did anybody else... hate Aqua?

[8298906]

As I said before, she frustrated me all throughout her scenario. The first three worlds? I could deal with. She was cute in Cinderella's world and I understood where she was coming from in the Enchanted Dominion. But to suddenly pull what she did in Radiant Garden? Sorry, she lost points there she didn't really get because it was like it never happened afterward. Terra's still the saint she believes in up to when she finds out he killed Eraqus, proper development and inner conflicts be damned.

Interesting. So you're saying that Aqua should had continued to doubt Terra after RG or should have never doubted him to begin with.

 

[Smile]

Interesting. So you're saying that Aqua should had continued to doubt Terra after RG or should have never doubted him to begin with.

She had a reason to doubt him, but they went about it in far too extreme ways in both directions.
All three members of TAV had behavioral-peaks in Radiant Garden, to the point it feels detached for all three. Terra went all emo but after that he went to being BFFish and concerned and longing with flashback after flashback; contradictory much. Ven I can somehow understand still as he basically saw his "family" fall apart and Aqua portrayed as a backstabber, and under Eraqus's orders to boot, but I'd have liked it a lot better if he didn't have to go through like two and a half worlds looking for new friends before he remembered that he needed to try and keep his old ones.
And Aqua... iono. It feels like after her run-in with Vanitas in Radiant Garden she stopped believing completely in both Terra and Ven despite it all and took it on herself to save them both. Only at one point it all aimed itself at Ven while Terra became some god-like concept for her to worship and mutter to herself about how he's keeping himself in shape, only to later have her crisis of faith be not as believable as it could've been.

 

[Chrono Mizaki]

As a person who cares a lot more about character development than plot (and doesn't hold BBS in such high regards about the plot, either), I do admit I enjoyed Days better than I did BBS.

I can see why you enjoyed Days than Birth by Sleep, but I honestly thought the character development was mediocre at best. It just really tells me that Square-Enix need to sack it writers because so far, KH might be getting better, but the writing been terrible since KHII. Days felt like the story was best read from the Wikipedia rather than experiencing the game. Pacing has destroyed the Game's narrative.

If you could swallow that, then congratulations, you find something good in the game. For me, I haven't found nought but a heap of shit writing with some good writing in there. I take my character development seriously and I do love character development over a plot, as I believe the character MAKES the plot. But Day's narrative was not solid enough.

I also think that, while I didn't play the final episode yet, what I did play could've been summed up in about two-three flashbacks and didn't need a whole game to show us a trio that for better or worse isn't really functioning and whose characters are bi-polar to the max.

Then again, the same could be said for 358/2 Days. Since the lack of story progression is quite a common occurence in Days, where it's normal to be few days at a time, to have no progression at all. What character progression was there apart from a few key points? Oh yeah, the ice cream scene, which was a load of bollocks.

Birth by Sleep actually uncovered more events than say 358/2 Days. Sure, it wasn't tip-top perfect and for its five years of development, it is actually downright insulting. But then, it was a far more worthy installment in the series than Days, with a combat system that broke the tired and traditional combat system that KH uses.

With all that, it's much much better than the past two KH games.

And Aqua... iono. It feels like after her run-in with Vanitas in Radiant Garden she stopped believing completely in both Terra and Ven despite it all and took it on herself to save them both. Only at one point it all aimed itself at Ven while Terra became some god-like concept for her to worship and mutter to herself about how he's keeping himself in shape, only to later have her crisis of faith be not as believable as it could've been.

...Was about to criticise, but i'm going to play through the game and come back with a criticism. I haven't touch Aquas and haven't completed Vens yet. Dunno why, but from my perspective, I like to argue about KH rather than playing the damn thing.

 

[Smile]

So far, for the vast majority of it, BBS hasn't told me anything I didn't know since Another Report and the FM+. Days did, even if it was why it took a bloody year for Sora to wake up when it took Namine a week once she had all the Memories at hand. Also, it showed us that Riku and Sora's Memories are intermingling. Plot points for Xion.

...Was about to criticise, but i'm going to play through the game and come back with a criticism. I haven't touch Aquas and haven't completed Vens yet. Dunno why, but from my perspective, I like to argue about KH rather than playing the damn thing.

