Nobodies With Hearts

[Smile]

Iknorite? I was going to make a thread regarding this topic, but I guess now I don't have to. I seem to remember two references to Roxas possibly having a heart in KH2 (And KH2 Final Mix. -_-) The first being when Roxas is in the Virtual TT and he passes out, AtW says "His heart is returning... doubtless, he'll awaken very soon." (I could be wrong about that one though, it could be a reference to Sora, but when I first saw it, I interpreted it as Roxas having a heart.) The second, when Axel and Roxas are sitting up on the tower after Sora defeats Roxas in TWTNW, and Axel says "Roxas... you have a heart, don't you?" Both of those references lead me to believe that Roxas actually has a heart, but I could be wrong. Could someone please enlighten me?

~Sonicblur

The first was about Sora. DiZ is very objective oriented, and his objective was to awaken Sora. He'd care about nothing that won't either help his cause, or hinder it - and take it out.

 

[Xebrem]

Nobodies do not have hearts and can act like their careing and stuff (as said in the previous statements).
And, though this may be crazy, I do think Roxas has a 'heart' of some kind.

Roxas said "But, the hearts not something you can see. I've started wondering whether it's something you can't feel either... If so, then..."

I do wish he'd finnished his sentence.

But what I think he was getting at was that the heart is... that Nobodies have a heart of some sort.
How else do they remember past events of their lives when memories are chained together in your heart?

 

[keybladelegacy]

Nobodies do not have hearts and can act like their careing and stuff (as said in the previous statements).
And, though this may be crazy, I do think Roxas has a 'heart' of some kind.

Roxas said "But, the hearts not something you can see. I've started wondering whether it's something you can't feel either... If so, then..."

I do wish he'd finnished his sentence.

But what I think he was getting at was that the heart is... that Nobodies have a heart of some sort.
How else do they remember past events of their lives when memories are chained together in your heart?

I dont believe roxas has a heart if so where would his heart go when he fused with sora. And probably the reason the nobodies have memories of their past life is that the memories of the heart stay within the body and soul.

 

[Smile]

I dont believe roxas has a heart if so where would his heart go when he fused with sora.

Where it came from when they separated, which we also don't know? That's also something to consider, and as long as you can't answer this, you can't rule out Roxas having a Heart, especially not with that basis.

 

[Muse]

But what I think he was getting at was that the heart is... that Nobodies have a heart of some sort.
How else do they remember past events of their lives when memories are chained together in your heart?

Once you become a Heartless, you begin to lose your sense of self and begin to act more on instinct than on logic, right? And while this is going on, your memories are slowly being transferred over to your body and soul or your Nobody.

I don't remember if they actually explained why this happens, but it could be that your heart as a Heartless is incapable of holding memories, it being overrun by darkness and you having no sense of self/rational thought left in you.

 

[Key of Valor]

Once you become a Heartless, you begin to lose your sense of self and begin to act more on instinct than on logic, right? And while this is going on, your memories are slowly being transferred over to your body and soul or your Nobody.

I don't remember if they actually explained why this happens, but it could be that your heart as a Heartless is incapable of holding memories, it being overrun by darkness and you having no sense of self/rational thought left in you.

It could be implied from Ansem's Reports that memories flow out of heart into the Nobodies.
Personally though, I don't think this is the case. I think each heart sort of leaves an imprint
on each vessel it is attached, and included in this imprint are the memories. Even without
a heart, I think vessels retain this imprint and thus the memories of their formor selves stay
a part of the vessel when it becomes a Nobody.

I'm very convinced that Roxas had a heart and that it is now in Sora by the end of KH2.

 

[Smile]

It could be implied from Ansem's Reports that memories flow out of heart into the Nobodies.
Personally though, I don't think this is the case. I think each heart sort of leaves an imprint
on each vessel it is attached, and included in this imprint are the memories. Even without
a heart, I think vessels retain this imprint and thus the memories of their formor selves stay
a part of the vessel when it becomes a Nobody.

