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Dream a little Dream - Unbirth theory



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Ren

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No, I didn't even mention that. And that's not true, seeing how the sense of incompleteness comes from the Heart missing.

Okay, well I completely read what you said wrong. And I also worded it wrong >.> I didn't mean a nobody had a heart and that's why it fell to crap. Ahum. I'm getting seriously confused by conventional real life associations with the heart and in-game canonization.

What I meant was that the nobodies could feel emotion, but they felt that they lacked something because they don't have the "who you are" part that comes from the heart, like you mentioned.

Aaand, I'm going to sleep because I can feel my brain collapsing on itself in my head.
 

Smile

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What I meant was that the nobodies could feel emotion, but they felt that they lacked something because they don't have the "who you are" part that comes from the heart, like you mentioned.

No, they actually have more of a "who you are" than the Heartless, that's the irony of the Nobodies. They are the body, they are the ones that remember, they are the ones with the name (thus they're able to receive new names).
They are also the ones that fail at being a human being, however, seeing how they lack the most basic definitions of actually being human. The Heart that felt, reacted and was Sora moved on, thus despite Roxas having his name (as shown when Xemnas gave him a new name), his body and for a tiny amount of time, his memories, he wasn't Sora. His Heart - which was what could feel - wasn't there, thus he could feel nothing but his Heart's abscence.
That's Nobodies for you the way they described them thus far.

Aaand, I'm going to sleep because I can feel my brain collapsing on itself in my head.

pfft, weakling. bye bye~

Maybe. She IS in the game after all. Sleeping.

And then there are two ways to explain her -
Either Maleficent made her sleep and that gave birth to an Unbirth,
or maybe we'll get to see how she wakes up, and that's when TAV purified her Unbirth
 

Angel

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This is quite possible, although I want to add something:

What if Ven was Sora's "dream" for when he was older? What if these dreams, these wishes took form when he lost his heart in the form of Roxas?
 

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No shes already pure i dont think a PoH can spawn something evil dude there pure.

Evil has nothing to do with it. Darkness isn't evil; Light, as a result, isn't "good" or "just".
A Heartless is the Heart pulled out of the Body by the Darkness. Seeing how a PoH's Heart cannot house Darkness, it cannot be engulfed by it and thus leave the body.
Unbirths, however, are Dreams - they are no more detached from the Being than one's arm or a leg (on a natural situation). They are given a much greater freedom of movement at the cost of the Dreamer's activity, but they are still a part of the Dreamer - and uncaring as to whether the Dream they influence was a good one or a bad one.
To top it all, we don't know for a fact whether or not the Unbirths are made out of Darkness. Should they be made from the Light, it makes all the more sense that they will be created from a PoH who has no Darkness in her Heart than anyone else.

What if Ven was Sora's "dream" for when he was older? What if these dreams, these wishes took form when he lost his heart in the form of Roxas?

I actually raised that option in the topic post. Ven = Sora's Dream, yet Ven was returned to Sora, or Sora "woke up" from Dreaming Ven. However, Dreams, being in one's subconscious and in part being Memories, are not truly lost. Thus they managed to materialize in Roxas.
 
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It doesn't make sense that the heart stores the memories...nobodies can remember their past lives, but they're made up of the body and the soul, not the heart.

I think the heart harbors light and dark, but not emotions. Nobodies can also feel emotion, it's been canonized that they can. It's not facsimile emotions either.

Nobody cannot feel emotion, the act as if they do, but they don't. They do not have a heart, so they can't make it up.
 

Angel

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I actually raised that option in the topic post. Ven = Sora's Dream, yet Ven was returned to Sora, or Sora "woke up" from Dreaming Ven. However, Dreams, being in one's subconscious and in part being Memories, are not truly lost. Thus they managed to materialize in Roxas.

Sorry, didn't see that.

It is a very plausible theory about the Roxas-Ven connection, though.
 

Cissy

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Grrrr...SA. Your theory is so good that I almost don't want to believe it, just because I don't want to spoil any plot elements in the game. xD

If your theory ends up being even partially correct, remind me to give you cookies. Lots of them.
 

Raiton Kensei

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Good theory. You back it up well and you had more than one view point on the theory. You can tell that you REALLY thought about this.
 

DaisyDuck

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So does that make NiGHTS an Unbirth? j/k

You put a lot of thought into it and Dreams certainly fit with the birth by sleep title. That the Unbirths are born of sleep and are somehow dreams made real is interesting as well as your explination for how they dissapeared. But I still think they have more to do with the Heart than the Soul, especially if they are connected to yet another Kingdom Hearts.

As for the Ven/Sora....well, I don't know about that. It seems a bit too much like Julie Winters and Jungle Queen.
 

