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History will repeat itself, 2nd Keyblade War [Theory]



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Luxu

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You wrote it all out very well, Muke. I thought the same thing about there being two Keyblade Wars, I definitely agree on this point. We got the first war over Lux, which leaves us to speculate the reason for the other. Why wouldn't it be, possibly, just the sinple chaos of all the Dandelions rebelling against their Leaders after realizing the truth, the Dream World they are trapped in, that only loops skipping the tragedy part every time? If all the Dandelions rebel against the Leaders, nothing would go according to the Master's plan, so the Leaders would have to search for ways strong enouhh to undo everything, erase everything again, like it once happened. Only this time, the "reset" will fail.
Now, I mentioned "according to the Master's plan", but the Leaders themselves do believe it's all Lady Ava's plan, as she was the one -visibly- putting the pieces together, but never told to whose plan those pieces belonged to in fact. Nobody from the survivors, as far as I understood, knows about the Master of Masters. And nobody shall ever know, as Ava herself said there are some secrets nobody should know, these secrets all connecting to the Master... and Luxu, who apparently told Ava stuff.

All we know is that it was bad enough for Ava to fight Luxu. That cutscene is important in more ways than one, it seems Luxu wasn't willing to fight Ava. Meaning she started it, so how bad was this drop of info? Ephemera, who is a smart kid may I remind you. Would probably catch on, however how far is to far in this scenario? He simply followed Ava's advice for little more than the Player's PTSD. If the Dandelions rebelled against the Leaders, chances are NOT in the Union Leaders favor, even with something as powerful as the X-Blade. So, to equal the playing field. We can assume a few Dandelions are loyal to the Union Leaders still.

Then, I mentioned "ways strong enough" and here comes a place where Kingdom Hearts and the legendary X-Blade could easily fit in the context. Who knows.

Someone is going to have to break that thing then, or perhaps...Just maybe, you need a balanced heart and mind to be able to use the X-Blade? I imagine killing a whole bunch of "followers" would really take a toll on you, it obviously did for the Foretellers. For a few kids, it wouldn't be any different. The blade probably broke from that fact alone.

Another thing - I would disagree that the new Leaders are spitting images of the old Foretellers. Ephemer does resemble Ira somehow, true, but Skuld never manifests the behaviour of a "watcher" in any scene, thus I personally would have no reason to quickly associate her with Invi just because she is somewhat close to Ephemer and is a female character. Blaine does not "clash values with Ephemer", he rather clearly shows suspition towards the laws themselves, and later in the scene with him questioning the laws Ephemer hesitantly agrees to go by the laws, and Blaine rolls with it, and that's it. I wouldn't say Blaine in any way opposed Ephemer in that scene, at least not in a strictly personal manner. Blaine shows the attitude of someone whose mind is intelligent enough to be quick to see through things, thus making his first reaction to something like the laws be a reaction of philosophical doubt and even distrust. These characteristics are those of Gula without question, while Ventus as we get to see him doesn't share anything but a bit of the colour scheme with Gula, not a sufficient reason for the association of course, no matter how much even I liked the Rebirth theory that connected Leopardus to Ventus. The Rebirth theory is something I would rely on less and less now, sadly, as we get more story added.

What I realized from rewatching the cutscenes and this comment. Is that none of the Union Leaders (With the exception of Skuld, and we haven't seen Strelitza's reaction just yet.) want to follow the rules. Ventus only goes with the flow (Like Gula, he must have been in his Union or something) And, like you said Blaine was more skeptical. It seems that they will all break the rules at some point in time. I mean, no one can enforce them other than them...Right? They don't have Luxu or Ava watching over them. And they certainly don't have Dream Eater guardians that will enforce them. Its not if they break the rules, its a matter of when.

