Lying

[Phoenix]

Lying is a sin, guys, and we should stop it. I will prove it is a sin:

Leviticus 6:1-4, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, If a soul sin, and commit a trespass against the LORD, and lie unto his neighbour…or hath deceived his neighbour…and lieth concerning it, and sweareth falsely; in any of all these that a man doeth, sinning therein: Then it shall be, because he hath sinned, and is guilty,"

Leviticus 19:11, "Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another."

Job 11:3,5, "Should thy lies make men hold their peace? and when thou mockest, shall no man make thee ashamed? But oh that God would speak, and open his lips against thee;"

Job 13:4, "But ye are forgers of lies, ye are all physicians of no value."

Job 24:25, "...who will make me a liar, and make my speech nothing worth?"

Psalms 24:4-5, "He…who hath not…sworn deceitfully. He shall receive the blessing from the LORD,"

Psalms 31:6, "I have hated them that regard lying vanities: but I trust in the LORD."

Psalms 31:18, "Let the lying lips be put to silence;"

Psalms 40:4, "Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies."

Psalms 52:2-4, "Thy tongue deviseth mischiefs; like a sharp razor, working deceitfully. Thou lovest evil more than good; and lying rather than to speak righteousness. Selah. Thou lovest all devouring words, O thou deceitful tongue."

Psalms 58:3, "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies."

Psalms 59:12, "For the sin of their mouth and the words of their lips let them even be taken in their pride: and for cursing and lying which they speak."

Psalms 62:3-4, "… ye shall be slain all of you…they delight in lies: they bless with their mouth, but they curse inwardly."

Psalms 63:11, "...the mouth of them that speak lies shall be stopped."

Psalms 101:7, "He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house: he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight."

Psalms 109:2, "For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue."

Psalms 119:29, "Remove from me the way of lying: and grant me thy law graciously."

Psalms 119:69, "The proud have forged a lie against me: but I will keep thy precepts with my whole heart."

Psalms 119:163, "I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love."

Psalms 120:2, "Deliver my soul, O LORD, from lying lips, and from a deceitful tongue."

Proverbs 6:16-19, "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

Proverbs 8:7, "For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips."

Proverbs 10:18, "He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool."

Proverbs 12:19, "The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment."

Proverbs 12:22, "Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight."

Proverbs 13:5, "A righteous man hateth lying: but a wicked man is loathsome, and cometh to shame."

Proverbs 14:5, "A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies."

Proverbs 14:25, "A true witness delivereth souls: but a deceitful witness speaketh lies."

Proverbs 17:4, "A wicked doer giveth heed to false lips; and a liar giveth ear to a naughty tongue."

Proverbs 17:7, "Excellent speech becometh not a fool: much less do lying lips a prince."

Proverbs 19:5, "A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape."

Proverbs 19:9, "A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish."

Proverbs 19:22, "The desire of a man is his kindness: and a poor man is better than a liar."

Proverbs 21:6, "The getting of treasures by a lying tongue is a vanity tossed to and fro of them that seek death."

Proverbs 26:28, "A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it; and a flattering mouth worketh ruin."

Proverbs 29:12, "If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked."

Proverbs 30:6, "Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."

Proverbs 30:8, "Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:"

Isaiah 28:15,17, "Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement;…for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:…the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place."

Isaiah 30:9, "That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:"

Isaiah 32:7, "The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right."

Isaiah 44:24-25, "…I am the LORD…That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad;"

Isaiah 59:2-4, "But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. For…your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness...they trust in vanity, and speak lies; "

Isaiah 59:12-13, "For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them; In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood."

Isaiah 63:8, "For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour."

Jeremiah 7:4, "Trust ye not in lying words,"

Jeremiah 7:8-9, "Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit. Will ye…swear falsely…and walk after other gods…?"

Jeremiah 9:3, "And they bend their tongues like their bow for lies: but they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth; for they proceed from evil to evil, and they know not me, saith the LORD."

Jeremiah 9:5, "And they will deceive every one his neighbour, and will not speak the truth: they have taught their tongue to speak lies, and weary themselves to commit iniquity."

Jeremiah 14:14, "Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart."

Jeremiah 15:18, "Why is my pain perpetual, and my wound incurable, which refuseth to be healed? wilt thou be altogether unto me as a liar, and as waters that fail?"

Jeremiah 16:19, "...Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit."

Jeremiah 23:14, "I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies:"

Jeremiah 23:26, "How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;"

Jeremiah 23:32, "Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD."

Jeremiah 27:10, "For they prophesy a lie unto you, to remove you far from your land; and that I should drive you out, and ye should perish."