Ven's scenario is actually where I truly began to lose hope with Aqua, albeit at the end of it. The ending sequence when they fight Xehanort and Vanitas, really... Aqua make up your freaking mind and now I don't care you're in the middle of a battle. Should've thought about how you behave and what you really feel before.

 

[Zulkir]

I found Aqua better than any other female character in KH, but I'm not sure if that makes a world of difference because I find pretty much all of them...blargh.


Larxene was the best at doing what she was supposed to do, despite me hating that "type" of character but that's how she's intended.

Aqua is the only one who seems to care about both Terra and Ven a lot, she's just poisoned by Eraqus's NO DURKNESS, DURKNESS IS EEVIL mentality.

The only thing that irks me is that the series goes out of it's way to point out that darkness isn't evil, but in BBS both Eraqus's and Aqua's fear of the darkness become...proven considering what MX does. She was "right" to hate and fear darkness because of what it did to Terra, seems contradictory to what was pointed out earlier, that darkness is a part of everything we must accept.

Even Terra seems to see it different from Riku, despite "accepting" it, he still sees it as sort of a curse he has to bear rather than something which is okay to have.


But yeah, I don't think the characters were "bi-polar". I think Terra puts a shit-ton of faith in his friends, and when he saw that Aqua doubted him and thought he was going astray, it really hurt him because he felt that they would trust him where no one else would.



Aqua's voice acting may be a big instigator of her hate, it just sets her mood badly in every way.

I can't help but notice I began to dislike her only when I played the English version, watch the JP playthrough and all the sudden she seems better.


Goes to show how much good VA'ing makes a difference, you don't notice it until good voice acting is left out.

YouTube - strwbrymilk's Channel


Here y'all go, all of her JP cutscenes.

 

[HeartSeams]

I still don't get the hate for Aqua's VA. I love it.
I also introduced a friend to the KH series with BBS and she loved both Aqua and her voice. -shrugs-

 

[Smile]

It wasn't border-line or similar or nothing. She actually sounded robotic in quite a few scenes. Ones where at least some minimal amount of emotion was mandatory, not preferred. :\

 

[HeartSeams]

Aqua's was my fav of the new VAs. I thought her voice (which people call "emotionless") more sounded like someone who was calm and collected. Aqua's strong, which is why she doesn't get overly emotional or over-the-top angry. Even through all the shit she goes through, she keeps calm and carries on. Personally, I think that's what makes the secret ending so impactful because she finally breaks down and cries--but it's not even tears of sorrow, it's of hope.

srsly, people need to give Aqua's VA more credit, imo.

^is what i thought about it.

 

[Smile]

I liked a bit of her whisperings as well, but that's not what I was talking about. I didn't sound robotic as in composed but literally that. She has like those. Periods. Between. Words. Making. For. Weird. Acting.

 

[Theart]

I liked a bit of her whisperings as well, but that's not what I was talking about. I didn't sound robotic as in composed but literally that. She has like those. Periods. Between. Words. Making. For. Weird. Acting.

And you're telling me that THIS is a better performance, right?



On another note, I honestly can't see how Days had good character development, especially if you're claiming that it did a better job than BBS. =/

 

[Smile]

Considering the emotional stress and circumstances? Yes. Especially when I don't trash Aqua's voice acting all the time and admit she had her moments.
But I fail to see your point of trying to protect Aqua's acting by trashing another character's voice. It proves nothing save that you're zealous.

Days had nothing BUT characters which means that they at least bothered. Most of BBs feels like it was there for the lulz for me. You have Vanitroll, Terra and Ven who went about it for the lulz before being trolled by Vanitas and Xehanort, and at least inside her own scenario I found Aqua to be perioding for the most part. And not in a way that makes me think the writing was good.

Days had characters, BBS had a pretense of plot. For Days, that's what killed it for most people, but is exactly what made me love it a lot more than I do BBS in its current incarnation.

 

[Sempied]

Aqua's was my fav of the new VAs. I thought her voice (which people call "emotionless") more sounded like someone who was calm and collected. Aqua's strong, which is why she doesn't get overly emotional or over-the-top angry. Even through all the shit she goes through, she keeps calm and carries on. Personally, I think that's what makes the secret ending so impactful because she finally breaks down and cries--but it's not even tears of sorrow, it's of hope.

srsly, people need to give Aqua's VA more credit, imo.