About Strelitzia - I don't like her a single bit. She may be cute and all but, just like you Muke, I am suspicious. What if she was the only Leader that knew the Player and other Dandelions are starting to doubt and cause disorder, after all she watched the Player AND noticed their suspicious behaviour, but never did a single thing to prevent a rebellion from happening, for whatever shyness or kindness was stopping her from doing so, with terrible consequences she never thought of? What if she could have been the one that knew the chaos began to bloom in the Dream World, but kept it all hidden from the other Leaders and never took action? And to think that she thought she was doing the right thing, protecting the Player from the other Leaders' interference, pff... how 'cute'. Could be.

The Player as we've seen, is the only one to doubt everything around them. They are also decently smart (Though, apparently not that aware) However, they have more in common with someone like Strelitzia or Ephemera than they do with the Dandelions or the little "friend" group they are in. However, I see Strelitzia as someone who is going to try her hardest to do things right. However, like the other Union Leaders. Will fail in the end, probably letting her eerily fondness of the Player get the best of her. But, you are also forgetting a few things. I don't think the Union Leaders are necessarily strong. As a result, I don't think Strelitzia would have the power to back things up UNLESS she had the Book of Prophecies with her. Or, had other Union Leaders with her. Because, slightly above average does not beat average if THAT much are around. However, perhaps she did tell them?
 

Muke

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I can think of two reasons (they're both just my ideas though):
1) He's the same type of guy as Xehanort. Curious scientist, obsessed with a certain idea and to achieve that goal, he'd even go as far as to cause a war to see what'll happen.
2) Self fulfilling prophecy. The MoM knows what is going to happen and he takes the necessary steps to ensure it will happen. He won't take the chance to accidentally change the future so he abides to it. I like this idea a little bit more since he's very serious when he's talking to Ava about the Dandelions, if he was in it for fun like Xehanort, he would behave in front of her like he does in front of the others.

But do you mean with that that after the first war, the world did not fall to darkness and it was indeed only the second Keyblade war that caused Darkness to spread over the world until it was rebuilt by the Lights?
Oh, I do love your ideas! Those could both be one of the new characters from Nomura's sketch I mentioned (either the new coat-guy, or the unknown character). I'll definitely keep those options in mind.

Yeah, that's kinda what I was trying to back the theory up with. It doesn't seem like the world ever fell into Darkness - rather, the only thing that changed seems to be that there is a Keyblade Graveyard now. I feel like it would have been mentioned if it did happen and the Dandelions did restore the world - right now, they're just in another 'realm'.


Alja said:
But Gula told us the contents of the lost page? I mean, to be fair, nobody has a clue as of now what it supposedly means, but those are apparently the only contents.
Huh? Did he really say that those are the only contents? At least in Backcover, there clearly is a lot more text... unless the devs were just lazy again?

And now I'm a little unsure - the book ends with the last passage:

"The fated land will be the battleground for a great war. Light will see defeat and expire, while darkness prevails evermore."

But if we assume that this last passage is talking about the second Keyblade war... wouldn't the other Foretellers already have caught onto that? Or does the book get magically written as time progresses and Ira was only able to read exactly what was in his own near future? I've been thinking about the Book today for a longer time and I am legitimately confused now x.x
Caught onto what exactly? They don't live any more, I don't think there's any possibility of them knowing that it isn't the case. :D
The book seems to be complete already, since the MoM says to Luxu: "that the book exists is prove of your success" or something like that. I do think it's complete already. But yes, x stuff is confusing, definitely. xDD

Just a small addition here - you're right, Ephemer is the curious one, but I find it very interesting that he seems to shed this once he's a Union Leader. He decides to keep the truth from the others (something the former curious Ephemer surely wouldn't have done) and to adhere to the rules. If anything, he would need an actual reason to summon the X-Blade, sheer curiosity doesn't cut it for him anymore.
Hmm, true, I never considered that. Then I think he'd go the same route as Skuld (if at all, of course): He might want to summon Kingdom Hearts in order to reset the world, to make everyone, including himself, forget all of the events.