Jeremiah 29:23, "Because they have committed villany in Israel, and have committed adultery with their neighbours' wives, and have spoken lying words in my name, which I have not commanded them; even I know, and am a witness, saith the LORD."

Ezekiel 13:8, "Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD."

Ezekiel 13:19, "And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?"

Ezekiel 13:22-23, "Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life: Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD."

Ezekiel 22:28, "And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken."

Ezekiel 24:12, "She hath wearied herself with lies, and her great scum went not forth out of her: her scum shall be in the fire."

Daniel 11:27, "…and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper:"

Hosea 4:2, "By swearing, and lying…they break out and blood toucheth blood."

Hosea 7:3, "They make the king glad with their wickedness, and the princes with their lies."

Hosea 10:13, "Ye have plowed wickedness, ye have reaped iniquity; ye have eaten the fruit of lies: because thou didst trust in thy way, in the multitude of thy mighty men."

Jonah 2:8, "They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy."

Micah 6:12-13, "…the inhabitants thereof have spoken lies, and their tongue is deceitful in their mouth. Therefore also will I make thee sick in smiting thee, in making thee desolate because of thy sins."

Nahum 3:1, "Woe to the bloody city! it is all full of lies"

Zephaniah 3:13, "The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth:"

Zechariah 8:16, "These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour;"

Zechariah 13:3, "...Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: "

Malachi 2:6, "The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips:"

Matthew 15:19, "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts…false witness…These are the things which defile a man: "

John 8:44, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Acts 5:3, "...why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, "

Acts 26:25, "But he [Paul] said, I am not mad, most noble Festus; but speak forth the words of truth and soberness."

Romans 1:24-25, "…through the lusts of their own hearts…Who changed the truth of God into a lie,"

Romans 9:1, "I say the truth in Christ, I lie not,"

2 Corinthians 11:31, "The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not."

Galatians 1:20, "Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not."

Ephesians 4:25, "Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another."

Colossians 3:9, "Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;"

1 Timothy 1:9-10, "…the law is not made for a righteous man, but…for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"

1 Timothy 2:7, "Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not)"

1 Timothy 4:2, "Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;"

James 3:14, "But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth."

Titus 1:2, "...God…cannot lie, "

Hebrews 6:18, "...in which it was impossible for God to lie, "

1 John 1:6, "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"

1 John 2:4, "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

1 John 2:21, "I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth."

1 John 2:22, "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son."

1 John 2:27, "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

1 John 4:20, "If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?"

Revelation 2:2, "…thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:"

Revelation 3:9, "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which…do lie;"

Revelation 21:8, "…and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:"

Revelation 21:27, "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."

Revelation 22:14-15, "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are…whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

I have 100 times the verses on lying than I have on homosexuality, so lying should be 100 times worse!

It is said that 4 billion people out of 6 billion people have actually lied once.... and the 2 billion are just babies! Lying is obviously a widespread problem, far outpacing homosexual marriage, abortion and even the dreaded stem cell research. So I propose that we all shut up about homosexuals, pro-choicers and satanic symbols in role-playing games and start focusing on the sins that are obviously gripping the world.

I'll do you one better: I've heard that liars can even get married in a Church... and nobody even cares their liars! In fact, even people of faith have taken up the mantle of the liar:

"I got an A on my test mom"

"That dress looks real good on you, Darcy"

"No, I didn't read a summary, I read the real book"

"Yeah, I went to sleep at 8 PM"

Filthy stinking lies told throughout the whole world, and do people care? NO! I blame the liberal media.

I've made my case. Will you join me in my crusade to stop the most common, and as such, the most threatening sin on God's green Earth?

 

[Forever Atlas]

Well I agree with you on that. Its so easy to get caught up in doing it because its around us like the air we breathe. If anyone says they've never lied then Im going to think more that that statement is a lie. The Bible does warn about it. We just have to try our best though many times its so hard to tell the truth. Most people dont even think twice about it. Children are lied to from very young "oh santa brought you these gifts" for example. Thus from very young they are taught its okay. In the business word most power is recieved by dishonest means. Its just everywhere.

Satan is the father of the lie and the ruler of this world. So as time goes on... itll continue to get worse. There was a time when it existed but not to this degree. Even when most of us were younger as kids we might have pointed out the liar and looked down on it. Now its normal for even the smallest of us to lie... what we used to consider the innocent years.

All in all what used to be a "no-no" is looked at as okay today.

Dont get me wrong... lying has always been around a lot. But at least there was a time where more people cared. Now its like.... "oh well... Its life. Its normal"



But I must ask.... why make it sound like you believe in God and thus the concept of sin?

 

[Lycanthrope]

Everyone is prone to lying. It's essentially human nature to lie to avoid conflicts.

