Kingdom Hearts Nitpicks



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS

DarkosOverlord

Bronze Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
2,808
Awards
4
Age
24
Location
Rome, Italy
  • Keyblade Master
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • The Foreteller
  • Savage Nymph
"Confound those trailer baits! Oh how I hate them!
I hate Aquanort! I hate Lea's Keyblade! And I hate Riku's Keyblade!"



Eraqus' Keyblade seems to be the only one which keeps on carrying on after his owner passed away (unless we count Terra and Ven's Keyblades helping Aqua in the ending of BbS), Idk if it's like that because Eraqus took some precautions and, like, made it so it would pass onto Aqua or something.
I like to think that it's also a special Keyblade not unlike No Name, made to be there and help Wielders of the Light in their struggles. I also have this headcanon that Sora found it on the beach not because of random coincidences and Aqua just leaving there, but because the Keyblade acted sort of like the One Ring and "wanted" to be found by Sora when the time was ripe.
 

Veevee

Active member
Joined
Aug 1, 2017
Messages
737
Awards
8
Location
darkness within darkness
  • Red Travels the Farthest
  • Savage Nymph
  • The Gambler of Fate
  • 15th Anniversary
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5+2.5 ReMIX
  • Unicornis Union
And here we have KH3's biggest issue. Much of KH3's scenes existing solely so the trailers can build hype among the fanbase, but are haphazardly and poorly reasoned (if at all) within context.

Trailer: Oh shit! Aqua got norted!

Game: Nah, she just blocked an attack with her face like a moron, and was injected with sadness juice by Ansem. Which somehow makes her look like she's been norted but actually isn't and she was cured immediately.

Trailer: Oh shit! It's Vanitas!

Game: YEET!

Trailer: Oh shit! Everyone's in trouble!

Game: Oh shit! Everyone's an idiot!

And of course, Riku's Keyblades and a few other things. Nomura NEEDS to spend less time on thinking of things that'd look cool for the trailers and focus more on the story actually being cool. Random crap happening without rhyme or reason isn't fun nor interesting and is only a waste of time and effort on everyone involved.

I seriously don't get to point of establishing something major like this only to pointlessly throw it away for a scene that didn't need him involved. It's not like this was some accident either as even if he was somehow added by accident it's easy to spot and take care of.

Lea's Keyblade breaking would have been just fine and even welcome, and could have maybe made for good story. Xemnas even implied it was fake.

So much this!

Knowing it's a high security key makes the lack of significance even worse.

This either does or doesn't help, but Japan likes abbreviating "W" to "double" and will use it for anything involving two of something, like an ad for a double burger or the Final Fantasy ability to use two items at once being called. So "Kingdom Key W" is likely meant to be read as "Kingdom Key Double".
So much this. I got so frustrated over Lea's keyblade - first he gets one without proper reason (he could've fought with his Chakrams as well - no one ever said you can only be a wielder when you have a keyblade, otherwise the princesses wouldn't have qualified - and then it breaks because it's fake (what?) and suddenly, it's fine again. All in the same game that introduced keyblades breaking in the first place for no reason. That's my biggest issue with the game. Most of it feels pointless because it has no effect on the story and sometimes directly contradicts things that just happened.

And after 15 years, we hardly know anything about keyblades. We know they can be passed down in a ceremony - which is more like a letter of recommendation than an actual thing - and they are divided in the categories light, dark and heart. We see one keyblade of heart in the series (first game) which is able to do the same thing (removing hearts) as Xehanort later does with his normal keyblade (was it ever said which category that one belonged to?). Mickey's Kingdom Key D is a keyblade of darkness, but we see no significant difference to a normal one except for the power to enter the RoD at will which has its convenient first mention in the last game of the series. So what is the point of having three keyblade types if they don't really show differences? Why can keyblades break? How can they be fixed and even upgraded? Why does no one ever really consider that in the first place? And god damn, why is Riku's new keyblade so dumb.

EDIT: I don't mind trailer bait - I do mind trailer bait not paying off in any way.
 
Last edited:

Face My Fears

She's not an "it"!
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
3,250
Awards
0
So much this. I got so frustrated over Lea's keyblade - first he gets one without proper reason (he could've fought with his Chakrams as well - no one ever said you can only be a wielder when you have a keyblade, otherwise the princesses wouldn't have qualified - and then it breaks because it's fake (what?) and suddenly, it's fine again. All in the same game that introduced keyblades breaking in the first place for no reason. That's my biggest issue with the game. Most of it feels pointless because it has no effect on the story and sometimes directly contradicts things that just happened.