All in all it's a very interesting theory though! I've seen the idea of two Keyblade wars a few times now and it does make sense, even though I think "Why Nomura, why? Why make it even more complicated?" Like I'm honestly not sure whether he actually planned this for a longer time or SE just wanted to have more story so they can whip out Unchained X and have an actual reason for people to play it.
Thaaanks, Alja! :) Yeah, Nomura sure loves to confuse us all. I think he did plan at least the book of prophecies and the general idea of [x] since DDD, considering we see the characters summon stuff out of the book many times, and the book in the Opening even opens in a artstyle comparable to the BoP's.
 

DarkGrey Heroine

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*COUGH*Braig*COUGH*. Well, not that I believe that Blaine and Braig are in any way related (I'm team "Blaine resembles Ienzo too much to be a mere coincidence"), but your description kinda screams Braig at me. His mannerisms are close to the MoM, too, and I got quite the MoM-vibes from Blaine back in the day, so it's going to be interesting to see more of him.

Well, while I do understand why you would think of Braig, as far as I read his character, Braig just isn't that intelligent, he is just an oportunist, in the right place at the right time, as long as it's in his immediate benefit. Plus I just dont get the feel that Braig and Xigbar could be THAT important in the overall plot, surely an important pawn but not THAT important... But whatever is possible... I rather see Blaine more similar to Gula and remember how Gula didn't fall in the battles of the war, he "flew away", teleported out of there or something, so he might be around in the future as he said to the player "well, maybe we'll meet again somewhere", an already curious enough statement. If Blaine has any connections to Gula, he could be a spy or something like that. If Blaine has a connection to MoM and Luxu, he could be another character who watches and keeps things unfolding as they should according to MoM's intentions. What we know for sure is Blaine can't be Luxu nor Gula themselves, obviously, since Ava would recognize their voices the moment she recruited Blaine and spoke with him, unless... magical disguises 'n stuff.
Then again....... he does look like Ienzo a bit too much but we can't see anything precise, take off your hat, boy, even overly-attached-to-his-hat Professor Layton took it off every now and then why can't you
 

Alja

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Oh, I do love your ideas! Those could both be one of the new characters from Nomura's sketch I mentioned (either the new coat-guy, or the unknown character).
Ah, i was talking about the MoM though x'D


Huh? Did he really say that those are the only contents? At least in Backcover, there clearly is a lot more text... unless the devs were just lazy again?
To be honest, I don't remember, but I was always under the impression that Gula quotes the entirety of it. But you're right, they could've added to it in Back Cover.

Caught onto what exactly? They don't live any more, I don't think there's any possibility of them knowing that it isn't the case. :D
The book seems to be complete already, since the MoM says to Luxu: "that the book exists is prove of your success" or something like that. I do think it's complete already. But yes, x stuff is confusing, definitely. xDD
The thing is: If the book is complete, it should hold all information about what happens after the Keyblade war since No Name is about to witness another Keyblade war in Sora's timeline and the MoM's eye saw it. So in fact, it isn't complete (not to mention that there's still no explanation how the MoM could write about the Keyblade War that No Name hasn't witnessed yet).
And for a second, because he said "complete", I assumed it does indeed hold all information and in that case, the other Foretellers would've found out about the Dandelions and the other worlds and stuff. That was what I kinda meant, I'm just not good at explaining it (and I hope it's understandable now... if not just ignore me, really).
Oh. Another thing. If the Book of Prophecy is indeed complete with the arrival of the first Keyblade war, I wonder if there are future volumes to add to it that the MoM somehow managed to write. After all, No Name sees everything...

Well, while I do understand why you would think of Braig, as far as I read his character, Braig just isn't that intelligent, he is just an oportunist, in the right place at the right time, as long as it's in his immediate benefit. Plus I just dont get the feel that Braig and Xigbar could be THAT important in the overall plot, surely an important pawn but not THAT important... But whatever is possible...
I'm very on the fence with Braig. He doesn't show off any outstanding intelligence, but I wouldn't rule it out yet. There is just too much that is still mysterious about him even though he seems like this easy, simple guy. And we still don't really know what's in for him, putting up with Xehanort that is. But that's an entirely different topic, I didn't mean to bring it up xD

If Blaine has any connections to Gula, he could be a spy or something like that. If Blaine has a connection to MoM and Luxu, he could be another character who watches and keeps things unfolding as they should according to MoM's intentions.
That would make a lot of sense. Since the MoM picked all of the Union Leaders, I can't wait to see his reasoning for his picks.
 

