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[TheMuffinMan]

Of course not, I did not state that friendship = sexual attraction, my point is that if you say that Axel has emotions (atleast to the point of having feelings of friendship/loyalty towards Roxas) then denying Axel's ability to love by stating "He can't because he's a Nobody" is idiotic and hypocritical, you can't have him experiencing one without him having the ability to experience the other.





but yeah, Axel totally wants to do Roxas

 

[Koji]

Oh yeah, you're right. Roxas and Namine also had feelings. I agree exept for the last line.

 

[Mythological Omega]

Of course not, I did not state that friendship = sexual attraction, my point is that if you say that Axel has emotions (atleast to the point of having feelings of friendship/loyalty towards Roxas) then denying Axel's ability to love by stating "He can't because he's a Nobody" is idiotic and hypocritical, you can't have him experiencing one without him having the ability to experience the other.





but yeah, Axel totally wants to do Roxas

I completely agree, especially with the last line.:lol:

 

[Sir Jecht]

^lol, you guys are cracking me up with that choo-choo thing. I like that.


Sorry ,my bad. Let me re-phrase that. Axel is a good guy, and he helped defeat the org. If you dont like him then that's okay. But if you hate him, then you were either 1)in love with the org or 2)jealous of him. You got another reason?


I did explain Sora would have not survived without Axel's sacrifice. Though Sora had defeated 1000 Heartless, he would not have had the strength to deafeat those nobodies (who knows if it was 1000? Seemed like they just kept coming). Nobodies are also stronger, and can think.


At the begining of KH2, Axel wasnt gonna help them. He still had his COM personallity, as TMM said, sadistic. And killing your best friend is sadistic. Axel sent nobodies to capture Roxas but it failed. Then he was given orders to kill Roxas, and he tried, but Roxas pulled out 2 keyblades and layed some totally wild ass-whipping attacks on Axel. Axel wasnt able to kill Roxas because Roxas was the nobody of the keyblade master of light. Dont you remember all this?

Nah I don't hate Axel I just hate what he did, I just can't stand people like that is all. His sacrifice was meaningless and he like completely changed from when he was in COM it's like he's two-faced. I dislike him for the choices he made and how he went about doing things..not cause I'm jealous or like the Org. more.


Axel+Sora+Donald+Goofy should have been enough to stop the Nobodies in my opinion Axel didn't even get a chance to actually help in a better way which I know he could have. Even with that many Nobodies victory was still in reach even without his sacrifice is all I'm saying, but sadly I don't think we'll ever know now.(does anyone see that I actually want Axel to live.....anyone? at all?..come on)

I agree with what Tokyly said about COM Axel and KH2 Axel(even in the beginning) as different. Axel in the beginning was after Roxas but he obviously wanted Roxas to remember who he was and how they were friends, even with the order to kill Roxas he knew he couldn't do that even when he tried it seemed he was holding back...why is that so hard to believe? His feeling got in the way of his orders...that why he didn't kill Sora or kairi or anyone else connected to Sora/Roxas.(even though they weren't ordered to be killed but still.)

Edit

 

[Koji]

^Oh, I see where you're coming from now. Axel changed between the games and situations just to benefit himself. He was 2-faced, always staying on the stronger side, and that was a reason I hated him at first. But when he killed himself, he showed that he did care about someone other than himself. It was like an atonement. Had he not died, he would still be two-faced Axel....well, at least in my opinion.

 

[bond of flames]

kh2.and ur right.axel shoundt hav sacrificed himself like that.
hewas an awesome character

 

[Sir Jecht]

^Oh, I see where you're coming from now. Axel changed between the games and situations just to benefit himself. He was 2-faced, always staying on the stronger side, and that was a reason I hated him at first. But when he killed himself, he showed that he did care about someone other than himself. It was like an atonement. Had he not died, he would still be two-faced Axel....well, at least in my opinion.

Yeah...ok I think we understand each other now.

Well Tokyly probably still thinks I'm a sicko...but I tired kinda.

 

[Tokyly]

Eh? Nah, I don't I just wanted something to come out clear:

Some people are posting saying "Axel is a pedophile/Gay" as a fact, This is not a fact, it is not even a supported theory in any way, people are making assumptions based on their own views because of cutsoms, prejudices, and societies views towards the overall subjects surrounding that nature, not to mention what they WANT to happen. As stated AxRox is only For Fanfics and nothing more. I don't care if nobodies can feel, have that kind of relationship, or what have you, my previously stated arguement in this post makes that irrelevant.