Only this was kind of killed by AtW explaining Roxas having no Memories of Sora's because Sora didn't stay as a Heartless long enough, and Sora attesting to gradually forgetting as a Heartless.
The Memories began to leak, Sora was purified, thus the process was cut short.
However, it eventually began a new, and Roxas began having dreams of Sora's Memories even when he was still in the Organization.

I'm very convinced that Roxas had a heart and that it is now in Sora by the end of KH2.

Well, wouldn't be the first time Sora's had two Hearts in his Body, but if that's the case, I'm still waiting to hear where it came from, and if it was there from the get go, how come it didn't leave Sora's Body like Kairi's and his Hearts did.

 

[Muse]

Only this was kind of killed by AtW explaining Roxas having no Memories of Sora's because Sora didn't stay as a Heartless long enough, and Sora attesting to gradually forgetting as a Heartless.
The Memories began to leak, Sora was purified, thus the process was cut short.
However, it eventually began a new, and Roxas began having dreams of Sora's Memories even when he was still in the Organization.



Well, wouldn't be the first time Sora's had two Hearts in his Body, but if that's the case, I'm still waiting to hear where it came from, and if it was there from the get go, how come it didn't leave Sora's Body like Kairi's and his Hearts did.

Or why Sora didn't have strange visions of places he had never seen/been to as a result of a foreign object being in his body, such as the case was with Kairi's heart. LiLo and I were talking about this in a thread about Sora having Ven's heart. But what I'm saying is Sora's body was reacting to Kairi's heart being in it (or the other way around), which is why Sora had those visions of Kairi throughout the game.

 

[Byronic Hero]

Well, wouldn't be the first time Sora's had two Hearts in his Body, but if that's the case, I'm still waiting to hear where it came from, and if it was there from the get go, how come it didn't leave Sora's Body like Kairi's and his Hearts did.

I thought sora was a heart beceuse of what Kairi did. So that would mean that sora is made up of A Heart created when Kairi saved him, Roxas's body, and Roxas's heart. Correct?

 

[Smile]

Or why Sora didn't have strange visions of places he had never seen/been to as a result of a foreign object being in his body, such as the case was with Kairi's heart. LiLo and I were talking about this in a thread about Sora having Ven's heart. But what I'm saying is Sora's body was reacting to Kairi's heart being in it (or the other way around), which is why Sora had those visions of Kairi throughout the game.

Well, we don't really know how Ven's Heart would've gotten there in the first place, so we can't just assume it would be the same. Ven wanted to be Erased for whatever that meant, so his Heart just might be dormant.
And for that part, we were at least never told that Riku saw any visions of XH. Yes, there was the struggle for dominance, but as for Memories or anything of the sort leaking over, we never got as much as a hint.
So I don't think we really can rule that out on that account.

I thought sora was a heart beceuse of what Kairi did. So that would mean that sora is made up of A Heart created when Kairi saved him, Roxas's body, and Roxas's heart. Correct?

Sora :
B + S + 2 x H + "Nobody" Kairi ->
Heartless + Roxas + Kairi ->
Sora as a Heart + Roxas + Kairi ->
Sora/Roxas + Kairi.
Throw in another H into the equations and we get originally 3 x H, (Roxas + H), and then (Sora + 2 x H)

 

[Insomniac]

If all of those Hearts were within Sora then why was only Heart released from Sora when he released Kairi's Heart?

 

[Smile]

Because that's the Heart that didn't disappear into Darkness, being Kairi's.
Sora's own went on to become a Heartless.
If he really had a third Heart in his Body, especially if it somehow went along with Roxas, we wouldn't really get to see it.

 

[Insomniac]

Sora's Heart gave in to the Darkness. Kairi's Heart was seen returning to her Body and Soul. Sora's Body and Soul appeared to be the small orbs of light that came from him as he vanished. So it would seem like we would have seen a third Heart somewhere. It would have most likely left with it's corresponding Body and Soul but, since they went to become Roxas then it would have been seen going to Roxas or it's state of suspension. Since a Heart with no Body or Soul goes into a state of suspension. Until it can rejoin with that Body and Soul.

