Heartless vs. Nobody War

[Veritas7340]

Of all the dark creature species in KH, my favorite one is the Heartless. In my opinion, they are so elegantly simple in their design. They are creatures born of the darkness in people's hearts looking to consume every living heart.

I really disliked that the Heartless took the back seat in KH II. I realize it was done to make room for the new antagonists, the Nobodies, but what if something else happened?

What if the Heartless didn't have to be weaker than Nobodies?

What if that army that Pete spent 10+ years assembling went to war with the Nobodies under Organization XIII's control? ((Maleficient released Pete in BBS and he didn't know of her demise in KHI so presumably he could've spent the decade gathering the army he told Sora about in KHII.)

How cool would that battle(s) be in the game?

What kind of a plot twist would that be?

Even if we assume both powers to be equal just for the sake of this thread, I'm certain most people would accredit the Nobodies with the win so that's not the point here

 

[Solo]

The Nobodies will still win the game, I believe. Heartless act by pure, animalistic instinct, while even the lesser Nobodies are capable of thought and some extent of intelligence. Even when outnumbered, it stands to reason that the Nobodies might possibly flip the odds to their favour by strategising.

In addition, although it isn't directly related to the question, Heartless will obey those who have control over the strongest darkness. I think it's a given that the Organization holds even stronger darkness than Maleficent does; this will cause the Heartless to "defect" from Maleficent's side to the Organization. If Maleficent or Pete were to wage a war against the Organization, they will most certainly lose.

The take-home point is that power isn't the only thing that determines victory or loss.

 

[Veritas7340]

I know the Nobodies would still probably win. I just wanted to see if people thought it would be cool.

 

[Gram]

Sadly I dont see it being much of a war myself. The heartless are mindless and instinctual while the nobodies are capable of human thought.
Though I could see Heartless at the very least holding their ground depending on who is leading them. (say someone like Maleficent or Xehanort. Pete leading them would only get them defeated quicker lol)

I also don't see them having much reason for war as the nobodies dont really have any quarrel with the heartless.

I really disliked that the Heartless took the back seat in KH II.

lol What? The heartless were very much more prominent in kh2 than the nobodies were despite the fact kh2 was supposed to focus on the nobodies.
You can count on your hand the number of encounters you have out of nobodies outside of The World That Never Was while you encounter Heartless countless times.

 

[Veritas7340]

lol What? The heartless were very much more prominent in kh2 than the nobodies were despite the fact kh2 was supposed to focus on the nobodies.
You can count on your hand the number of encounters you have out of nobodies outside of The World That Never Was while you encounter Heartless countless times.

That's in terms of gameplay though. In terms of plot, the story reminded you that heartless were unimportant and less powerful. The scene that I think of is the one in Radiant Garden where Saix's Dusks effortlessly dispose of Maleficent Heartless

 

[Gram]

That's in terms of gameplay though. In terms of plot, the story reminded you that heartless were unimportant and less powerful. The scene that I think of is the one in Radiant Garden where Saix's Dusks effortlessly dispose of Maleficent Heartless

It's in terms of both because you HARDLY ever see the nobodies in scenes until you get to TWTNW. The nobodies are practically non-existent in both not just gameplay terms.

It doesn't matter if we was reminded or not as we still hardly seen them until the end of the game.

 

[The_Echo]

The scene that I think of is the one in Radiant Garden where Saix's Dusks effortlessly dispose of Maleficent Heartless

Everything kills Heartless effortlessly in a cutscene.

Even Sora has been shown to slash through Shadows like butter in cutscenes.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Keep in mind Heartless will just reform if they aren't destroyed by a Keyblade. I think that Heartless have that as an advantage to offset their mindless instincts.

 

[Gram]

Keep in mind Heartless will just reform if they aren't destroyed by a Keyblade. I think that Heartless have that as an advantage to offset their mindless instincts.

Very valid point I had forgotten about that angle of theirs.

 

[gamerobber7]

I was actually hoping that this would happen in KH2 but we didn't get that.

Keep in mind Heartless will just reform if they aren't destroyed by a Keyblade. I think that Heartless have that as an advantage to offset their mindless instincts.

Considering this point then even if Nobodies were smarter the Heartless would eventually overwhelm them with their ever reviving numbers.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

During the Invasion of Hollow Bastion actually we did get fighting between Heartless and Nobodies, Maleficent was even seen in one scene ordering the Heartless to "wipe out the white husks".

It was shown that even Dusks can take on three to four Heartless at once and still win, although considering the rareness of Nobodies compared to Heartless I'd say an all out war between them would be a pretty balanced issue overall with the victory uncertain depending on circumstances other that battle prowess.

Nobodies may be more effective and stronger on their own, but the Heartless are far superior in numbers and despite being driven only by instnct, they can "act" more or less orderly with simple strategies like "overwhelm that particular group of opponents" when they are directed by a powerful leader that can control them like Ansem SoD.