Not bashing anyone or anything but THAT was the point where no one was thinking.

 

[Sir Jecht]

Eh? Nah, I don't I just wanted something to come out clear:

Some people are posting saying "Axel is a pedophile/Gay" as a fact, This is not a fact, it is not even a supported theory in any way, people are making assumptions based on their own views because of cutsoms, prejudices, and societies views towards the overall subjects surrounding that nature, not to mention what they WANT to happen. As stated AxRox is only For Fanfics and nothing more. I don't care if nobodies can feel, have that kind of relationship, or what have you, my previously stated arguement in this post makes that irrelevant.

Not bashing anyone or anything but THAT was the point where no one was thinking.

I can understand that but how can you say that what they are saying are facts? Of course it's just interpretation that right now can't be stated as wrong or right so really it's just that since a lot of people disagree with it then it must be wrong. No? My views of Axel being gay are my assumptions not my secret desires as some might believe D: to me it's just like how people view Marluxia as gay just cause he has a certain feminine look(all the pink).

Whether or not an Org. member is this or that can't really be proven(as of now) cause it's all just assumptions and interpretations that everyone gets from the game, saying that they are not thinking logically just is something I don't agree with at times. savvy?

 

[TheMuffinMan]

Right, so we have to have been brought up 'a certain way' with 'certain customs' and have prejudices in order to see that a character is homosexual, and a pedophile? lul, k, I see how it is, racist

 

[Voltron]

i just despise him and i think he is gay but that is just my opinion so sue me

 

[Mythological Omega]

That's my opinion of him too. Sue us.

 

[Tokyly]

Hey, you can hate him all you want guys, but atleast provide a good reason for hating him, not 'just because'. Hell I'd take 'I hate his look' (meaning his head area basically since then you'd hate all org members) which would make a heck of a lot more sense than 'cause hes gay' which can't be proven.

And TMM, you crossed the line there buddy, I named the 3 basis' of humans making judgements on others, and you know what? YES YOU DO, because there are obviously people like me, who were brought up different than you, that say Axel isn't gay, we all have different points of view, which means you just proved my point! However some of us actually base our assumptions on the knowns instead of the totally unknowns like you are going out there with no rhyme or reason for calling Axel gay, oh he looks gay, his intereactions are gay? Yeah, A track star could look slow and be slow everywhere else except on the track and that means hes slow? No, it doesn't, Axel never even hinted that he was gay, there were no sexual advances or intimate sequences in kh between axel and roxas at all so you assuming that is just a fantasy.

Thank you ~ ^^

 

[Voltron]

i have provided many reasons why i hate go near the first three pages or something and see why

 

[TheMuffinMan]

And TMM, you crossed the line there buddy, I named the 3 basis' of humans making judgements on others, and you know what? YES YOU DO

Right, because obviously my opinion stems from some deep inner prejudice, right? My upbringing just engraved all my future opinions, right?

An opinion is an opinion, you don't have to be raised a different way from another person in order to have a different opinion than theirs. My sister and I are barely a year apart in age and we've been together our whole lives, born and rasied together, yet we have entirely different opinions.

She's a vegetarian and an animal rights activist, I love meat and wouldn't bat an eye at a dead fox lying by the highway, where does your 'upbringing' basis for determining one's future opinion fall into this?

because there are obviously people like me, who were brought up different than you, that say Axel isn't gay, we all have different points of view, which means you just proved my point!

No, your point is unfounded. 2 people can be raised identically, be twins even, and have completely different lifestyles and outlooks on life and opinions, despite having the same upbringing and influences. You don't need to have some deep inner prejudice or seeded hatred in order to have an opinion

However some of us actually base our assumptions on the knowns instead of the totally unknowns like you are going out there with no rhyme or reason for calling Axel gay, oh he looks gay, his intereactions are gay?

Right, just go ahead and try and demeanor my opinion, then try and glorify your own in an attempt to justify your undeserved sense of superiority. You have no reaosn to think that your opinion is any better than mine or any more factual, yet you try and demeanor other's views by calling them 'obsessed' and saying that your own views are based on more 'factual' evidence or more 'realistic' reasons or 'the known'. Choo-choo

Yeah, A track star could look slow and be slow everywhere else except on the track and that means hes slow? No, it doesn't

So, you're saying that Axel may look gay, act gay, sound gay, but be straight. Yet, in your opinion he does not pertain to any of those 3 things. So in your own words, because you see Axel as not acting/talking/looking gay, that means that for all you know he very well could be Gay, despite your own views and opinions of what he seems to be at face value

Right....