And after 15 years, we hardly know anything about keyblades. We know they can be passed down in a ceremony - which is more like a letter of recommendation than an actual thing - and they are divided in the categories light, dark and heart. We see one keyblade of heart in the series (first game) which is able to do the same thing (removing hearts) as Xehanort later does with his normal keyblade (was it ever said which category that one belonged to?). Mickey's Kingdom Key D is a keyblade of darkness, but we see no significant difference to a normal one except for the power to enter the RoD at will which has its convenient first mention in the last game of the series. So what is the point of having three keyblade types if they don't really show differences? Why can keyblades break? How can they be fixed and even upgraded? Why does no one ever really consider that in the first place? And god damn, why is Riku's new keyblade so dumb.

EDIT: I don't mind trailer bait - I do mind trailer bait not paying off in any way.
It was confirmed that Axel's keyblade was fake? The one he uses when it is "fixed" is the "real" one? I am so confused.
 

Zettaflare

Ice Queen
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
10,217
Awards
2
Location
California
  • Anguis Union
  • Nothing's Like Before
I could have forgiven Braveheart's design if Riku could have turned it into a badass motorcycle or Car. Maybe for DDD volume 2

I'm not buying the idea. Yen Sid is who they go to about their Keyblades after they break.

Perhaps once upon a time there were "chasers" who forged the Keyblade, but the theory of that idea was abandoned with the secret ending that introduced the idea of a "chaser" in the first place.

Even with the explanation you are suggesting, that doesn't really actually explain anything.

Lea's was bestowed/earned but it broke and magically was okay. Riku's was earned but then it was broken and implied that it would need to be fixed, and yet in Repliku's hands (making it an obtained Keyblade in his case), it was fixed.

So, again, no consistent concept of how Keyblades work. Sometimes they break and are broken for good and sometimes they break and they are okay.



Yeah, Braveheart makes no sense.

It looks like a car key, but it is more closely related to high security keys.

Interesting. Back when Braveheart was revealed I remember people speculating that it could be tied to the Black Box. It being inspired by a security key may give that theory some credit.
 

DarkosOverlord

Bronze Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
2,808
Awards
4
Age
24
Location
Rome, Italy
  • Keyblade Master
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • The Foreteller
  • Savage Nymph
Just to be clear, I wasn't making fun of people getting mad at trailer baits.
The KH III trailer baiting is one of the biggest issues I had with the whole thing.
Even worse is that I kept defending each trailer everytime it came out, convinced it wasn't going to be that bad. I owe many people an apology.


So much this. I got so frustrated over Lea's keyblade - first he gets one without proper reason (he could've fought with his Chakrams as well - no one ever said you can only be a wielder when you have a keyblade, otherwise the princesses wouldn't have qualified - and then it breaks because it's fake (what?) and suddenly, it's fine again.
I almost lost it when I saw that he STILL morphs the Keyblade into chakrams for combat.
Seriously, what was the point.

Most of it feels pointless because it has no effect on the story and sometimes directly contradicts things that just happened.
The issue with most of KH III's "main events" in a nutshell. Either you have no idea what's going on or HOW it's going on, and ultimately it doesn't even seem like it needed to happen/happen that way.
There are also moments and concepts I like, and I WANT to love them... but I'm so lost regardless.

Like, the huge tornado and the Ux thing is cool, but I also can't help but feel like the Heartless have lost their edge and now it's all reduced to "Let's see how many Shadows can this next bad boy fit in."
(I sincerely hope they'll ditch that whole concept tbh.)

And after 15 years, we hardly know anything about keyblades. We know they can be passed down in a ceremony - which is more like a letter of recommendation than an actual thing - and they are divided in the categories light, dark and heart. We see one keyblade of heart in the series (first game) which is able to do the same thing (removing hearts) as Xehanort later does with his normal keyblade (was it ever said which category that one belonged to?). Mickey's Kingdom Key D is a keyblade of darkness, but we see no significant difference to a normal one except for the power to enter the RoD at will which has its convenient first mention in the last game of the series. So what is the point of having three keyblade types if they don't really show differences? Why can keyblades break? How can they be fixed and even upgraded? Why does no one ever really consider that in the first place? And god damn, why is Riku's new keyblade so dumb.
It's so inconsistent I feel like we'll never even see a "Keyblade 101" kind of article because at this point attempting to make one would only lead to making it blatant that too many elements don't work with one another.

