History will repeat itself, 2nd Keyblade War [Theory]



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS

Muke

whatever
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
6,061
Location
Vienna
  • Savage Nymph
  • Key of Destiny
  • Graceful Assassin
  • Come So Far
  • The Gambler of Fate
  • Melodious Nocturne
(SPOILERS)
[I'm not good with theories and this will be all over the place, so please bear with me.]

--

As we learned in Union Cross, the Master of Masters has chosen five Dandelions who would become new the new Union Leaders. One of them will inherit the Book of Prophecies, which will "shape the next world after this world, in many ways".
This book will be complete and will include the Lost Page. We never really got to know what is written on that Lost Page - not fully. Only bits and pieces throughout X [chi] and Back Cover.

Now, let me pull some quotes from Xehanort's Report:

Xehanort Report III said:
At that time, the World was filled with light, and a great many Keyblade wielders. But without buffers, the worlds began to squabble over ownership of the light. You see, they learned of the Keyblade's true use. War broke out as each of the Keyblade wielders struggled to lay claim to an almighty entity known as Kingdom Hearts. Kingdom Hearts could be described as an aggregate of hearts.
Xehanort Report VII said:
I have uncovered the Keyblade's ultimate mystery. You see, besides the three families of Keyblades, there is another "Key Blade." While it may sound the same when spoken, it is notated uniquely: "χ-blade." And make no mistake, while it resembles a normal Keyblade, it is something altogether different.

Keyblades are said to be man-made counterparts to Kingdom Hearts. The χ-blade, however, coexists with Kingdom Hearts. It is only forged when two hearts of equal power intersect—one heart of pure darkness, one heart of pure light. At the time of its forging, Kingdom Hearts appears. It must be noted, though, that this Kingdom Hearts is special. Unlike the Kingdoms brought about forcibly and artificially through the collection of hearts, THIS Kingdom Hearts is a perfect and complete union of ALL the worlds' hearts.

Surely it was over this that the ancient Keyblade War was fought. If so, the walls that divide the worlds today are of little consequence. With the χ-blade, all their hearts could be instantly reunited—and the Keyblade War, refought.
And, of course, the most important Xehanort quote:
Master Xehanort said:
"In ancient times, people believed that light was a gift from an unseen land by the name of Kingdom Hearts. But Kingdom Hearts was safeguarded by its counterpart, the χ-blade. Warriors vied for that precious light, thus beginning the "Keyblade War." The violent clash shattered the χ-blade into twenty pieces—seven of light, and thirteen of darkness. And the only real Kingdom Hearts was swallowed by the darkness, never to surface again."
We experienced a Keyblade War, yes. But we didn't experience the Keyblade War... yet.
We only fought over Lux, we never fought over the X-Blade or Kingdom Hearts. That happened in X [chi].

In an extension of Case of Ava, in Union Cross, the Master of Masters also says that "it will be dangerous if anyone but the kid circled in red sees it", it being the book.

I asked myself the following questions today:
- Why did we never see the X-blade in chi? We did experience the Keyblade War, after all.
- Who IS the one who'll get the Book of Prophecies, why can only THEY see it?

And these are answers I came up with:

We never saw or heard of the X-blade in chi, because it'll be fought over in another, different war. In the second Keyblade War, to be exact, which we will experience in Union Cross. Now, why do I think so? Simple.
Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. ... Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of their predecessors are destined to repeat them.

History will kind of repeat itself, and there will, again, be a Keyblade War.
The new Union Leaders are tasked with letting all other Dandelions forget the Keyblade War, together with Chirithies of the Dandelions. We all think it's a dream. So I had another question… if that's the case, how come it's a legend today? How come Kairi's Grandmother and everyone else knows about the 'children who rebuilt the world'? How come nobody remembers THIS war, the one solely over Lux/light?

Because nobody can remember. Because there was ANOTHER Keyblade War after that one, which then truly was over the X-Blade and Kingdom Hearts.

So, what about question #2? I… don't have an answer about the first part. But I DO have an explanation for the second part. Because the Last Page also talks about the second Keyblade War. The master wouldn't want others to know because he doesn't want anyone to prevent this war -- for reasons I don't know. He'll have some, he's pretty ominous and obviously wants the world to fall to Darkness.

I'm not quite sure about the catalyst yet, though I did think about it and came up with the following:

It's got something to do with what's actually written on the Lost Page (or anywhere in the book, really). Maybe the person who inherited the BoP will read something about the X-blade's power and will want to summon Kingdom Hearts to gain said power, leading to the Keyblade War? I can imagine them pulling a few strings and plotting stuff against the other Leaders.