 

[Forever Atlas]

^ But it sure doesnt make it right, even if you dont believe in sin or God.... 99% of us at one time or another have felt it was wrong to lie at one time in our lives.

Or maybe not.... the world is so far past moral sense that that statement might not even be true >.>

 

[KingBlade]

Lying can save your life. So, I will do it.

But, most people lie to keep an even keel. They are scared of the outcome of their actions and don't want to see it unfold. Its human nature, and no book is gonna stop people from lying. People lie all the time, "How are you feeling?" , "I'm great" but, I feel like shit. Whether, we lie to each other or we lie to ourselves, we're still lying. I think, its part of human nature for human beings to lie, we are an imperfect species. And yes you should tell the truth but, not because a book told you so, because it is the moral thing to do.

 

[Draco Meteora]

Oh man, that's great.

Someone should make that into a pamphlet and pass it around church.

 

[Princess Natalia]

Lying is very wrong, but sometimes it almost seems necessary. Avoid hurting ppls feeling, conflict, doing something you really dont want to do. Its the easy way out really.

 

[Nyangoro]

Lying is very wrong, but sometimes it almost seems necessary. Avoid hurting ppls feeling, conflict, doing something you really dont want to do. Its the easy way out really.

Thing is, if the person finds out you lied to them (or that you knew, but said nothing), then that person will be pretty upset about.

 

[Dark Shards]

I see lying as one of the most useful tools in the world if you are good at it. When I lie I very rarly feel bad because I know that everybody lies, it is human nature too.

 

[nelly <3]

I'm always honest if someone asks for my opinion, shit, I don't care if I hurt your feelings. (their) the ones that asked for it.

Anyways, everybody does it, everybody lies, who the fck cares if they do or don't.

Sure lying can be hurtful, but we all tend to say things we don't mean (hopefully)

As for me, I used to be a compulsive liar when I was little. But, I grew out of it. I've learned to be more real to myself. I'm not proud of what I did before, but telling the truth makes me feel a lot better. But hey, I learned from it.
As for now, The only times when I lie, Is if I'm really doing something with my friends, coming home really late, I'd tell my mom I'm usually at school working on some project or at Choir rehearsal.

That's it. I know I've cut down the lying a lot,

But point and case is: everybody lies, so don't trip about it. Unless if it was a major catastrophe that will cause a huge conflict.

yup.

Oh, and I'm gonna get married to a woman one of these days.
and I don't see a problem with that.

 

[square-enix]

Remind me which members are the ones that consistently post Bible verses as their argument and/or truth. They should get a kick out of seeing those passages.

 

[Nyangoro]

I'm always honest if someone asks for my opinion, shit, I don't care if I hurt your feelings. (their) the ones that asked for it.

Anyways, everybody does it, everybody lies, who the fck cares if they do or don't.

Lol, gotta love the "Well, everyone else is doing it!" excuse.

Oh, and I'm gonna get married to a woman one of these days.

and I don't see a problem with that.

And you brought that up why? There is another thread for that.

 

[big don mega]

^ But it sure doesnt make it right, even if you dont believe in sin or God.... 99% of us at one time or another have felt it was wrong to lie at one time in our lives.

Or maybe not.... the world is so far past moral sense that that statement might not even be true >.>

i'm pretty sure that you statistics are wrong. i think a majority of people who lie don't care if it's wrong or not, i know that when i lie it's for good, so i don't feel one bit bad for it. if someone asks my opinion i usually end up hurting there feelings by telling the truth, that still doesn't stop me, but if something serious is happening and i have to lie to save a life, then i'm going to and i won't feel bad about it

 

[Phoenix]

Well I agree with you on that. Its so easy to get caught up in doing it because its around us like the air we breathe. If anyone says they've never lied then Im going to think more that that statement is a lie. The Bible does warn about it. We just have to try our best though many times its so hard to tell the truth. Most people dont even think twice about it. Children are lied to from very young "oh santa brought you these gifts" for example. Thus from very young they are taught its okay. In the business word most power is recieved by dishonest means. Its just everywhere.

Satan is the father of the lie and the ruler of this world. So as time goes on... itll continue to get worse. There was a time when it existed but not to this degree. Even when most of us were younger as kids we might have pointed out the liar and looked down on it. Now its normal for even the smallest of us to lie... what we used to consider the innocent years.

All in all what used to be a "no-no" is looked at as okay today.

Dont get me wrong... lying has always been around a lot. But at least there was a time where more people cared. Now its like.... "oh well... Its life. Its normal"



But I must ask.... why make it sound like you believe in God and thus the concept of sin?

You missed the point, actually. My question is why is it that people make a bigger deal out of homosexual marriage than they do about lying when all sins are equal in the eyes of the Lord? I don't see families breaking down because they found out their child is a liar, yet homosexuality is somehow different?