DarkosOverlord

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Nice thread. Refreshing to see a theory that doesn't go over the top with travels and reincarnations (no offence to anyone who came up with such theories)

It would definitely make up for the complete absence of X-Blade in this first part of X, and for the really shallow "War" in those final quests.
I think it's as clear as the current storyline allows it to be, and I'm sure it has to do with the page and possibly the ever-so-famous traitor
(still looking at you, Litzie.)
The only thing... I wouldn't even call it an "inconsistency", is that Grandma's story does talk about a war to gather Light, but it's not really a mistake.
It is quite possible and only reasonable that Lux will play a part with the new Leaders as well.

Haven't quite read all of the comments in this thread so I apologize for repeating stuff if that's the case.
The only thing I hope is the same fear we discussed when the first Union upgrade was launched: I just hope things will be different enough and not another Back Cover 2.0, so to speak. Something more than just repeating the Foretellers' mistakes.
I think that is all for me, so toddles!
 

Muke

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Nice thread. Refreshing to see a theory that doesn't go over the top with travels and reincarnations (no offence to anyone who came up with such theories)

It would definitely make up for the complete absence of X-Blade in this first part of X, and for the really shallow "War" in those final quests.
I think it's as clear as the current storyline allows it to be, and I'm sure it has to do with the page and possibly the ever-so-famous traitor
(still looking at you, Litzie.)
The only thing... I wouldn't even call it an "inconsistency", is that Grandma's story does talk about a war to gather Light, but it's not really a mistake.
It is quite possible and only reasonable that Lux will play a part with the new Leaders as well.

Haven't quite read all of the comments in this thread so I apologize for repeating stuff if that's the case.
The only thing I hope is the same fear we discussed when the first Union upgrade was launched: I just hope things will be different enough and not another Back Cover 2.0, so to speak. Something more than just repeating the Foretellers' mistakes.
I think that is all for me, so toddles!
Thaaanks!

Ahh, shoot. Thank you for pointing that out! I knew I should've read through those lines again instead of going off-of memory, but oh well. :D
Also, not gonna lie, I was waiting for your response. I was curious about what you might think, since you do think 'out of the box' sometimes, if you know what I mean. xD
 

DarkosOverlord

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Thaaanks!

Ahh, shoot. Thank you for pointing that out! I knew I should've read through those lines again instead of going off-of memory, but oh well. :D
Also, not gonna lie, I was waiting for your response. I was curious about what you might think, since you do think 'out of the box' sometimes, if you know what I mean. xD

Boy, do I feel so flattered then! °///°
I hope my answer wasn't too disappointing, didn't find much else to say.
 

Muke

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By the way - another thing that could back this up this is that Yen Sid says the following in DDD:
DDD said:
The Keyblade Wars of yore plunged the true Kingdom Hearts into darkness, and the Chi-blade was shattered. But the light still shining in the hearts of children rebuilt the world that we know today. And the light from the broken Chi-blade was then divided into seven, to protect the number of pure hearts in the world.

Keyblade Wars… plural. Just saying.
 

CrystalRaine

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This is a really good theory, Muke! What if the 'Lost Masters' are not the Foretellers, but the Union Leaders, and the whole thing with the Foretellers and the 'Keyblade War' was just a red herring to set the stage for the real Keyblade War?
 

Alpha Baymax

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This is a really good theory, Muke! What if the 'Lost Masters' are not the Foretellers, but the Union Leaders, and the whole thing with the Foretellers and the 'Keyblade War' was just a red herring to set the stage for the real Keyblade War?

I was under the assumption that the theory was implying that to begin with. It would give a stronger relevance to the Keyblade War and makes the stakes more personal if that ended up being the case. Though that does beg the question, were the original Fortellers truly wiped out? or did they shape shift into their animals like Skincrawlers?
 