Xehanort does say that the person who will open the door to Kingdom Hearts will be reborn as something far greater than human. (Maybe this person would then become the true traitor of KH x?) This could simply be because of power-lust, desire to become something greater than everyone else, a desire to reset the world, or maybe they're just influenced by Darkness.

After the second war, the Dandelions will finally rebuild the worlds and all the worlds will be seperated, like we see them in BBS, KH1, and so on and so on.

----
By the way - another thing that could back this up this is that Yen Sid says the following in DDD:
DDD said:
The Keyblade Wars of yore plunged the true Kingdom Hearts into darkness, and the Chi-blade was shattered. But the light still shining in the hearts of children rebuilt the world that we know today. And the light from the broken Chi-blade was then divided into seven, to protect the number of pure hearts in the world.
Keyblade Wars… plural. Just saying.

So… please tell me your thoughts! Did you catch any inconsistencies? If so, do tell me.
Thanks for bearing with me and reading this mess.
 
Last edited:

gosoxtim

Silver Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
4,515
Age
29
Location
Illinois
  • News Hound
(SPOILERS)
[I'm not good with theories and this will be all over the place, so please bear with me.]

--

As we learned in Union Cross, the Master of Masters has chosen five Dandelions who would become new the new Union Leaders. One of them will inherit the Book of Prophecies, which will "shape the next world after this world, in many ways".
This book will be complete and will include the Lost Page. We never really got to know what is written on that Lost Page - not fully. Only bits and pieces throughout X [chi] and Back Cover.

Now, let me pull some quotes from Xehanort's Report:




And, of course, the most important Xehanort quote:


We experienced a Keyblade War, yes. But we didn't experience the Keyblade War... yet.
We only fought over Lux, we never fought over the X-Blade or Kingdom Hearts. That happened in X [chi].

In an extension of Case of Ava, in Union Cross, the Master of Masters also says that "it will be dangerous if anyone but the kid circled in red sees it", it being the book.

I asked myself the following questions today:
- Why did we never see the X-blade in chi? We did experience the Keyblade War, after all.
- Who IS the one who'll get the Book of Prophecies, why can only THEY see it?

And these are answers I came up with:

We never saw or heard of the X-blade in chi, because it'll be fought over in another, different war. In the second Keyblade War, to be exact, which we will experience in Union Cross. Now, why do I think so? Simple.
Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. ... Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of their predecessors are destined to repeat them.

History will kind of repeat itself, and there will, again, be a Keyblade War.
The new Union Leaders are tasked with letting all other Dandelions forget the Keyblade War, together with Chirithies of the Dandelions. We all think it's a dream. So I had another question… if that's the case, how come it's a legend today? How come Kairi's Grandmother and everyone else knows about the 'children who rebuilt the world'? How come nobody remembers THIS war, the one solely over Lux/light?

Because nobody can remember. Because there was ANOTHER Keyblade War after that one, which then truly was over the X-Blade and Kingdom Hearts.

So, what about question #2? I… don't have an answer about the first part. But I DO have an explanation for the second part. Because the Last Page also talks about the second Keyblade War. The master wouldn't want others to know because he doesn't want anyone to prevent this war -- for reasons I don't know. He'll have some, he's pretty ominous and obviously wants the world to fall to Darkness.

After the second war, the Dandelions will finally rebuild the worlds and all the worlds will be seperated, like we see them in BBS, KH1, and so on and so on.

So… please tell me your thoughts! Did you catch any inconsistencies? If so, do tell me.
Thanks for bearing with me and reading this mess.
i really this theroy alot muke plus i think the traitor revel him or herself that when the true war will begin and ihink the player will be on of the side whick i think he join streltizia,and ven side
 

Muke

whatever
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
6,061
Location
Vienna
  • Savage Nymph
  • Key of Destiny
  • Graceful Assassin
  • Come So Far
  • The Gambler of Fate
  • Melodious Nocturne
i really this theroy alot muke plus i think the traitor revel him or herself that when the true war will begin and ihink the player will be on of the side whick i think he join streltizia,and ven side
Thanks, Goso, I'm glad you like it! ^^ Yeah, that could indeed be a possibility
 

Not Ienzo

New member
Joined
Jul 29, 2017
Messages
219
Location
Nowhere
Website
www.fanfiction.net
This is a pretty good theory! At least I think it is. I haven't really been keeping up with the lore of this sub-series so I can't really find any inconsistencies, so I apologize for that. It begs the question how the X-Blade would actually be forged in the first place. I would say that it has something to do with Ventus but in UX I assume he would be whole and not split into two like in BBS (with Ventus being the pure light and Vanitas being the pure darkness) if this takes place in the past. It's hard to tell when it'll actually happen since having the worlds be rebuilt and separated would likely mean the end of the whole X saga (and I can't really imagine it ending any other way but who knows). And as for what the MoM wants...idk, at this point it's anyone's guess, he's far too mysterious to tell but he's definitely not very trustworthy.