^is what i thought about it.

This is a good point. People look at JP Aqua, and then to NA, and the call "Robot!" without thinking sometimes.

As via the Addendum english VA's for BbS weren't chosen based on their JP, but just how they fit. Willa fit Aqua by her character of cool, relaxed, and an intellectual. While this still applies I can agree some lines like the charm speech, and the last line (Not Blank Points) "There is always a way." felt flat, and dissapointing

 

[Theart]

Considering the emotional stress and circumstances? Yes. But I fail to see your point of trying to protect Aqua's acting by trashing another character's voice. It proves nothing.

No, it proves something to me. But that's neither here nor there.

Days had nothing BUT characters which means that they at least bothered. Most of BBS feels like it was there for the lulz for me. You have Vanitroll, Terra and Ven who went about it for the lulz before being trolled by Vanitas and Xehanort, and at least inside her own scenario I found Aqua to be perioding for the most part. And not in a way that makes me think the writing was good.

Characters that were butchered, or at least written in a rather OOC manner. =/

Honestly, you expect me to believe Riku would wait an entire YEAR for someone to make up her mind (heck, even letting her decide sounded a tad OOC for Riku), while his BEST FRIEND was in a comatose state thanks to the girl? =/ Sorry, but no. I vastly preferred BBS in the development department. And the characters in BBS were actually really likable, personally.

 

[Smile]

Considering what Riku's gone through with Repliku, his own issues, Xion's ties to Sora and Kairi and Namine and his own guilt trips, as well as Xion absorbing his own Memories?
Also, the fact he didn't wait a whole year?
Yes. Yes, I do very much understand his behavior in Days.

But it's no surprise our difference in preferences and opinions differ. We've known that for a while.

 

[Zulkir]

I didn't like Xion's much either, but I do think Aqua was robotic in English(except for a few scenes, I thought she was okay in the Final Episode). Her JP voice was one of the best one out there, third to MX's and Vanitas's JP voice.

I still don't get the hate for Aqua's VA. I love it.
I also introduced a friend to the KH series with BBS and she loved both Aqua and her voice. -shrugs-

Meh, I liked Terra's voice a lot and didn't like Aqua's so much, then I get people who say Aqua's was awesome and Terra's sucked. Guess people are just used to certain tones. I get people who argue whether KH1 is better than BBS or BBS is better.

This is about the first time I've seen someone say KH2 and Days are better than BBS. Some people need to see maleficent's derp-revival scene and the 24 hours of Xion-pampering+ice-cream fests again.

 

[Theart]

Considering what Riku's gone through with Repliku, his own issues, Xion's ties to Sora and Kairi and Namine and his own guilt trips, as well as Xion absorbing his own Memories?
Also, the fact he didn't wait a whole year?
Yes. Yes, I do very much understand his behavior in Days.

But it's no surprise our difference in preferences and opinions differ. We've known that for a while.

Okay, not a year. Still far too long than I'd expect from Riku. =/ What the hell was Riku doing all that time, if what he wanted to do was help Sora? He knew for a good while what needed to happen for Sora to wake up. Nothing could've changed Xion's fate. And waiting only made for a bigger risk out of Xion and Xemnas' plans for her.

 

[Smile]

And yet - it was already proved he wouldn't quite do anything and everything. He had his limits, and that's something I actually respect him for.

You know what the funnest part about this is, though? That it's unrelated C: We're talking about why some people think Aqua's poorly written, not Days.

 

[Zulkir]

You know what the funnest part about this is, though? That it's unrelated C: We're talking about why some people think Aqua's poorly written, not Days.

Maybe on the subject of Riku, but comparing characters like Xion, Nami and Kairi to Aqua isn't too far off.

 

[loke13]

Some people will never be satisfied.

 

[Reika]

Before I start on this, I'd like to say that 'Days' and 'development' should never be in the same sentence.

but oh, let's all ignore the fact Eraqus was out to kill both Terra and Ven and get on Terra's case for not letting him do it.