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I was under the assumption that the theory was implying that to begin with. It would give a stronger relevance to the Keyblade War and makes the stakes more personal if that ended up being the case. Though that does beg the question, were the original Fortellers truly wiped out? or did they shape shift into their animals like Skincrawlers?

I'm under the assumption that all of them, with the exception of Ava died. Ava having to stick around so the Union Leaders follow the rules. However, how one of the weakest Foretellers (Luxu managed to block what seems to be one of her more powerful attacks with relative ease.) didn't die is beyond me. However, she can make clones. I wonder if she just made many clones, and had them deal with the conflict while she ran away after fighting the Player. Though, she is most likely dead.

Assuming Ephemera survives this Second Keyblade War. He is going to become a complete train wreck, even more so if one of the Union Leaders or one of his best friends dies...Ephemera might fall to the darkness if that is the case, which I really hope isn't.

It would also be a good (But, sad) note to end Union Cross on.
 

Muke

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However, how one of the weakest Foretellers (Luxu managed to block what seems to be one of her more powerful attacks with relative ease.) didn't die is beyond me.
Ignoring every other post for a sec - how do you know she is the weakest? There's not a single reason for us to think so, we also don't know whether that was her strongest attack or not.

This is a really good theory, Muke! What if the 'Lost Masters' are not the Foretellers, but the Union Leaders, and the whole thing with the Foretellers and the 'Keyblade War' was just a red herring to set the stage for the real Keyblade War?

Thank you!! About that -
AlphaBaymax said:
I was under the assumption that the theory was implying that to begin with.
^ this
 

palizinhas

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As far as the Lost Page goes, Gula quotes some of it to the Player and Skuld in Chi, something about a bell toll to the start of the final battle or something like that. It's been a while since I read the lead up to the Chi finale.
 

DarkosOverlord

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I personally think she's not the greatest fighter myself (she's both an illusionist and a "War-is-bad-pls-stop-fighting" character, two tropes not often accompanied by strenght), but it's just a personal opinion, there are too many unknown factors.

For example, we also have no idea how powerful Luxu is.
Maybe Ava's an amazing fighter but he's a beast, so she appears weak by comparison.
If you had to gauge a Keyblade Wielder's skill by how they fare against Xehanort, everyone will appear weak.
 

Muke

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So… spoilers for the newest JP quests, obviously.

Now that Marluxia's Somebody has killed (?) Strelitzia, there are a few newer possibilities. What if Lauriam is the traitor? He's already creepy enough, but we don't really know that much about him yet.
 
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Spectre_Dia

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With the revelation that Marly is in Union Cross I think the reason him and Ventus are in the present time is because of the X-Blade. Now in BBS after Aqua destroyed or broke a piece of the proto X-blade it sent everyone within the X-blade's radius to the different worlds or the space between worlds. Now the same thing happens again due to possibly Ventus and Marly fighting over the X-Blade but instead of being sent off into space/different worlds they are sent into different time periods.

Now your wondering why they were just sent to different worlds? Well it could be because this X-blade in the time of fairy tales was at full power and were able to by pass the rules of time travel with the added bonus of memory loss.
 

Alpha Baymax

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With the revelation that Marly is in Union Cross I think the reason him and Ventus are in the present time is because of the X-Blade. Now in BBS after Aqua destroyed or broke a piece of the proto X-blade it sent everyone within the X-blade's radius to the different worlds or the space between worlds. Now the same thing happens again due to possibly Ventus and Marly fighting over the X-Blade but instead of being sent off into space/different worlds they are sent into different time periods.

Now your wondering why they were just sent to different worlds? Well it could be because this X-blade in the time of fairy tales was at full power and were able to by pass the rules of time travel with the added bonus of memory loss.

Personally, I think that they're both sent to the "same" time period. Remember how Lea and Isa were around Ventus age in Radiant Garden? Marluxia definitely seems to be the same age as Axel/Lea. The only reason why Ventus didn't age and Marluxia did is because Ventus is in a comatose state with a fractured heart, and apparently, that stunts your aging.
 
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