I mean: this is the same series that built up No Heart for years, constantly repeating that "You don't KNOW that it's Xehanort, it might be anyone", and then...

"Yo, Xehanort has two set of armors, just cause."
It might sound silly and inconsequential, but THAT was the last straw for my excitement in speculating.

It was confirmed that Axel's keyblade was fake? The one he uses when it is "fixed" is the "real" one? I am so confused.
To my understanding it's more like Xemnas called it as such.
But I don't know, he might've been saying things to rile Lea up, some sort of cruel joke like when they say Xion is 100% fake and has no rights or something.

Let's be honest, Lea basically got Data-Sora's arc in Coded, only in an even shorter and abridged format.
 

FudgemintGuardian

"Indeeeeeeeeeeeeed."
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
5,654
Awards
32
  • The Foreteller
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • Savage Nymph
  • Come So Far
  • Beauty Within
  • O, Purest of Hearts
To my understanding it's more like Xemnas called it as such.
But I don't know, he might've been saying things to rile Lea up, some sort of cruel joke like when they say Xion is 100% fake and has no rights or something.

Let's be honest, Lea basically got Data-Sora's arc in Coded, only in an even shorter and abridged format.
Correct and I agree. However, I lean on Xemnas meaning it's fake as the previous cases of fake Keyblades (Xion and Data-Sora's) show not just that they're weaker than the real thing, which would explain why Lea's attack did nothing on a powerful character like Xemnas, but the scene of Maleficent using the shattering Data-Sora's Keyblade as confirmation it was fake shows that real Keyblades wouldn't do this.
 
Last edited:

Oracle Spockanort

the only villain on staff
Staff member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
32,275
Awards
54
Age
27
Location
California
Website
twitter.com
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • 15th Anniversary
  • Just Short of the Mark
  • Advanced Chain of Memories
  • Beauty Within
  • No Name
Correct and I agree. However, I lean on Xemnas meaning it's fake as the previous cases of fake Keyblades (Xion and Data-Sora's) show not just that they're weaker than the real thing, which would explain why Lea's attack did nothing on a powerful character like Xemnas, but the scene of Maleficent using the shattering Data-Sora's Keyblade as proof it was fake shows that real Keyblades wouldn't do this.
In theory all of our explanations would make sense if not for the haphazard, inconsistent manner in which Keyblades behave in KH3.

Because ideally Lea’s keyblade would have shattered and stayed shattered. But it doesn’t, so we cycle back to square one on the whole real/fake conundrum.

A Keyblade in theory should be as real as the heart wielding it. If Lea’s was a fake, why? How? He has a real heart. In Data-Sora’s case, he was wielding a Keyblade made out of data so it wasn’t from his heart until he earns his own after the data one gets shattered. In Xion’s case, she was a replica made to mimic this ability so her Keyblade was as much of a sham as she was.

Lea is a real person who trained to get his Keyblade, so why is Xemnas implying it is fake? Under the vague knowledge we have about Keyblades, there is no way his can be fake.
 

Perkilator

Active member
Joined
Nov 8, 2017
Messages
748
Awards
0
Xemnas must've been really good at hiding the Chamber of Repose, because it's not even mentioned once by him in the game.
 

FudgemintGuardian

"Indeeeeeeeeeeeeed."
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
5,654
Awards
32
  • The Foreteller
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • Savage Nymph
  • Come So Far
  • Beauty Within
  • O, Purest of Hearts
In theory all of our explanations would make sense if not for the haphazard, inconsistent manner in which Keyblades behave in KH3.

Because ideally Lea’s keyblade would have shattered and stayed shattered. But it doesn’t, so we cycle back to square one on the whole real/fake conundrum.

A Keyblade in theory should be as real as the heart wielding it. If Lea’s was a fake, why? How? He has a real heart. In Data-Sora’s case, he was wielding a Keyblade made out of data so it wasn’t from his heart until he earns his own after the data one gets shattered. In Xion’s case, she was a replica made to mimic this ability so her Keyblade was as much of a sham as she was.

Lea is a real person who trained to get his Keyblade, so why is Xemnas implying it is fake? Under the vague knowledge we have about Keyblades, there is no way his can be fake.
It's such a pain to try and reason it when Nomura has donked things up so badly. And for what? Because it looked cool? Outside of context maybe. But if something only works outside of context, does it really work at all?

But for funsies, maybe it's not so much a fake but Lea really just doesn't have the knack for this whole Keyblade thing. So while it can function like one, it's weak and breaks easily.


