Dream a little Dream - Unbirth theory

[Ren]

Im going by the ansem report clearly if dreams were such a big part wouldnt ansem have listed as an important part?

If the unbirths were really made up of dreams, then Ansem wouldn't have known because he studies hearts. It doesn't seem like anyone in the present KH timeline knew about the unbirths, so it wouldn't make sense for people to be specifically studying them and making the connection between dreams and something that doesn't exist anymore.

 

[Rix]

Im not going to argue with you.
Im pretty sure if mickey and ansem talked it would have came up.

Sorry, I'm not sure about what you were trying to say here.. And Mickey doesn't tell people ANYTHING. And Ren just posted something that makes sense.

 

[Smile]

I getcha but the point of that interview was to show something.
The human only has 3 parts.

Dream = the Soul.
I said that repeatedly through the thread and raised this on the topic post.

And im pretty sure dreams canr fit into this.

Says who?

We know unbirths almost have to be made of humans (or something that has to be made)but the thing is dreams have only a small part in the kh world.

Memories weren't important at all until CoM came around and changed that around. BBS might do the same for this.

I like your theory and im kinda leaning on it but that interview makes me think otherwise seeing as how dreams would have been an important part of a human as ansem would have said.

Xehanort writing the reports = didn't remember about Unbirths.
Ansem the Wise = began studying the Heart After BBS - Unbirths weren't around then, how could he mention something he never knew existed?

Thanks Rixam and Ren for backing me up here.
Mickey really wouldn't have told them anthing, especially if he too believed the Unbirths were done and over with after BBS, something which proved itself - they weren't around in any of the preset day games.

 

[Captain Garlock]

Well im going to post something that suggests that if unbirths were dreams that Ansem would have known.

Here are some ansem reports for you.

It was a visitor from another world who cured my grief-stricken heart.
A small king named "Mickey" carried the legendary key in his hand.
Yes, it was the "Keyblade" which was said to have brought chaos and prosperity
to the world a long time ago.
He had a great amount of interesting knowledge, and we had enjoyable lengthy
discussions, growing closer.

On his advice, I decided to re-examine the data from the underground laboratory.

If it had to deal with humans and what they could give off im sure mickey would know seeing as how he was around doing BBS
THATS why i say if this were true mickey would know

Further more.
If dreams were so important why arent they even mentioned to slightest bit more in any of the kh games.
Whose sleeping is natural in this game dreaming is not.,

 

[Smile]

If it had to deal with humans and what they could give off im sure mickey would know seeing as how he was around doing BBS
THATS why i say if this were true mickey would know

I'm not saying Mickey didn't know, I'm saying Mickey didn't share.

Further more.
If dreams were so important why arent they even mentioned to slightest bit more in any of the kh games.
Whose sleeping is natural in this game dreaming is not.,

A) Memories weren't mentioned in KH1 but look at CoM
B) BBS changed the rules of the game. There were't any more Unbirths because of what happened in BBS, that is a fact.
Good enough of a reason why they weren't mentioned in games that came After BBS? XD

Timeline -

Unbirths were around -> BBS -> No Unbirths, yes Heartless and Nobodies -> KH1/CoM/KH2

 

[Ren]

Well im going to post something that suggests that if unbirths were dreams that Ansem would have known.

Here are some ansem reports for you.



If it had to deal with humans and what they could give off im sure mickey would know seeing as how he was around doing BBS
THATS why i say if this were true mickey would know

Further more.
If dreams were so important why arent they even mentioned to slightest bit more in any of the kh games.
Whose sleeping is natural in this game dreaming is not.,

Mickey probably doesn't mention the unbirths because they are extinct and no longer important. Dreams are only connected to unbirths, so it wouldn't make sense to bring them up. They have no relevant connection to the heartless or the nobodies, so it wouldn't make sense for anyone to say anything about them. Make sense?

 

[Captain Garlock]

Ok another thing that makes me think this theory is not even right.

When you are born you have a soul.
You are your soul.
Your soul is who you are.
Birth would be the creation of your soul seeing as how your soul is your being.
Revise Rrebirth was riku being born again with the powers of darkness as he learns that in order to overcome it he must wield it.
In order to be born you need a soul.
Unbirth
ROOT WORD=birth.
Birth= to be made of created in the world to come in to the world.
Un=prefix
To take take back:not
UNBIRTH= not to be born in this world or to come in to the world.
Unbirth when your break in down will ALWAYS have something to do with a person.
Those three elements.
Unbirth couldnt be born from dreams.
Why?
BIRTH to give life
Un not to
Thus something is most likely taken away from the person to make then in unbirth.
If the erase me thing is true.
Ven meant erase my soul since you are your soul.Do you get me?
Unbirth>take away life
Birth>give life
Rebirth> to renew life >__>
Thats just leaves no rooms for dreams.
The only part of the elements of a human that has not been explored is the SOUL!

 

[Ren]

Unfortunately, KH doesn't follow those conventions. The soul has been explored. A nobody is made up of both body an soul, thus rendering your argument null.

 

[Smile]

I already explained that in the topic post.