Or maybe literally everything that has happened so far has all just been one big dream the whole time! (jk).
 

Muke

whatever
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
6,061
Location
Vienna
  • Savage Nymph
  • Key of Destiny
  • Graceful Assassin
  • Come So Far
  • The Gambler of Fate
  • Melodious Nocturne
This is a pretty good theory! At least I think it is. I haven't really been keeping up with the lore of this sub-series so I can't really find any inconsistencies, so I apologize for that. It begs the question how the X-Blade would actually be forged in the first place. I would say that it has something to do with Ventus but in UX I assume he would be whole and not split into two like in BBS (with Ventus being the pure light and Vanitas being the pure darkness) if this takes place in the past. It's hard to tell when it'll actually happen since having the worlds be rebuilt and separated would likely mean the end of the whole X saga (and I can't really imagine it ending any other way but who knows). And as for what the MoM wants...idk, at this point it's anyone's guess, he's far too mysterious to tell but he's definitely not very trustworthy.

Or maybe literally everything that has happened so far has all just been one big dream the whole time! (jk).
Thank you, makes me happy that some think this theory is good! :)

Yeah, the MoM for sure isn't trustworthy with all the strings he is pulling and all the mystery that's surrounding him.
 

Alpha Baymax

Silver Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2015
Messages
4,019
Age
23
Location
United Kingdom
  • East Meets West
  • Disney Royalty
I feel that this theory will end up being true. There's not really any conflict occurring in the Union X narrative right now, and we already see a clash of values with Ephemer and Skuld (in which they don't want the Dandelions to remember the tragedy) and Ventus and Blaine (who believe that it's ethically immoral to not talk about the tragedy of the first Keyblade War).

Though I ask you Muke, what's going to be the catalyst for this war? for the previous war, it was the ambiguity of the "traitor" and "the worlds falling into darkness that inevitably caused the first war. The new Union leaders were never told about any traitor in their group.
 

Muke

whatever
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
6,061
Location
Vienna
  • Savage Nymph
  • Key of Destiny
  • Graceful Assassin
  • Come So Far
  • The Gambler of Fate
  • Melodious Nocturne
I feel that this theory will end up being true. There's not really any conflict occurring in the Union X narrative right now, and we already see a clash of values with Ephemer and Skuld (in which they don't want the Dandelions to remember the tragedy) and Ventus and Blaine (who believe that it's ethically immoral to not talk about the tragedy of the first Keyblade War).

Though I ask you Muke, what's going to be the catalyst for this war? for the previous war, it was the ambiguity of the "traitor" and "the worlds falling into darkness that inevitably caused the first war. The new Union leaders were never told about any traitor in their group.
I'm not quite sure about that yet, though I did think about it and came up with the following:

It's got something to do with what's actually written on the Lost Page (or anywhere in the book, really). Maybe the person who inherited the BoP will read something about the X-blade's power and will want to summon Kingdom Hearts to gain said power, leading to the Keyblade War? I can imagine them pulling a few strings and plotting stuff against the other Leaders.

Xehanort does say that the person who will open the door to Kingdom Hearts will be reborn as something far greater than human. (Maybe this person would then become the true traitor of KH x?) This could simply be because of power-lust, desire to become something greater than everyone else, a desire to reset the world, or maybe they're just influenced by Darkness.

Thank you for reading through my theory, Alpha, and thanks for asking the question! I'm editing it into my post now. :)
 

Alpha Baymax

Silver Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2015
Messages
4,019
Age
23
Location
United Kingdom
  • East Meets West
  • Disney Royalty
I'm not quite sure about that yet, though I did think about it and came up with the following:

It's got something to do with what's actually written on the Lost Page (or anywhere in the book, really). Maybe the person who inherited the BoP will read something about the X-blade's power and will want to summon Kingdom Hearts to gain said power, leading to the Keyblade War? I can imagine them pulling a few strings and plotting stuff against the other Leaders.