 

[Veritas7340]

Keep in mind Heartless will just reform if they aren't destroyed by a Keyblade. I think that Heartless have that as an advantage to offset their mindless instincts.

Brilliant point. It's too bad it was seemingly forgotten when Saix's Dusks destroyed Maleficient's Heartless. Since Dusks aren't Keyblade wielders, they should've reformed then.

On a broader note, who here likes Heartless more and who here likes Nobodies (Excluding Organization XIII) more?

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Brilliant point. It's too bad it was seemingly forgotten when Saix's Dusks destroyed Maleficient's Heartless. Since Dusks aren't Keyblade wielders, they should've reformed then.

On a broader note, who here likes Heartless more and who here likes Nobodies (Excluding Organization XIII) more?

Heartless defeated by Weapons other than Keyblades do not respawn immediately and also not at the same location. It takes some time for them to reform and then they do so somewhere else most of the time.
Defeating a Heartless with a Keyblade though prevents it from ever respawning because it purifies (and frees) the heart that made this particular Heartless in the first place.

Any Heartles defeated by the FF characters or Disney characters also vanish but do not respawn immediately as seen throughout the series.


On a general level I find the Nobodies more interesting since they can think and plan (and are also modelled after Final Fantasy jobs) while Heartless are nothing more than wild beasts that serve as the typical, mindless force of evil that is just out to destroy for the lulz of it.
Individually though, I find certain types of the Heartless, like for example Invisibles or Neo-Shadows, to be way better design-wise than anything the regular Nobodies can offer so far.

 

[blksabbath74]

Sadly I dont see it being much of a war myself. The heartless are mindless and instinctual while the nobodies are capable of human thought.
Though I could see Heartless at the very least holding their ground depending on who is leading them. (say someone like Maleficent or Xehanort. Pete leading them would only get them defeated quicker lol)

Personally, having Pete become a very powerful villain is something that I have been thinking about alot.

This is something that Clive Barker uses frequently in his novels; the annoying and pathetic lackey of the villain somehow manages to wrest control of the power and become a far worse villain that the original villain.

It's incredibly effective as a plot device. It often coincides with the death or redemption of the original main villain.

 

[Big Mad Draco]

It would be fun to see Pete gain power enough to put Xemnas to shame, but still be as dumb as ever.

 

[blksabbath74]

It would be fun to see Pete gain power enough to put Xemnas to shame, but still be as dumb as ever.

A smart villain with alot of power at least will have an understanding of their limitations. An idiot with all that power and a huge chip on their shoulder is frankly alot more frightening.

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

It would be fun to see Pete gain power enough to put Xemnas to shame, but still be as dumb as ever.

I want this so badly now!

 

[Gram]

Personally, having Pete become a very powerful villain is something that I have been thinking about alot.

This is something that Clive Barker uses frequently in his novels; the annoying and pathetic lackey of the villain somehow manages to wrest control of the power and become a far worse villain that the original villain.

It's incredibly effective as a plot device. It often coincides with the death or redemption of the original main villain.

In Clive Baker novels, as well as other storylines, that does fold well but there is usually also a build up to this event. With Pete in kh all we've gotten is a bumbling nuisance rather than true villain.
Maleficent has also fallen from her menacing status she had in kh1 since she returned in kh2.

I just dont see Pete ever having the qualities to be really much of anything, especially if his main role was to be a leader to the heartless, of which, he showed fear of in kh2 when he and maleficent appeared in TWTNW showing concern that they may not obey them there so close to the dark realm.

If anyone is to fit your scenario I'd see Maleficent doing it and making a come back rather than Pete.

 

[gamerobber7]

Personally, having Pete become a very powerful villain is something that I have been thinking about alot.

This is something that Clive Barker uses frequently in his novels; the annoying and pathetic lackey of the villain somehow manages to wrest control of the power and become a far worse villain that the original villain.

It's incredibly effective as a plot device. It often coincides with the death or redemption of the original main villain.

While it is an effective plot device I can't see Pete being able to utilize it effectively.

In Clive Baker novels, as well as other storylines, that does fold well but there is usually also a build up to this event. With Pete in kh all we've gotten is a bumbling nuisance rather than true villain.
Maleficent has also fallen from her menacing status she had in kh1 since she returned in kh2.

I just dont see Pete ever having the qualities to be really much of anything, especially if his main role was to be a leader to the heartless, of which, he showed fear of in kh2 when he and maleficent appeared in TWTNW showing concern that they may not obey them there so close to the dark realm.

If anyone is to fit your scenario I'd see Maleficent doing it and making a come back rather than Pete.

This is one of my main problems with the KH games since KH1 is that they have downplayed how dangerous the Disney villains are.

I'd like to see Pete keep appearing but it'll probably be Maleficent rising back up to lead the Heartless again. She never really got a chance to strike at the Nobodies.

 

[Gram]

This is one of my main problems with the KH games since KH1 is that they have downplayed how dangerous the Disney villains are.

Its one of everyone's main problems I think.