Xemnas must've been really good at hiding the Chamber of Repose, because it's not even mentioned once by him in the game.
I'M STILL MAD ABOUT THAT!
 

Twilight Lumiair

Active member
Joined
May 1, 2017
Messages
233
Awards
0
Age
18
Location
Virginia
In theory all of our explanations would make sense if not for the haphazard, inconsistent manner in which Keyblades behave in KH3.

Because ideally Lea’s keyblade would have shattered and stayed shattered. But it doesn’t, so we cycle back to square one on the whole real/fake conundrum.

A Keyblade in theory should be as real as the heart wielding it. If Lea’s was a fake, why? How? He has a real heart. In Data-Sora’s case, he was wielding a Keyblade made out of data so it wasn’t from his heart until he earns his own after the data one gets shattered. In Xion’s case, she was a replica made to mimic this ability so her Keyblade was as much of a sham as she was.

Lea is a real person who trained to get his Keyblade, so why is Xemnas implying it is fake? Under the vague knowledge we have about Keyblades, there is no way his can be fake.
I think the answer to this conundrum was actually hinted by Xemnas himself. It's not about whether it's real or fake, it's just a joke! Because that's all consistency ever is with Nomura right? A freaking joke...

Bitter sarcasm aside though, are we assuming that Xion was still weilding a fake Keyblade in KH3? Or is it like Data-Sora in that she earned her own through merit and strength of heart (specifically, her sacrifice, and her connection with her friends)? Because her profile in Kh3 simply addresses her as a "keyblade wielder." I'm not sure if they were trying to say she legit gained the innate ability to weild a keyblade (and thus be classified as a true KB weilder) through draining Sora's memories, or if she's just weilding something very similar to a KB with the same properties (so, a "Sudo Keyblade weilder"). That's something I'd very much like to know.
 

Perkilator

Active member
Joined
Nov 8, 2017
Messages
748
Awards
0
It's such a pain to try and reason it when Nomura has donked things up so badly. And for what? Because it looked cool? Outside of context maybe. But if something only works outside of context, does it really work at all?

But for funsies, maybe it's not so much a fake but Lea really just doesn't have the knack for this whole Keyblade thing. So while it can function like one, it's weak and breaks easily.


I'M STILL MAD ABOUT THAT!
Might as well call it Chamber of Secrets. Take that, J.K. Rowling.
 

Face My Fears

She's not an "it"!
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
3,250
Awards
0
Xemnas must've been really good at hiding the Chamber of Repose, because it's not even mentioned once by him in the game.
I thought that room was just Xemnas' meditation/relaxation room that he hid Aqua's armor/keyblade so that people wouldn't figure out what happened to her?
 

Oracle Spockanort

the only villain on staff
Staff member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
32,275
Awards
54
Age
27
Location
California
Website
twitter.com
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • 15th Anniversary
  • Just Short of the Mark
  • Advanced Chain of Memories
  • Beauty Within
  • No Name
I thought that room was just Xemnas' meditation/relaxation room that he hid Aqua's armor/keyblade so that people wouldn't figure out what happened to her?
No, he was trying to use the chamber to reach Ven. And he would talk to the amor so it implied that something was going on in that room.

Then Nomura dropped the idea of it.
 

DarkosOverlord

Bronze Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
2,808
Awards
4
Age
24
Location
Rome, Italy
  • Keyblade Master
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • The Foreteller
  • Savage Nymph
Speaking of dropped ideas:

now that it's basically a given that hardly any past concept not related to Ux will get much relevance, can we talk about the walking contradiction that are the XIII Mushrooms.

Sure, there are some docile and friendly Heartless. I still wonder why Ansem/Maleficent/MCP would do that in the first place, but whatever.
The XIII Mushrooms wear black coats. Like, why. Why would they do that, the coats are merely a way to shield oneself from the corruption of Darkness, something a Heartless shouldn't fear but embrace.
Are the XIII Mushrooms a way Ansem SoD used to mock Xemnas and his goons?

And to add to the list of Keyblade inconsistencies is the fact that they give Sora a keyholder for the Keyblade. How? They're Heartless! How can you form a bond with their nonexistant hearts.

KH III fans will get a kick out of this one, even the almighty KH II FM wasn't exempt from cool ideas that make little sense lore-wise.
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2019
Messages
110
Awards
0
No, he was trying to use the chamber to reach Ven. And he would talk to the amor so it implied that something was going on in that room.