Xehanort does say that the person who will open the door to Kingdom Hearts will be reborn as something far greater than human. (Maybe this person would then become the true traitor of KH x?) This could simply be because of power-lust, desire to become something greater than everyone else, a desire to reset the world, or maybe they're just influenced by Darkness.

Thank you for reading through my theory, Alpha, and thanks for asking the question! I'm editing it into my post now. :)
So you believe that either Ephemer, Skuld, Ventus, Blaine or Striletzia (the only person allowed to read the Book of Prophecies) is going to be intrigued by the X-Blade and use that as the means to summon Kingdom Hearts? and then try to create some sort of intentional division in order to start another Keyblade War? interesting proposition. Who out of the five do you think is most likely going to be the Union leader that starts the second Keyblade War?
 

Muke

whatever
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
6,061
Location
Vienna
  • Savage Nymph
  • Key of Destiny
  • Graceful Assassin
  • Come So Far
  • The Gambler of Fate
  • Melodious Nocturne
So you believe that either Ephemer, Skuld, Ventus, Blaine or Striletzia (the only person allowed to read the Book of Prophecies) is going to be intrigued by the X-Blade and use that as the means to summon Kingdom Hearts? and then try to create some sort of intentional division in order to start another Keyblade War? interesting proposition. Who out of the five do you think is most likely going to be the Union leader that starts the second Keyblade War?
I feel like anything is possible at this point - we all know that Nomura really loves his plot twists, and I wouldn't put it past him to make a character really cute and nice at first, but make them turn evil and into a villain at the end.

I think we don't know enough about them yet to make any claims. I definitely am ruling out Ventus, he seems too unlikely, plus, he still lives, so...

Other than that, I think it's odd that Strelitzia got her own introduction while Ven and Blaine did not, so that's something that needs to be pointed out. She also is the only person of the leaders that has the recuscant's sigil on her, and the book does state that 'the one who bears the sigil' will betray everyone else.

Ephemer is definitely a curious dude, he always wants to know more about the book and the future, so I think if he read a passage about Kingdom Hearts and the X-Blade, he would want to see it, out of curiosity? I'm definitely keeping an eye on him.

Blaine is anyone's call at this point - we know nearly nothing about him. I don't know what to make of him, but, again, I'm keeping an eye on him.

Skuld seems a little too nice if I'm honest, but I'm not ruling her out. She might want to summon Kingdom Hearts in order to reset the world, to make everyone, including herself, forget all of the events. I'd also like to point out that Player calls her 'a goddess', which is definitely something above human - that could be a subtle clue.

I definitely think Strelitzia is the most suspicious one.
 

Grono

KH ☼ D&D ☼ Music ☼ Wack.
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
2,188
Location
Somewhere, surely procrastinating
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5+2.5 ReMIX
  • Dandelion
  • Dandelion
  • Final Fantasy XV
  • Final Fantasy XV
  • The Foreteller
Probably the best theory on this topic at the moment 😊I love everything about this, and I like how the theory explains why nothing that happened in the supposed keyblade war happened in the game so far. I always imagined that these new Union leaders would inevitably destroy each other, and that the book would be lost in that second battle, due to Ephemer's unease and Blaine's abrasive attitude.
 

Muke

whatever
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
6,061
Location
Vienna
  • Savage Nymph
  • Key of Destiny
  • Graceful Assassin
  • Come So Far
  • The Gambler of Fate
  • Melodious Nocturne
Probably the best theory on this topic at the moment ������I love everything about this, and I like how the theory explains why nothing that happened in the supposed keyblade war happened in the game so far. I always imagined that these new Union leaders would inevitably destroy each other, and that the book would be lost in that second battle, due to Ephemer's unease and Blaine's abrasive attitude.
Thank you so much Grono! :)
 

Luxu

New member
Joined
Jul 7, 2016
Messages
735
Location
Somewhere, like behind your chair
  • Keyblade Master
  • Fairest of them All
  • Quack Attack
I believe this, it will be a great way to finish Union Cross or for a Climax. Perhaps, the Player remembers the events that happened. Notices that everyone is going down that same route, and they try to prevent it. However they fail, and fight once more in Keyblade War. The Player survives once again, noting that its not as major as the last one. And the Union Leaders are also alive, with Blaine either dead or dying.

I am going to add to your theory real quick...Alright?

So, the first Keyblade War DID end the world. However, the world was restored from its near brink (The Player even says its the end of the world). Then, this second battle between the Dandelions where it is a free for all. And not armies fighting each other. Causes the X-Blade to appear, then break. Causing the true end of the world.

