Let's talk grammar

[Epif]

Something that I notice people don't usually mention when differentiating "lie" and "lay": the past participle. Might as well put the present participle, though I don't think most people mess that one up.

infinitive	simple present (3rd person sg.)	simple past (3rd person sg.)	past participle	present participle
to lie	lies	lays	lain	lying
to lay	lays	laid	laid	laying

Examples:

• Sora lies on the beach at the beginning of Kingdom Hearts.
• Sora lays himself down on the beach for a nap before the game began.
• Sora had lain on the beach many times before the series' beginning.
• Sora is lying during the beach scene in KH1 until he is woken up by Kairi.
• I lay my laptop on the table as I sit down.
• I laid my laptop on the table yesterday, too.
• I have laid my laptop on that table many times before.
• I am laying my laptop on the table as I type this.

It just bugged me that nobody mentions "have lain." It's completely out of nowhere, especially since to lay's p.p. is the same as its simple past.

 

[Cassette-Disk]

Something that I notice people don't usually mention when differentiating "lie" and "lay": the past participle. Might as well put the present participle, though I don't think most people mess that one up.

infinitive	simple present (3rd person sg.)	simple past (3rd person sg.)	past participle	present participle
to lie	lies	lays	lain	lying
to lay	lays	laid	laid	laying

Examples:

• Sora lies on the beach at the beginning of Kingdom Hearts.
• Sora lays himself down on the beach for a nap before the game began.
• Sora had lain on the beach many times before the series' beginning.
• Sora is lying during the beach scene in KH1 until he is woken up by Kairi.
• I lay my laptop on the table as I sit down.
• I laid my laptop on the table yesterday, too.
• I have laid my laptop on that table many times before.
• I am laying my laptop on the table as I type this.

It just bugged me that nobody mentions "have lain." It's completely out of nowhere, especially since to lay's p.p. is the same as its simple past.

This confused me a ton, and I still make these mistakes.

 

[Hidden]

This confused me a ton, and I still make these mistakes.

It confuses pretty much everyone, which is a likely sign that it's on its way out (in spoken usage at least, if not in grammar books and threads like this one).* It's confusing enough that Epif makes two mistakes in his own (very informative) post.

Spoiler Show

But we don't confuse ourselves in all situations! This interesting blog** points out that no one says in confusion, "The island of Madagascar lays several hundred miles off the east coast of southern Africa" or "The hen lies a minimum of seven eggs a week," and certainly no one says "I got lain last night!"

infinitive	simple present (3rd person sg.)	simple past (3rd person sg.)	past participle	present participle
to lie	lies	lays	lain	lying
to lay	lays	laid	laid	laying

I appreciate that you included the past participles, but the simple past of "to lie" (i.e. "lie down") is always "lay," never "lays."

	Present	Past
I	lie	lay
You	lie	lay
She	lies	lay
We	lie	lay
Y'all	lie	lay
They	lie	lay

Therefore, when we come to your second example:

• Sora lays himself down on the beach for a nap before the game began.

Assuming this is the past tense of "lie," it should read "Sora lay down on the beach for a nap before the game began."

HOWEVER, because you write "Sora lays himself down on the beach," a different pattern emerges--"himself" is a reflexive pronoun (it refers to the subject of the sentence, Sora), and in this case the correct verb would in fact be "lay," ostensibly because he is laying himself (an object) down. Think of the popular children's prayer, "Now I lay me down to sleep...." So assuming we're in the present tense, your sentence is (mostly) correct! "Sora lays himself down on the beach for a nap before the game begins," is a perfectly legitimate present-tense sentence.

Moribund grammar, ladies and gentlemen!

Spoiler Show

ALSO IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR GRAMMAR, WRITING, ETC. I WOULD RECOMMEND INVESTING IN The Elements of Style. ITS AN AMAZING GUIDE AND REALLY HELPED ME WITH MY ENDEAVORS

By chance, that very book was the subject of the comic that inspired the blog I linked above.

 

[KingdomKey]

This confused me a ton, and I still make these mistakes.