Everyone is prone to lying. It's essentially human nature to lie to avoid conflicts.

Human nature > the word of God?

But, most people lie to keep an even keel. They are scared of the outcome of their actions and don't want to see it unfold. Its human nature, and no book is gonna stop people from lying. People lie all the time, "How are you feeling?" , "I'm great" but, I feel like shit. Whether, we lie to each other or we lie to ourselves, we're still lying. I think, its part of human nature for human beings to lie, we are an imperfect species. And yes you should tell the truth but, not because a book told you so, because it is the moral thing to do.

Indeed. My question is simply that why do people make a bigger deal out of the other sins when all sins are supposedly equal?

Someone should make that into a pamphlet and pass it around church.

You, sir, are full of good ideas.

Lying is very wrong, but sometimes it almost seems necessary. Avoid hurting ppls feeling, conflict, doing something you really dont want to do. Its the easy way out really.

Hay there.

Why don't the self-admitted homophobes in the forums come to this thread? It makes Pho cry


See, the point of this thread was just this. Lying is justified because it's human nature, but homosexuality isn't because.... it's evil human nature? If the Bible says all sins are equal, why aren't the people in this forum who say every 3 posts "Yeah, homosexuality makes God cry" just as concerned about lying? Hell, it should be even worse, since lying is obviously more widespread.

The answer is obvious, of course. The people who whine about homosexuality have a personal problem with it and use the Bible to justify their homophobia.

Also, some of you, lrn2sarcasm :<

 

[Forever Atlas]

^ Not all sins are equal in the Bible. I'd post more but I'm on my wii >.>..... A sin is wrong but there are differences in degrees and situations and mental reasoning. For example... you might lie spur of the moment but its may not be something you planned on doing, whereas homosexuality is a choice (the feelings may not be but actual homosexuality is a premeditated unnatural or as many call it "alternative" choice). I'll give my reasons later as I said.... on the wii >.>

There's a reason I didnt get into the homo/bi thread because I cant read minds or hearts so I am not the judge of anyone.

Ill post my reasons... but I guess if this turns into a homo/bi = sin debate I wont waste my time on unproductive bickerings.

 

[Stavvy]

You can't really stop anyone from lying. . .It's just a form of freewill, which God gave us.

From how I've been taught, all sins are equal in the eyes of God, sin is sin, big or small.

 

[Phoenix]

^ Not all sins are equal in the Bible. I'd post more but I'm on my wii >.>..... A sin is wrong but there are differences in degrees and situations and mental reasoning. For example... you might lie spur of the moment but its may not be something you planned on doing, whereas homosexuality is a choice (the feelings may not be but actual homosexuality is a premeditated unnatural or as many call it "alternative" choice). I'll give my reasons later as I said.... on the wii >.>

All sins are not equal? For this I request biblical proof.

However, let's go your way. So you admit that:

Situation A:

"Today was a shitty day, but I won't tell my mom 'cause it'll make her sad"

... is just as sinful as:

Situation B:

Woman plans to have romantic dinner with her girlfriend.

... exactly as sinful as:

Situation C:

Planned sex between guys.

Situation D:

German lies to Nazis about the Jews in his attic to save them.

Situations A, B, C and D each involve planning to commit a sin.


On the flip side, are you saying spontaneous gay sex is ok, or as ok as a spur-of-the-moment lie?

 

[shrekdog]

Oh man, that's great.

Someone should make that into a pamphlet and pass it around church.

I would hand these out .

 

[Sexual White Chocolate]

^Hell, I would pay for that shit at B.A.M.

 

[Oberon]

Lying can technically be considered as untruth. So consider the case of my post as "untruth vs. truth" instead of "lying vs. telling the truth." I dunno. Seems simpler to me.

Lying is a very interesting thing. In terms of simply lying, it can be offensive to a culture, a religion, a persons, and especially in the case of religion. In which case could be offensive to divine principles.

In my opinion, I don't think there is a decent argument in whether lying is "right" or "wrong." In fact, I hardly consider it relevant, religiously or not. Whether or not it's right is subjective and very much arguable in many cases. Suppose a guy holds a gun to your head, and he's really hyped up. He asks you where your friend is. You lie, knowing he'll believe you because he feels that you're in fear of your life. In that case, it didn't matter if it was right and wrong, you did it to survive. In fact, it was all part of a deceptionist tactic to get away and find your friend so the two of you can actually get away. It wouldn't matter now because the criminal is likely to go to jail, right?

I do think we should start telling the truth more often, of course. It's a must. But under conditions resembling life and death, winning and losing, competition, it's possible lying might take place. After all, it's human behavior.

And also, Pho, this thread is very ironic. lul