her self insert personally. Bias would definitely be there where she has full creative control.

It's funny because fans still hated on Kairi at the time, I never agreed that she didn't have a personality because she did. I think in this fanbase, Kairi can't really win. She's always gonna have detractors I feel.

Mmm, not a good comparison unless you’re into red baseball caps and being ruled over by a cheese puff.

I just finally Googled her at this point. Lol. Cheese puffs are good though, the poor snacks.

Hey, if Sora and Pooh's hand holding scene featured flower petals spinning around them with added slow motion, I'd declare myself captain of the Poora armada.

If Sora wasn't pushed towards Kairi, I would think Aqua reaching for Sora's hand in a close-up within water as rays of the sun shone through would be romantic, but here we are.

It's why my previous post mentioned the very thin line about friendship and romance in KH and Nomura's mindset about it, as well as what the contrasts are. Because it seems his perspective is marginally different than what others see as "romantic".
 

Absent

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I'm slowly losing interest in soriku but I'll never abandon my take that Riku is definitely queer. In the novels, I found Riku is presented as this outsider trying to find redemption but what's interesting to me is that he's not doing it for himself. CoM and 2 heavily imply that he's bettering himself for Sora. Case and point, Sora is always compared and associated with the light(CoM's prologue for Riku spells it out). That light is redemption, the happy ending he wants. I think it's not a coincidence that its personified as someone dear to Riku(this has more weight when you remember that Kairi is Sora's light).
Also who can forget that iconic moment in KH2's novel when Axel straight up asks him what Sora means to him.

Also this.
"The things that mattered the most were what he couldn’t tell Sora. It had always been that way.”

Conclusion, novel!Riku is queer.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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I'm slowly losing interest in soriku but I'll never abandon my take that Riku is definitely queer. In the novels, I found Riku is presented as this outsider trying to find redemption but what's interesting to me is that he's not doing it for himself. CoM and 2 heavily imply that he's bettering himself for Sora. Case and point, Sora is always compared and associated with the light(CoM's prologue for Riku spells it out). That light is redemption, the happy ending he wants. I think it's not a coincidence that its personified as someone dear to Riku(this has more weight when you remember that Kairi is Sora's light).
Also who can forget that iconic moment in KH2's novel when Axel straight up asks him what Sora means to him.

Also this.


Conclusion, novel!Riku is queer.

Honestly, to a degree I am the same. I don’t think KH3 helped any with kind of side-lining Riku, but also I always think about the big sacrifice Riku does for Sora and how frustrating that divide was.

We have Riku who believes so much in Sora, and then we have Sora who—yes, has seen all of his friends get killed right in his face—tell Riku he is all alone even though Riku is right there.

I love that entire scene, but I think for the first time since I actually started liking Soriku did I feel like Riku was chasing after something he couldn’t have and that he wasn’t valued as a pillar of support. Imagine going through so many trials and tribulations, standing by somebody’s side and defending them at every corner, believing in them so much that you would die fighting for them. And then imagine that person saying they have nothing and nobody when you’re standing right next to them.

Like damn, that hurts.

Even when Sora had nothing, he had Riku. (Can you tell I just binged the Captain America films?)

I love that Riku still shows Sora how much he believes in him throughout the rest of KH3 and ReMind—he is always believing in Sora even when he is feeling at his lowest—but man KH3 showed me that Sora does not value Riku enough at all which kills me considering everything that Riku has done for him...it’s actually upsetting Sora doesn’t even realize the extent of Riku’s devotion lol.

I guess as the viewer we see it, but still.

And now I’ve lost what I’ve been trying to lead up to by responding but it is 6am so I am only half-awake.

I think I was going to say I still like Soriku but it’s been a waning interest bc of KH3 and Remind, but yes I agree Riku is definitely queer. I hope it was intentional and not accidental queer-coding, though. At least we know in the novels it was very intentional by Kanemaki...
 

Oracle Spockanort

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The first mistake was not ignoring most of KH3's story. The second mistake was not saying a lot of very mean, super duper naughty words about the scene where everyone gets stomped by a lot of shadow heartless.

I already did that in 2019. This is 2020 me where I care too much about KH3.
 

Beyond

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I do only care about Sora and Riku as a ship (since KH1, since I was 14).
But yeah, after KH3 and expecially Re:Mind (that I played only recently, cause I really think Square should learn a lesson about
place prices) I'm start to thinking that Riku deserves better.
Sora doesn't really recognize his value.
The problem is that, deep down in my heart, I still have hope for them or - at least - for Riku to be out as gay.
I usually don't think about KH for months, but when a new title is announced I catch up with the story of mobile games and I start looking for informations on the new one and when I end up playing it, inevitably, I feel bad (of course, not like when I was 14) if Sora and Riku don't interact as I would like.
So, Nomura, do something: give Riku a boyfriend, make Sora and Riku indisputably canonical or kill my hope for good and do it with Sora and Kairi and let them kiss.
Please, cause I am 25 years old - almost 26, and a functional adult: but this stupid saga plays with my nostalgia and it makes me feel like the heroin addict patient I see in psychiatry that, despite having overcome the withdrawal symptoms and the tolerance for the substance of abuse, fall back after years.
Nomura please, SET ME FREE.

And this is just to say that I don't ship in KH, but I do have "a thing" for Sora and Riku for sure. 🙂
 

Idreamaboutcats

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At this point I just want a kiss that isn’t from Disney characters. No, indirect kisses from sharing fruit don’t count. How are indirect kisses a thing anyway?
 

Oracle Spockanort

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At this point I just want a kiss that isn’t from Disney characters. No, indirect kisses from sharing fruit don’t count. How are indirect kisses a thing anyway?

They didn’t even share the same fruit. It was two separate fruits.

Indirect kisses aren’t real xD
 

Oracle Spockanort

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Heck, even Disney characters don't kiss anymore in this series. Did anyone else notice how kissless KH3 was? Rapunzel glomps Eugene instead of making out with him, Hercules and Megara stuck to hugging as well. Yet the credits of both KH1 and KH2 weren't hesitant about it, despite how weird PS2 character models locking lips look.

I'm grateful for it though, because it did a good job in assuring me that Sora and Kairi aren't exchanging saliva in this game. And I was right.

Yeah, KH3 is really weird with this. I don’t know if there was some internal rule change at Disney or something to do with ratings (which...???). It was definitely baffling.
 
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