I feel the same way. Every time I use lay in a sentence it feels awkward. (I end up opting for something else instead.) And of course, I still make mistakes too. Practice makes perfect, right? C: However this thread is quite helpful! [I'll have to use it more often to use as a reference if, I'm stuck on anything.]

 

[ChibiHearts249]

I'm a super grammar Nazi. It makes all the difference in sentences. This one is my PERSONAL fave. (Caps is easier for me to use than italics, so don't knock me on that!)

Version 1: Let's eat, grandpa!
Version 2: Let's eat grandpa!

You see what I did there? With just a COMMA?! I turned this from a healthy, normal situation into a cannibal/zombie food free-for-all! Who knows who the "let's" stands for in that second sentence? In the first, you assume it's just a kid and grandpa. Now? Could be a horde of ravenous kindergarteners or a Monty Python rabbit. You don't know!!!

Another big thing for me is that both of these are grammatically correct:

1.) This, that, and the other thing.
2.) This, that and the other thing.

I've checked multiple places, and technically they're both correct. I prefer the 1st one, simply because there is a pause before that "and" when we SPEAK it, so there should be a comma, there.

COMMAS, PEOPLE! THEY'LL SAVE SOMEONE'S FREAKING GRANDFATHER!!!

 

[Shasta]

Here's a great, fun way to learn some grammatical tips that will help out in the future. It ranges from standard curriculum, to common, everyday mistakes people make. If you are a fan of Weird Al Yankovic's work, then you could find this both enjoyable as well as educational!
[video=youtube_share;8Gv0H-vPoDc]http://youtu.be/8Gv0H-vPoDc[/video]

 

[Hidden]

I'm a super grammar Nazi. It makes all the difference in sentences. This one is my PERSONAL fave. (Caps is easier for me to use than italics, so don't knock me on that!)

Version 1: Let's eat, grandpa!
Version 2: Let's eat grandpa!

You see what I did there? With just a COMMA?! I turned this from a healthy, normal situation into a cannibal/zombie food free-for-all! Who knows who the "let's" stands for in that second sentence? In the first, you assume it's just a kid and grandpa. Now? Could be a horde of ravenous kindergarteners or a Monty Python rabbit. You don't know!!!

Another big thing for me is that both of these are grammatically correct:

1.) This, that, and the other thing.
2.) This, that and the other thing.

I've checked multiple places, and technically they're both correct. I prefer the 1st one, simply because there is a pause before that "and" when we SPEAK it, so there should be a comma, there.

COMMAS, PEOPLE! THEY'LL SAVE SOMEONE'S FREAKING GRANDFATHER!!!

This is my favorite post of the thread.

In regards to the Oxford comma (in ChibiHearts249's second example, the comma between "that" and "and"), I disagree with (but still laugh at) this argument for why the second comma is necessary:

Spoiler Show

Speaking of things I disagree with but still laugh at.

Here's a great, fun way to learn some grammatical tips that will help out in the future. It ranges from standard curriculum, to common, everyday mistakes people make. If you are a fan of Weird Al Yankovic's work, then you could find this both enjoyable as well as educational!
[video=youtube_share;8Gv0H-vPoDc]http://youtu.be/8Gv0H-vPoDc[/video]

Here is an excellent article on why people disagree with Weird Al's recent viral video, and why some don't find it all that funny. I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy the video (I do), but the article has some good notes on how grammar, education, and just plain mean-spiritedness can intersect.

I admit, I'm a grammar snob and I like to show off (see: every post on this thread). But I do try to call myself out on my own BS, and this helps remind me why that's important.

 

[ChibiHearts249]

Ah, I had forgotten what it was called! Thanks, Hidden!

 

[BlackOsprey]

Well, I just got dragged through two weeks of SAT grammar class, so I've picked up on a few nitpicky things this thread didn't cover.

Who/Which/That

This is fairly simple: use "who" for people, and "that/which" for objects.

- The Dovahkiin, who was traveling to Riften, was ambushed by a sabre cat.

- His shield, which was forged from the hide of slain dragons, stunned the beast when it was bashed against its face.

What to NOT do:

- The mace, who was a menacing spiked club of ebony, struck the cat's jaw.
- The Dovahkiin's companion, a mage that liked setting things alight, hurled a fireball for good measure.