Or maybe, in a twist of events. Ephemera is the unknowing traitor. And, gets corrupted by the X-Blade. And the final boss fight is between the Player and Ephemera. As the other Union Leaders are too busy fighting among themselves. It would also be a great way to get people sad.
 
Last edited:

Alpha Baymax

Silver Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2015
Messages
4,019
Age
23
Location
United Kingdom
  • East Meets West
  • Disney Royalty
I feel like anything is possible at this point - we all know that Nomura really loves his plot twists, and I wouldn't put it past him to make a character really cute and nice at first, but make them turn evil and into a villain at the end.

I think we don't know enough about them yet to make any claims. I definitely am ruling out Ventus, he seems too unlikely, plus, he still lives, so... I definitely think Strelitzia is the most suspicious one.
I think the opposite, and here's why. The Ventus that's currently the Union leader is equal parts light and darkness. Not only that, we see that the Dandelion Union leaders are the spitting image of the original Union leaders. Ephemer was collectively decided to be the leader like Ira, Skuld is always on Ephemer's side just like how Invi is always on Ira's side, Blaine seems to clash values against Ephemer despite supporting his decisions like how Aced is supposed watch over Ira, but goes against him. Striletzia has a focus on the player character just like Ava, so that leaves Ventus being compared to Gula. Now here's the kicker, what did Gula want to do? summon Kingdom Hearts.

Ventus starting The Keyblade War delves even further when you think about Birth by Sleep. Why did Xehanort take Ventus as his pupil outside of being a vessel? why did Eraqus want to destroy Ventus when he realised why he never left The Land of Departure? why did Xehanort point to Ventus and exclaim "X-Blade"? Why was Vanitas so invested in the lore of the Keyblade War? and why did Ventus tell Terra and Aqua to "Put an end to him" when they rendevouz in The Keyblade Graveyard? All these scenarios make sense when you consider the possibility that Ventus is the person that started The Keyblade War that summoned Kingdom Hearts. Plus, it would strengthen the symbolism with why Ventus station of awakening is The Keyblade Graveyard.
 

Muke

whatever
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
6,061
Location
Vienna
  • Savage Nymph
  • Key of Destiny
  • Graceful Assassin
  • Come So Far
  • The Gambler of Fate
  • Melodious Nocturne
I think the opposite, and here's why. The Ventus that's currently the Union leader is equal parts light and darkness. Not only that, we see that the Dandelion Union leaders are the spitting image of the original Union leaders. Ephemer was collectively decided to be the leader like Ira, Skuld is always on Ephemer's side just like how Invi is always on Ira's side, Blaine seems to clash values against Ephemer despite supporting his decisions like how Aced is supposed watch over Ira, but goes against him. Striletzia has a focus on the player character just like Ava, so that leaves Ventus being compared to Gula. Now here's the kicker, what did Gula want to do? summon Kingdom Hearts.

Ventus starting The Keyblade War delves even further when you think about Birth by Sleep. Why did Xehanort take Ventus as his pupil outside of being a vessel? why did Eraqus want to destroy Ventus when he realised why he never left The Land of Departure? why did Xehanort point to Ventus and exclaim "X-Blade"? Why was Vanitas so invested in the lore of the Keyblade War? and why did Ventus tell Terra and Aqua to "Put an end to him" when they rendevouz in The Keyblade Graveyard? All these scenarios make sense when you consider the possibility that Ventus is the person that started The Keyblade War that summoned Kingdom Hearts. Plus, it would strengthen the symbolism with why Ventus station of awakening is The Keyblade Graveyard.
Oh, I actually like your idea. After having read this, I'm considering him as well.
 

Luxu

New member
Joined
Jul 7, 2016
Messages
735
Location
Somewhere, like behind your chair
  • Keyblade Master
  • Fairest of them All
  • Quack Attack
I think the opposite, and here's why. The Ventus that's currently the Union leader is equal parts light and darkness. Not only that, we see that the Dandelion Union leaders are the spitting image of the original Union leaders. Ephemer was collectively decided to be the leader like Ira, Skuld is always on Ephemer's side just like how Invi is always on Ira's side, Blaine seems to clash values against Ephemer despite supporting his decisions like how Aced is supposed watch over Ira, but goes against him. Striletzia has a focus on the player character just like Ava, so that leaves Ventus being compared to Gula. Now here's the kicker, what did Gula want to do? summon Kingdom Hearts.
Nice parallels between the Union Leaders and Foretellers. It seems like the Master of Masters either knowingly or unknowingly picked people that would mimic that of his Foretellers. Now, I am betting that Ephemera or Striletzia have been bestowed the Book of Prophecies. One of those two. Question is, who is going to bestow the Book of Prophecies...Ava is gone? However, that mysterious Black Coat exists...