Birth By Sleep, yo.
That's how dreams are made - when you close your eyes and snooze away. That means, however, that the people are busy sleeping, and not being "alive" - thus the irony in the name "Unbirth".
Like the Heartless which are actually the Hearts, and the Nobodies which are actually the physical entity, the body, the Unbirths were actually given birth very much, spank you kindly.
The Heartless however lost all emotion when falling to the Darkness.
The Nobodies lost their "Somebody"-ness because they no longer had anyone to be.
The Unbirths left the "Dreamer" cut off from life - canceling the Dreamer being alive yet without killing him.

Unbirths aren't the things being "unborn" - their own birth means the Dreamer undergoes that process. Their name is exactly what they are to the Dreamer.
I also brought up an explanation to Ven wanting to be 'erased'.

Unfortunately, KH doesn't follow those conventions. The soul has been explored. A nobody is made up of both body an soul, thus rendering your argument null.

Actually, it's been introduced, not explored, but it does show the "who you are" bit is the Heart, seeing how despite a Nobody having the Soul, he has no true Self to speak of :3
<3

 

[Rix]

Ok another thing that makes me think this theory is not even right.

When you are born you have a soul.
You are your soul.
Your soul is who you are.
Birth would be the creation of your soul seeing as how your soul is your being.
Revise Rrebirth was riku being born again with the powers of darkness as he learns that in order to overcome it he must wield it.
In order to be born you need a soul.
Unbirth
ROOT WORD=birth.
Birth= to be made of created in the world to come in to the world.
Un=prefix
To take take back:not
UNBIRTH= not to be born in this world or to come in to the world.
Unbirth when your break in down will ALWAYS have something to do with a person.
Those three elements.
Unbirth couldnt be born from dreams.
Why?
BIRTH to give life
Un not to
Thus something is most likely taken away from the person to make then in unbirth.
If the erase me thing is true.
Ven meant erase my soul since you are your soul.Do you get me?
Unbirth>take away life
Birth>give life
Rebirth> to renew life >__>
Thats just leaves no rooms for dreams.
The only part of the elements of a human that has not been explored is the SOUL!

Well, I can see what you are trying to get at, but still... Can you explain more clearly why Unbirth=Souls? + the games name is Birth By Sleep after all. Something born out of dreams... I'm not saying that the Birth by Sleep titles means exactly that, but it makes sense.

 

[Captain Garlock]

Ahem i said the soul by its self not with something.
Heartless is the heart
nobody is the body and soul
Unbirth would be the soul only >__>
THATS what i meant.
Birth by sleep you ask why its named that well
that i couldnt explain at the moment im still working on my theory.

 

[Smile]

Ahem i said the soul by its self not with something.

They actually said the opposite since the Soul means life. That would support the Unbirths being related to Souls, actually - them leaving makes the person unborn.

Unbirth would be the soul only >__>

Nobodies aren't just the body, who's to say the same is here? Heck, I'm saying it's not even fully the soul.

Birth by sleep you ask why its named that well
that i couldnt explain at the moment im still working on my theory.

Well my theory explained it XD; :nahnah:

 

[Captain Garlock]

Your theory went by a literial meaning.
My theory is not yet done so yeah i cant exactly say your right or wrong nor can you D:

 

[Ren]

Actually, it's been introduced, not explored, but it does show the "who you are" bit is the Heart, seeing how despite a Nobody having the Soul, he has no true Self to speak of :3
<3

I think I understand now. I think it was said that the nobody has a heart in the sense that they can feel just like a normal human being, but they have a sense of incompleteness. Is that what you mean?

 

[Captain Garlock]

Your heart stores your memories id assume.
Your soul si your being ie who you are.
Sora could not be sora without his soul.
heart>memories
soul>your being
The soul is what you are not your heart your heart only hides your memroies and emotions light and dark also

 

[Ren]

It doesn't make sense that the heart stores the memories...nobodies can remember their past lives, but they're made up of the body and the soul, not the heart.

I think the heart harbors light and dark, but not emotions. Nobodies can also feel emotion, it's been canonized that they can. It's not facsimile emotions either.

 

[Smile]

I think I understand now. I think it was said that the nobody has a heart in the sense that they can feel just like a normal human being, but they have a sense of incompleteness. Is that what you mean?

No, I didn't even mention that. And that's not true, seeing how the sense of incompleteness comes from the Heart missing.
Nobodies can't feel a thing beyond base physical sensations.

Your heart stores your memories id assume.

Then how come the Nobodies have them when the Heart turns into a Heartless?

Your soul si your being ie who you are.
Sora could not be sora without his soul.

He was Sora without his Soul - his Soul was in Roxas but Roxas was away. Your claim is nulled.

The soul is what you are not your heart your heart only hides your memroies and emotions light and dark also

Not in KH.

 

[Captain Garlock]

So your saying sleeping can cause an unbirth.
Ok if dreams cause unbirths can we assume the same for sleeping beauty?

 

[Rix]

Maybe. She IS in the game after all. Sleeping.

 

[Captain Garlock]

Hmm well i guess thats something to think about well im out.
Imma finish the research later for myt heory.
Also unbirth sounnds like it was met for the soul but who knows.