Okay, I'm lost, when the hell did she do that? To MY memory, she didn't blame Terra for killing Eraqus, she blamed him for falling into Xehanort's trap, and was about to fall into Xehanort's trap AGAIN. Terra listened to Xehanort, and that led him to "kill" Eraqus. Because, were it not for MX turning Terra against Eraqus, there would have been another option to that situation: leaving the LoD with Ven and avoiding a fight with Eraqus altogether. Because if Terra still held faith in Eraqus, he would have known that Eraqus did not have evil intentions and was obviously clouded in judgment. Hell, TERRA admitted that killing Eraqus was not the answer:
"I was stupid and helped Xehanort do it."
Yes, Eraqus was about to hurt Ven. But blindly following Xehanort's advice was not the answer to this problem.

and whose characters are bi-polar to the max. I understand the mood swings but there's changing attitudes and there's mood swings, and if it's the later like I feel it was in Radiant Garden, thanks, but no thanks.

How were they bipolar in any way? :/

Terra went all emo but after that he went to being BFFish and concerned and longing with flashback after flashback; contradictory much.

.... no, no he didn't. He didn't HATE Aqua, he was just angry at her lack of trust in him. That doesn't mean the friendship is off. Of COURSE he'll have flashbacks, because he still cares.

Ven I can somehow understand still as he basically saw his "family" fall apart and Aqua portrayed as a backstabber, and under Eraqus's orders to boot, but I'd have liked it a lot better if he didn't have to go through like two and a half worlds looking for new friends before he remembered that he needed to try and keep his old ones.

He's a kid, what did you expect? That's the only family and friendship he's ever known, and he has never seen things get THAT bad. Even Ven begins to lack faith in Terra, and already lacked faith in Aqua as a friend. So, in his depression, he thinks he's out two friends and needs new ones. He's young and naive, his actions were that of a child. Him realizing he was wrong and that he DOES still have friends in Terra and Aqua is a little thing we like to call character development. He became mature enough to come to that realization. He just needed a little help to do it.

And Aqua... iono. It feels like after her run-in with Vanitas in Radiant Garden she stopped believing completely in both Terra and Ven despite it all and took it on herself to save them both.

She had reason to not believe in Terra. Even Terra admitted this was the right thing to do, that he didn't deserve others believing in him because it was all in vain.
As for her and Ven, she's shown that she knows Ven isn't the little kid Terra and Aqua treated him as (and with them babying him for so long, it's no wonder Ven still acted like a child up until Olympus Coliseum). There's one scene (though I can't remember which world it was, Neverland maybe?) where she realized that maybe it was Ven's time to leave and grow up. And then her realizing that Ven has matured when after she fought with Vanitas in Neverland.

But to suddenly pull what she did in Radiant Garden? Sorry, she lost points there she didn't really get because it was like it never happened afterward. Terra's still the saint she believes in up to when she finds out he killed Eraqus, proper development and inner conflicts be damned.

.... when did she act like Terra was a saint after Radiant Garden? True, she didn't want to believe Terra had struck Eraqus down, but who would want to? Nobody wants to believe that their best friend killed their father figure.
In other scenes aside from that one, she expresses wavering faith, until the faith is all but abandoned in Keyblade Graveyard. Little things, like the scenes with Stitch, boosted her morale a bit, but she was obviously just trying to quell the feeling that Terra was giving into the darkness, and that, deep down, she knew Terra was screwing up right and left. Did you play through her scenes at Olympus Coliseum at ALL? Where she wonders WTH he did? In Enchanted Dominion, she showed signs of losing faith in him, as well. She gave into those fears when she met with him at Radiant Garden, then went back to trying to pretend he wasn't becoming a darkness douche, when she knew deep down he was. This is shown multiple times. Little things pick her up, but then reality slaps her again and she begins to doubt Terra.
At Destiny Islands, she obviously saw Keyblade wielding as a curse. Gee, why would she believe that? It couldn't be because of TERRA, could it? Especially when you consider that little speech she gave to Sora, expressing some fear that Riku would walk down the same dark path as Terra.

You know what the funnest part about this is, though? That it's unrelated C: We're talking about why some people think Aqua's poorly written, not Days.

You're the one who brought it up, by saying you preferred Days over BBS and why you preferred Days over BBS. People were merely offering rebuttal to the opinion you presented.