Axel never even hinted that he was gay, there were no sexual advances or intimate sequences in kh between axel and roxas at all so you assuming that is just a fantasy.

lol, guess what? Axel never hinted he was straight either. By your own standards I have a more 'realistic' assumption, because I'm basing my opinion on 'the known', said 'known' being that Axel is chasing after his under-age-boy-lover throughout the entire game.

So let's see here, Axel chases little boy around saying he 'made him feel like he had a heart', talks about 'missing him' when he's gone, throws a fit because boy doesn't remember him, now where exactly is your 'known' and 'factual' reasons for him liking Women again? All I see is his obsession with his boy

Looks like by your standards, my opinion has more of a 'realistic' and 'factual' justification

 

[Tokyly]

*high fives* you made me remember the last point. self expierences also shape our views.

plus you contradicted yourself:

Axel has shown no signs of being straight either, and yet you said that if he acts straight . . etc. than he could be gay, that just didn't make any sense sorry.

Also my views make more sense in the factual sense because I can back them up with the fact that no one in KH is gay, while you cannot back up your assumptions in that sense. Also the 'deep inner prejudice' is part of upbringings that sometimes hsape peoples views, you've taken the reasons for views that I have stated and actually thought that I was directing them at you *gives another high five* thanks for taking it personally, but It wasn't at you or anyone in this topic, it was only a fact stated for serving the purpose of explaining how humans can come to their judgements of others and other things.

 

[Voltron]

actually tokyly TMM made more sense than yours and im not just saying that because i agree with him on the terms of hating axel

 

[TheMuffinMan]

you contradicted yourself:

Axel has shown no signs of being straight either, and yet you said that if he acts straight . . etc. than he could be gay, that just didn't make any sense sorry.

Axel never showed any signs of being attracted to Women, all we see is him chasing after his boyfriend. Thus: Axel has shown no signs of being straight

You said that just because a Track Runner looks slow when he's not on the track doesn't mean he is, which translates into this argument as "Just because Axel looks gay, talks gay, acts gay, doesn't mean he's gay". But, in your opinion, Axel does not look gay, talk gay, or act gay, which if applied to your analogy means that Axel very well could be Gay despite your own opinion of him showing no signs of it

Also my views make more sense in the factual sense because I can back them up with the fact that no one in KH is gay

Right, except the fact that you can't. Choo-choo

while you cannot back up your assumptions in that sense.

I can back it up with interperitations of the game cut-scenes

 

[Tokyly]

Wait doesn't that mean I can back them up with my interpretations of the games cut-scenes as well? Yes, lol.

I said Axel never made any Gay advances or anything.

Hm, let me explain it like this:

Reasons Axel Might be Gay:

He chased after Roxas -

Ok now, when you are nothing, and all the other nothings are pricks, and then one comes along that isn't a prick, don't you technically 'like that person' and not like the others? In your opinion, since he isn't a prick to you, and you two get along pretty well, and since you are nothing and this is the only person you really know who isn't well you know, prick-ish, you saying that you can't like him for not being prickish like everyone else?

He was obsessed with Roxas -

OK, he lost his only friend, he wanted to get him back from the people who had taken him away, is that so bad? we've seen tons of titles like this, it just happened to be portayed from this angle and in this situation.

He's gay cause he told Sora that him and Roxas made him feel like he had a heart -

This is Disney, and besides, two people with completely different personality's making Axel feel gay? usually people only like or prefer a certain type of person, and there was a considerable difference between Roxas and Sora. Not to mention that this is Disney and Square here, he didn't have a heart, so when he felt he did, that is significant.

He was always seen around guys, especially Sora -

Circumstancial, not to mention he was trying to get Roxas back.

Well he acted gay -

This runs along the lines of when I said Axel died because of Nomura. Well Axel didn't turn out gay because of Nomura, go figure. If he was gay and was dieing and actually was gay with Roxas, he probably would have been like 'i love you roxas' or something of the like, not 'I digress, go find kairi' and then disappear, sound gay to you? I think not.

 

[Voltron]

well on the last part he couldnt have said that to roxas because um he was never there.