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Pronouns in compound elements

- "Axel and ___ like to eat ice cream," said Roxas.

So, "I" or "me." Which one should be used? "I" should be used if you want to set it as the noun, while "me" should be used as a direct object.
However, you can get the answer right every time (without over-thinking it) if you eliminate the other noun in the sentence and think about which pronoun would sound right on its own. In this case...

- "Axel and I are best friends." Because you wouldn't be saying "Me like to eat ice cream" unless you wanted to sound like a moron, right?

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Semicolons

; is used to connect two complete, related sentences. It's important that the clauses on both sides would be able to stand alone as complete sentences, even if the other one was removed. They also must relate to eachother on their subject. Also note that a semicolon should not be followed by a conjunction.

- The Pokemon trainer cringed as he watched the battle; the kid's Pokemon didn't stand a chance against the Gym Leader's.

- Undeterred, the challenger called forth his last Pokemon with gusto; he didn't seem to think things were going badly.

What to NOT do:

- His last one, a Minccino, was surprisingly fast; and it danced around the flurry of attacks with ease. (No conjunctions!)

- It blasted its foe with a round of Bullet Seed; it was now evening in the town. (Has nothing to do with eachother.)

- The onlooking trainer stared as the unbelievable unfolded before his eyes; the Minccino's victory. (The last clause isn't a complete sentence.)

 

[ChibiHearts249]

Ohgod it's been a year since I made my last post here!? Someone please end me for not being the grammar Nazi I said I was!!! *wails*

I cannot believe how many people say 'alot.' THAT IS NOT A WORD NOR WILL IT EVER BE. Properly it is 'a lot.'

And also...anyone care to clarify 'alright' and 'all right?'
If you didn't also see what I did in my question just now: I put the end apostrophe AFTER my end punctuation even though the question mark was not part of the phrase I was conveying. This is proper and how it is supposed to be, after all! At the same time, I used apostrophes to embolden the words and bring their quoted attention to you. It isn't a quote I extracted from anything, so it gets apostrophes rather than quotation marks.

@BlackOsprey: I love how every one of your examples was completely nerdy.

 

[Annoyance]

To me, in my tired state that I am, and all I can think of at the moment, when I see alright, it's slang for "this is right yes okay" and "all right" is "things are all right with the world."

I may do some research as I'm not 100%, just what feels right to me.

 

[BlackOsprey]

I'm a writer with a very nerdy heart. Plus, I find that it's easier to get grammar lessons across when you put into some interesting context.

Dashes

This little guy, the -, can be used in two different ways to achieve the same effect: add emphasis!

- As Riku started at the door, a glowing shape suddenly appeared on the smooth wood- a keyhole.
In this case, the dash is used to give a dramatic pause before finishing off the sentence.

- "Just open the door- the one in that tiny cave- and you will be free of this place," urged the man in the rough, brown robe.
Here, this info adds some extra context to something (the door), and it could technically be substituted with parenthesis. However, while parenthesis are meant to kind of slip info in, dashes will highlight it, so use it if you want to emphasize that point.

------------------------------

Colons

: looks similar to a semicolon, but they are NOT interchangeable! A colon should only be used if you're about to list off some things.

- Roxas thought about what he liked best: sunsets, Axel, Xion, and ice cream.

How to NOT use it

- Kairi told Sora which supplies he should gather: they were some water, mushrooms, fish, coconuts, and seagull eggs. (Limit the list to the items themselves.)

- Riku had already gathered his share: he was anxious to leave on the raft. (This should be replaced with a semicolon.)

 

[ChibiHearts249]

Colons and semicolons actually have an easier way to consider their usage more than just using them (or not) to list things. When using a colon remember that whatever is on the other side must be its own full sentence with a subject and an action of its own ect. Semi colons separate sentences that are not full.
So using your example the second sentence may not be proper usage because there are better things you could put there, but it's technically not gramatically incorrect.

- I was up all night playing games with my friends; stuff like Rocket League and Terraria and all that hullabaloo. (Correct)
- I guess I can play with you: I suck at this game, though. (Correct)