Then Nomura dropped the idea of it.
I know this is far fetched, but I've been very hopeful that Aqua would "follow" her heart to where her keyblade is. And Xemnas, who is now gone, can appear as a sort of hologram in the chamber of repose while functioning as a sort of secret report alternative where every now and then Ienzo and his crew can decode data or something there and you get to watch an extra scene.

I know it's very wishful thinking but on the one hand it's an excuse for Xemnas to make a cameo and on the other he can talk about some aspect of the age of fairy tales, or at least the characters from then that have joined the organization.

And if not it could be a one time scene that gives Aqua or the cast in general pointers on what needs to be done next.
 

Face My Fears

She's not an "it"!
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
3,250
Awards
0
No, he was trying to use the chamber to reach Ven. And he would talk to the amor so it implied that something was going on in that room.

Then Nomura dropped the idea of it.
Well maybe Xemnas gave up on that plan when he realized that they could just wait on Sora to have Aqua lead them to Ven?

It just seemed like a private room where he could conduct business without being disturbed by the other Organization members that he clearly suspected were betraying him. I mean, what if Marluxia became aware that Ven may be somewhere in Castle Oblivion? (Side note: Did Lauriam know Ven?)
 

Oracle Spockanort

the only villain on staff
Staff member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
32,275
Awards
54
Age
27
Location
California
Website
twitter.com
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • 15th Anniversary
  • Just Short of the Mark
  • Advanced Chain of Memories
  • Beauty Within
  • No Name
Well maybe Xemnas gave up on that plan when he realized that they could just wait on Sora to have Aqua lead them to Ven?

It just seemed like a private room where he could conduct business without being disturbed by the other Organization members that he clearly suspected were betraying him. I mean, what if Marluxia became aware that Ven may be somewhere in Castle Oblivion? (Side note: Did Lauriam know Ven?)
There was no business to conduct in the chamber besides using it to find Ven. He was looking for vessels. Waiting for Aqua wouldn’t have helped him fulfill his mission. Xehanort was always creating various methods for how he wanted to achieve his goals and the chamber was one of them. The other was physically searching Castle Oblivion for Ven.

Marluxia (and Larxene) apparently has no memories of his life from the age of fairytales. When Marluxia is defeated, he begins to remember.

Yes, Lauriam knows Ven. They are Union leaders together and spend quite a bit of time together in UX.
 

Face My Fears

She's not an "it"!
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
3,250
Awards
0
There was no business to conduct in the chamber besides using it to find Ven. He was looking for vessels. Waiting for Aqua wouldn’t have helped him fulfill his mission. Xehanort was always creating various methods for how he wanted to achieve his goals and the chamber was one of them. The other was physically searching Castle Oblivion for Ven.

Marluxia (and Larxene) apparently has no memories of his life from the age of fairytales. When Marluxia is defeated, he begins to remember.

Yes, Lauriam knows Ven. They are Union leaders together and spend quite a bit of time together in UX.
But wouldn't the search for vessels be pointless once the replica program became perfected? Maybe he was getting nowhere with the armor and just decided to not waste anymore time on it? I kind of thought that Aqua communicating with Terra/Ven in the Realm of Darkness was when Xemnas was talking to the armor.
 

Oracle Spockanort

the only villain on staff
Staff member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
32,275
Awards
54
Age
27
Location
California
Website
twitter.com
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • 15th Anniversary
  • Just Short of the Mark
  • Advanced Chain of Memories
  • Beauty Within
  • No Name
But wouldn't the search for vessels be pointless once the replica program became perfected? Maybe he was getting nowhere with the armor and just decided to not waste anymore time on it? I kind of thought that Aqua communicating with Terra/Ven in the Realm of Darkness was when Xemnas was talking to the armor.
The chamber came before the replica program. They had only just gained Marluxia and Larxene as members when Xemnas was using the chamber. Also, the replica program hadn’t been perfected at the time. Xion was experimental when she was created and Vexen was continuing his work at the castle.

It wasn’t even until KH3 that Xehanort decided to use the replicas as vessels for time traveling Darknesses.
 

Zettaflare

Ice Queen
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
10,217
Awards
2
Location
California
  • Anguis Union
  • Nothing's Like Before
When Xehanort was corrupting Kingdom Hearts after forging the X Blade there wasn't much of a "end of the world" vibe. It just occured to me that we don't get to experience it outside of the Keyblade Graveyard. Just imagine if we saw physical effects in all the worlds we visited in KH3 such as the sky darkening. And the reactions of the friends Sora made there.

That would have really sold that the apocalypse was coming after Xehanort seemingly won.
 
Top