Ventus starting The Keyblade War delves even further when you think about Birth by Sleep. Why did Xehanort take Ventus as his pupil outside of being a vessel? why did Eraqus want to destroy Ventus when he realised why he never left The Land of Departure? why did Xehanort point to Ventus and exclaim "X-Blade"? Why was Vanitas so invested in the lore of the Keyblade War? and why did Ventus tell Terra and Aqua to "Put an end to him" when they rendevouz in The Keyblade Graveyard? All these scenarios make sense when you consider the possibility that Ventus is the person that started The Keyblade War that summoned Kingdom Hearts. Plus, it would strengthen the symbolism with why Ventus station of awakening is The Keyblade Graveyard.
This would also give Sora more importance. As it relates him to the biggest event to have ever occurred in Kingdom Hearts Lore. I wonder why Ventus would try to summon Kingdom Hearts. Perhaps, by accident. Or, because of his age he wants something from it. Probably happiness for his friends seeing as he can most likely sense Ephemera's concern for the Dandelions. Early on, people thought that Ventus was from Daybreak Town and that it was the Keyblade Graveyard, then if he was the Player who had survived, but now. This makes more sense, him being the cause of it.
 

Muke

whatever
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
6,061
Location
Vienna
  • Savage Nymph
  • Key of Destiny
  • Graceful Assassin
  • Come So Far
  • The Gambler of Fate
  • Melodious Nocturne
Famitsu Interview said:
— So, I’d like to ask you a little more about what’s coming for Kingdom Hearts Union Cross. The identity of the 4th Union Leader has been revealed but...

Nomura:
I’ve already finished writing the scenario involving the 5th Union Leader and it will be releasing in the first few weeks of August. Actually, I have an illustration of them right here... (Nomura shows the interviewer the illustration)
— Cute!!

Nomura:
They’re a good kid. And... hot off the press, here’s a rough sketch of the main illustration for the scenario. (Nomura shows the sketch to the interviewer)— Huh, the 5th leader isn’t in this sketch?

Among the other revealed 4 Union Leaders are... an unknown character and someone in a black hood. Is the one in the black hood the 5th Union Leader?


Nomura:
Nope. And with that, please pay close attention to what will unfold in the next scenario (laughs).
This was pointed out by Sephiroth0812 in another thread.

So… Nomura's sketch for the 'main illustration for the scenario', in which Strelitzia is missing, which I found really odd. There also seems to be an unknown character, and another one who's in a coat, just like the MoM and Luxu.
With that… we have seven people again.

I just wanted to point this out real quick, since I feel like this just makes Strelitzia all the more suspicious, and both the unknown character and the hooded one could be the catalyst for the war. But I'll wait for more infos regarding them before I add anything to the theory.
 

Spectre_Dia

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2016
Messages
42
I believe I saw a similar theory about a second keyblade war on this forum as for why it is referred to as a single keyblade was probably because both wars happened so closely together that it was remembered as just a single war.
 

DarkGrey Heroine

Warrior of Sunlight
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
1,342
Age
22
Location
not on KHI
Website
www.deviantart.com
  • NieR: Automata
  • No Name
  • Ninja'd
  • Master Defender
  • Come So Far
  • Superior of the In-Between
You wrote it all out very well, Muke. I thought the same thing about there being two Keyblade Wars, I definitely agree on this point. We got the first war over Lux, which leaves us to speculate the reason for the other. Why wouldn't it be, possibly, just the sinple chaos of all the Dandelions rebelling against their Leaders after realizing the truth, the Dream World they are trapped in, that only loops skipping the tragedy part every time? If all the Dandelions rebel against the Leaders, nothing would go according to the Master's plan, so the Leaders would have to search for ways strong enouhh to undo everything, erase everything again, like it once happened. Only this time, the "reset" will fail.
Now, I mentioned "according to the Master's plan", but the Leaders themselves do believe it's all Lady Ava's plan, as she was the one -visibly- putting the pieces together, but never told to whose plan those pieces belonged to in fact. Nobody from the survivors, as far as I understood, knows about the Master of Masters. And nobody shall ever know, as Ava herself said there are some secrets nobody should know, these secrets all connecting to the Master... and Luxu, who apparently told Ava stuff.
Then, I mentioned "ways strong enough" and here comes a place where Kingdom Hearts and the legendary X-Blade could easily fit in the context. Who knows.