Ren

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No, they actually have more of a "who you are" than the Heartless, that's the irony of the Nobodies. They are the body, they are the ones that remember, they are the ones with the name (thus they're able to receive new names).
They are also the ones that fail at being a human being, however, seeing how they lack the most basic definitions of actually being human. The Heart that felt, reacted and was Sora moved on, thus despite Roxas having his name (as shown when Xemnas gave him a new name), his body and for a tiny amount of time, his memories, he wasn't Sora. His Heart - which was what could feel - wasn't there, thus he could feel nothing but his Heart's abscence.
That's Nobodies for you the way they described them thus far.

I've always thought that they never knew who they truly were, despite remembering. They were not their somebodies, but yet they had their memories, and thus had no actual identity. They had no hearts, and therefore no light or darkness. Because both light and darkness shunned them, they didn't "exist", so they searched for hearts to become whole again and ultimately to find who they truly were.

I don't understand anymore T_T My weak brain is going to eat itself.
 

Aqua13

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i like some parts but this sounds like shakespear. can you say it more casual? also how will your theory be involved with the scene where terra talks to xehanort? when terra asks xehanort what he do to vens heart. because you mentioned the scene of the collesium, but skipped the phrase where xehanort told ven to let his heart give in to the darkness.
 

XIII Blades

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wow .. this is by far one of the best, if not the best theory for BBS.
So for that, mad props to you.
I really liked how you proposed the question as to who is the "dreamer", Sora or Ven.
If your theory stands, and it does turn out to be Sora, it would be a crazy twist on the whole KH series.
This was a very good read.
 

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Grrrr...SA. Your theory is so good that I almost don't want to believe it, just because I don't want to spoil any plot elements in the game. xD

If your theory ends up being even partially correct, remind me to give you cookies. Lots of them.

WAI, COOKIES! ^O^ *saves this post*

Good theory. You back it up well and you had more than one view point on the theory. You can tell that you REALLY thought about this.

You have no ideas how much I edited it prior to posting XD
Thank you ^_^

You put a lot of thought into it and Dreams certainly fit with the birth by sleep title. That the Unbirths are born of sleep and are somehow dreams made real is interesting as well as your explination for how they dissapeared. But I still think they have more to do with the Heart than the Soul, especially if they are connected to yet another Kingdom Hearts.

As I keep debating with you in other threads (we like cross-thread debates, don't we? XD) I don't believe truly everything has to have a direct link to the Heart, as CoM based when dealing with the Memories. It affects the Heart, true, but not directly.
Say the Dream is the Heart's strongest wish, and that wish used a portion of the Soul to leave the body and roam around. After all, a Soul by itself is useless.

I've always thought that they never knew who they truly were, despite remembering. They were not their somebodies, but yet they had their memories, and thus had no actual identity. They had no hearts, and therefore no light or darkness. Because both light and darkness shunned them, they didn't "exist", so they searched for hearts to become whole again and ultimately to find who they truly were.

They knew whom they truly were, that's why they also knew they weren't quite the whole person anymore, is my take on this.

i like some parts but this sounds like shakespear. can you say it more casual?

Unbirths are made of dreams. Anything else you want me to elaborate on in layman terms?

also how will your theory be involved with the scene where terra talks to xehanort? when terra asks xehanort what he do to vens heart. because you mentioned the scene of the collesium, but skipped the phrase where xehanort told ven to let his heart give in to the darkness.

He never told him to give in to the Darkness. He told him to give in.
And if Ven or his Dreamer truly were waking up, Ven Giving In could mean him either properly Falling Asleep or Waking Up, thus ending the process properly.
If Ven is the Dreamer, that moment could've been when he Dreamt Sora, thus giving away a piece of himself.

wow .. this is by far one of the best, if not the best theory for BBS.
So for that, mad props to you.
I really liked how you proposed the question as to who is the "dreamer", Sora or Ven.
If your theory stands, and it does turn out to be Sora, it would be a crazy twist on the whole KH series.
This was a very good read.

Thank you ^_________^
The Sora-Ven issue had to have been elaborated on, in part because we don't know quite enough to tell who's what, and in part because going by my assumptions that Unbirths = Dreams, there're many ways in which to explain them :O
 

Captain Garlock

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You still cant ignore one fact that goes against your theory.
Something cant not be made of nothing.
Three parts of a human.
Where do dreams fit in?
They dont
 

Ren

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You still cant ignore one fact that goes against your theory.
Something cant not be made of nothing.
Three parts of a human.
Where do dreams fit in?
They dont

What is being made out of nothing? SA has shown that dreams do fit in--go back and reread her theory if you can't figure it out yet.
 

Captain Garlock

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You did not read my post.
I said the elements of a human.
Dreams dont fit in.

Aunbirth can not be born of something that does not have a physical form.
Which i can usually explain to you.
 
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