 

[Lunos]

Heyo ^^

I just registered in KHI-Forums to throw post some of my thoughts about some important topics of Kingdom Hearts and to get some arguments against them.

First of all: Apologise for my poor English, I live in Germany, so English is not my first language.

Back to Topic: I want to ask those who think nobodies are not able to have a heart, how they want to explain the feelings and the personality of Roxas. We all know, nobodies create their personality and imitate feelings with their memories of their somebodies, in this case Sora. But how was Roxas able to do this although he didn't have any memories of Sora at all. You can't controvert that he doesn't have a personality and (fake-)feelings at all. So, if there weren't any memories to form Roxas' character, there would have been something different that makes him the way he is... Right, a heart.

So.. There have to be a fault in my thoughts, if Roxas does not have a heart..

 

[WilliamTheWise]

Heyo ^^

I just registered in KHI-Forums to throw post some of my thoughts about some important topics of Kingdom Hearts and to get some arguments against them.

Welcome to KHI

I'm William The Wise, but you can call me WTW.
You should read the FAQ first
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If you follow the rules and don't do anything stupid you'll get along with most people fine.
I hope you enjoy your time here
If you need a friend feel free to PM me.​

Back to Topic: I want to ask those who think nobodies are not able to have a heart, how they want to explain the feelings and the personality of Roxas. We all know, nobodies create their personality and imitate feelings with their memories of their somebodies, in this case Sora. But how was Roxas able to do this although he didn't have any memories of Sora at all. You can't controvert that he doesn't have a personality and (fake-)feelings at all. So, if there weren't any memories to form Roxas' character, there would have been something different that makes him the way he is... Right, a heart.

So.. There have to be a fault in my thoughts, if Roxas does not have a heart..

Roxas doesn't have a heart. Like you said Nobodies use the memories of their others to create a their presonality. Now the emotions Roxas had in the fake Twilight town were created by DiZ to prevent the Organization from locationing him. He did so to hopefully delay the Org. from finding him while Sora recovered. Now Roxas's presonality before this time might have been created from his time interacting with people in other worlds. So in a way Roxas might create his own personality by copying the people in other worlds he meets.

 

[Elyk Sivad]

thx for the help this forum is now closed.

 

[Muse]

You closed the forum? Oh noes! D: What we do now? Oh... wait. You meant the thread.

 

[keybladelegacy]

Heyo ^^

I just registered in KHI-Forums to throw post some of my thoughts about some important topics of Kingdom Hearts and to get some arguments against them.

First of all: Apologise for my poor English, I live in Germany, so English is not my first language.

Back to Topic: I want to ask those who think nobodies are not able to have a heart, how they want to explain the feelings and the personality of Roxas. We all know, nobodies create their personality and imitate feelings with their memories of their somebodies, in this case Sora. But how was Roxas able to do this although he didn't have any memories of Sora at all. You can't controvert that he doesn't have a personality and (fake-)feelings at all. So, if there weren't any memories to form Roxas' character, there would have been something different that makes him the way he is... Right, a heart.

So.. There have to be a fault in my thoughts, if Roxas does not have a heart..

Well roxas is a special nobody that has no memories. But it is possible that he has a heart. But....

1. Where would he get the heart.
2. Sora is roxas heart.
3. Soras memories affect xion appearance through roxas.

But if the memories of sora goes to roxas then maybe he could have emotions from those memories.
The other side of soras heart still sleep.

 

[Lifes.Lover]

The thread isn't closed either.

I think the reason that Roxas was able to emulate feelings in a way that was much like that of the other members, even though he didn't have memories to pretend with, is because I believe that memories can also imprint on the soul, and while he doesn't remember them, he can act accordingly using that imprint.

Much like, even though Sora does not remember anything about his time during CoM, you can see how it changed him in small ways.

This is just my theory, though.

Also, it could be that he felt because his Somebody still existed, even though Sora was merely a pure heart during the time that he was alive.

 

[RuffPuff]

You closed the forum? Oh noes! D: What we do now? Oh... wait. You meant the thread.

Lol.!

thx for the help this forum is now closed.

Not yet it aint.