Another thing - I would disagree that the new Leaders are spitting images of the old Foretellers. Ephemer does resemble Ira somehow, true, but Skuld never manifests the behaviour of a "watcher" in any scene, thus I personally would have no reason to quickly associate her with Invi just because she is somewhat close to Ephemer and is a female character. Blaine does not "clash values with Ephemer", he rather clearly shows suspition towards the laws themselves, and later in the scene with him questioning the laws Ephemer hesitantly agrees to go by the laws, and Blaine rolls with it, and that's it. I wouldn't say Blaine in any way opposed Ephemer in that scene, at least not in a strictly personal manner. Blaine shows the attitude of someone whose mind is intelligent enough to be quick to see through things, thus making his first reaction to something like the laws be a reaction of philosophical doubt and even distrust. These characteristics are those of Gula without question, while Ventus as we get to see him doesn't share anything but a bit of the colour scheme with Gula, not a sufficient reason for the association of course, no matter how much even I liked the Rebirth theory that connected Leopardus to Ventus. The Rebirth theory is something I would rely on less and less now, sadly, as we get more story added.

About Strelitzia - I don't like her a single bit. She may be cute and all but, just like you Muke, I am suspicious. What if she was the only Leader that knew the Player and other Dandelions are starting to doubt and cause disorder, after all she watched the Player AND noticed their suspicious behaviour, but never did a single thing to prevent a rebellion from happening, for whatever shyness or kindness was stopping her from doing so, with terrible consequences she never thought of? What if she could have been the one that knew the chaos began to bloom in the Dream World, but kept it all hidden from the other Leaders and never took action? And to think that she thought she was doing the right thing, protecting the Player from the other Leaders' interference, pff... how 'cute'. Could be.
 

Muke

whatever
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
6,061
Location
Vienna
  • Savage Nymph
  • Key of Destiny
  • Graceful Assassin
  • Come So Far
  • The Gambler of Fate
  • Melodious Nocturne
You wrote it all out very well, Muke. I thought the same thing about there being two Keyblade Wars, I definitely agree on this point. We got the first war over Lux, which leaves us to speculate the reason for the other. Why wouldn't it be, possibly, just the sinple chaos of all the Dandelions rebelling against their Leaders after realizing the truth, the Dream World they are trapped in, that only loops skipping the tragedy part every time? If all the Dandelions rebel against the Leaders, nothing would go according to the Master's plan, so the Leaders would have to search for ways strong enouhh to undo everything, erase everything again, like it once happened. Only this time, the "reset" will fail.
Now, I mentioned "according to the Master's plan", but the Leaders themselves do believe it's all Lady Ava's plan, as she was the one -visibly- putting the pieces together, but never told to whose plan those pieces belonged to in fact. Nobody from the survivors, as far as I understood, knows about the Master of Masters. And nobody shall ever know, as Ava herself said there are some secrets nobody should know, these secrets all connecting to the Master... and Luxu, who apparently told Ava stuff.
Then, I mentioned "ways strong enough" and here comes a place where Kingdom Hearts and the legendary X-Blade could easily fit in the context. Who knows.

Another thing - I would disagree that the new Leaders are spitting images of the old Foretellers. Ephemer does resemble Ira somehow, true, but Skuld never manifests the behaviour of a "watcher" in any scene, thus I personally would have no reason to quickly associate her with Invi just because she is somewhat close to Ephemer and is a female character. Blaine does not "clash values with Ephemer", he rather clearly shows suspition towards the laws themselves, and later in the scene with him questioning the laws Ephemer hesitantly agrees to go by the laws, and Blaine rolls with it, and that's it. I wouldn't say Blaine in any way opposed Ephemer in that scene, at least not in a strictly personal manner. Blaine shows the attitude of someone whose mind is intelligent enough to be quick to see through things, thus making his first reaction to something like the laws be a reaction of philosophical doubt and even distrust. These characteristics are those of Gula without question, while Ventus as we get to see him doesn't share anything but a bit of the colour scheme with Gula, not a sufficient reason for the association of course, no matter how much even I liked the Rebirth theory that connected Leopardus to Ventus. The Rebirth theory is something I would rely on less and less now, sadly, as we get more story added.

About Strelitzia - I don't like her a single bit. She may be cute and all but, just like you Muke, I am suspicious. What if she was the only Leader that knew the Player and other Dandelions are starting to doubt and cause disorder, after all she watched the Player AND noticed their suspicious behaviour, but never did a single thing to prevent a rebellion from happening, for whatever shyness or kindness was stopping her from doing so, with terrible consequences she never thought of? What if she could have been the one that knew the chaos began to bloom in the Dream World, but kept it all hidden from the other Leaders and never took action? And to think that she thought she was doing the right thing, protecting the Player from the other Leaders' interference, pff... how 'cute'. Could be.
Thaaanks!


Now that you said it, yes, I totally agree with your idea of the Union Leaders and their Unions/similarities with the other Foretellers. And yeah, your idea about Strelitzia is an interesting one as well. Definitely will keep that in mind.
 

Alja

New member
Joined
Aug 14, 2017
Messages
281
Age
28
Location
Germany
So, what about question #2? I… don't have an answer about the first part. But I DO have an explanation for the second part. Because the Last Page also talks about the second Keyblade War. The master wouldn't want others to know because he doesn't want anyone to prevent this war -- for reasons I don't know. He'll have some, he's pretty ominous and obviously wants the world to fall to Darkness.
I can think of two reasons (they're both just my ideas though):
1) He's the same type of guy as Xehanort. Curious scientist, obsessed with a certain idea and to achieve that goal, he'd even go as far as to cause a war to see what'll happen.
2) Self fulfilling prophecy. The MoM knows what is going to happen and he takes the necessary steps to ensure it will happen. He won't take the chance to accidentally change the future so he abides to it. I like this idea a little bit more since he's very serious when he's talking to Ava about the Dandelions, if he was in it for fun like Xehanort, he would behave in front of her like he does in front of the others.

But do you mean with that that after the first war, the world did not fall to darkness and it was indeed only the second Keyblade war that caused Darkness to spread over the world until it was rebuilt by the Lights?

It's got something to do with what's actually written on the Lost Page (or anywhere in the book, really). Maybe the person who inherited the BoP will read something about the X-blade's power and will want to summon Kingdom Hearts to gain said power, leading to the Keyblade War? I can imagine them pulling a few strings and plotting stuff against the other Leaders.
But Gula told us the contents of the lost page? I mean, to be fair, nobody has a clue as of now what it supposedly means, but those are apparently the only contents. And now I'm a little unsure - the book ends with the last passage:

"The fated land will be the battleground for a great war. Light will see defeat and expire, while darkness prevails evermore."

But if we assume that this last passage is talking about the second Keyblade war... wouldn't the other Foretellers already have caught onto that? Or does the book get magically written as time progresses and Ira was only able to read exactly what was in his own near future? I've been thinking about the Book today for a longer time and I am legitimately confused now x.x

Ephemer is definitely a curious dude, he always wants to know more about the book and the future, so I think if he read a passage about Kingdom Hearts and the X-Blade, he would want to see it, out of curiosity? I'm definitely keeping an eye on him.
Just a small addition here - you're right, Ephemer is the curious one, but I find it very interesting that he seems to shed this once he's a Union Leader. He decides to keep the truth from the others (something the former curious Ephemer surely wouldn't have done) and to adhere to the rules. If anything, he would need an actual reason to summon the X-Blade, sheer curiosity doesn't cut it for him anymore.


All in all it's a very interesting theory though! I've seen the idea of two Keyblade wars a few times now and it does make sense, even though I think "Why Nomura, why? Why make it even more complicated?" Like I'm honestly not sure whether he actually planned this for a longer time or SE just wanted to have more story so they can whip out Unchained X and have an actual reason for people to play it.

Another thing - I would disagree that the new Leaders are spitting images of the old Foretellers. [...]
Up until now, it's kind of hard to tell, yes. I do believe however that given the time, we might see the Union Leaders all take after one of the original Foretellers - or the sins they're named after. We did see some hints to that already, but nothing too explicit, so that's just a rough idea I had (to compare the Union Leaders to the sins the Foretellers are named after), but I can really imagine it might happen later on. Let's hope we'll get a few story updates now.

Blaine shows the attitude of someone whose mind is intelligent enough to be quick to see through things, thus making his first reaction to something like the laws be a reaction of philosophical doubt and even distrust.
*COUGH*Braig*COUGH*. Well, not that I believe that Blaine and Braig are in any way related (I'm team "Blaine resembles Ienzo too much to be a mere coincidence"), but your description kinda screams Braig at me. His mannerisms are close to the MoM, too, and I got quite the MoM-vibes from Blaine back in the day, so it's going to be interesting to see more of him.
 
Top