BBS Power Scaled Relative to KHI and KHII

[TerraTF]

wouldn't that make him the strongest, though? he's always made weak at the beginning of games, but manages to catch up to boss level by the end of the game every time. he could be incredibly strong by now if it weren't for all the resets he's been through, so i guess you mean circumstances have made him the weakest of the bunch.

Which is why he's the weakest. He's not training himself, he's training Ven. Sora may have a pure enough heart to get a Keyblade, but he is nowhere near the strongest character we have played as.

 

[h.e.hassanein]

Which is why he's the weakest. He's not training himself, he's training Ven. Sora may have a pure enough heart to get a Keyblade, but he is nowhere near the strongest character we have played as.

i'm not quite sure i understand what you mean by training ven? sora houses his heart obviously- that's part of why he could wield at first- but his body (and therefore his strength) is all his own.

 

[Rolands]

how would either of you have preferred the games to begin then? i'm genuinely curious. if the games started where the last one ended we would have sora start at level 99 strength....you'd already be stronger than all the heartless around.
and if the gamemakers tried to make this work by causing the heartless in turn to get stronger it'd be useless to have sora at level 99 at all. from a design point of view, how would you have fixed this?

Honestly, I just wouldn't have included a reason for Sora to become weaker, but would let the game play out the same. How much stronger Sora grows in each game isn't even very quantifiable. When you get to the end-game enemies, lots of them are just the same old ones with higher stats, so their and Sora's increase in strength might have just been for the sake of gameplay. Of course that doesn't account for lost skills, but hey, they didn't even bother explaining why Terra and Aqua only had a few skills at the start of BBS, and it wasn't a big deal there.

Thinking about it, I actually don't have a big problem with most of the explanations for Sora's de-leveling. But the explanation they gave in KH2 was just awful. "You slept for a year, you're out of practice." Give me a break. Sleeping for a year, especially in a stasis pod that seems to eliminate any need for food or water, should not erase all the progress you've made. My lifestyle is largely sedentary right now, but I still have a lot of the muscle that I built up 2 years ago. And I didn't have to fight monsters on hourly basis to get that muscle. And what, do wizards in the KH-verse constantly have to practice magic or else lose it completely? I guess I'll have to take that for granted, nothing outside of this excuse for de-levling even suggests that.

 

[h.e.hassanein]

Honestly, I just wouldn't have included a reason for Sora to become weaker, but would let the game play out the same. How much stronger Sora grows in each game isn't even very quantifiable. When you get to the end-game enemies, lots of them are just the same old ones with higher stats, so their and Sora's increase in strength might have just been for the sake of gameplay. Of course that doesn't account for lost skills, but hey, they didn't even bother explaining why Terra and Aqua only had a few skills at the start of BBS, and it wasn't a big deal there.

Thinking about it, I actually don't have a problem with most of the explanations for Sora's de-leveling. But the explanation they gave in KH2 was just awful. "You slept for a year, you're out of practice." Give me a break. Sleeping for a year, especially in a stasis pod that seems to eliminate any need for food or water, should not erase all the progress you've made. My lifestyle is largely sedentary right now, but I still have a lot of the muscle that I built up 2 years ago. And I didn't have to fight monsters on hourly basis to get that muscle. And what, do wizards constantly have to practice magic in the KH-verse or else lose it completely? I guess I'll have to take that for granted, nothing outside of this excuse for de-levling even suggests that.

i completely agree with you. it's like, whatever the way the gameplay is designed is flawed because sora's stats have to keep being reset- don't try to justify it and insult our intelligence.

 

[kuraudoVII]

Honestly, I just wouldn't have included a reason for Sora to become weaker, but would let the game play out the same. How much stronger Sora grows in each game isn't even very quantifiable. When you get to the end-game enemies, lots of them are just the same old ones with higher stats, so their and Sora's increase in strength might have just been for the sake of gameplay. Of course that doesn't account for lost skills, but hey, they didn't even bother explaining why Terra and Aqua only had a few skills at the start of BBS, and it wasn't a big deal there.

Thinking about it, I actually don't have a big problem with most of the explanations for Sora's de-leveling. But the explanation they gave in KH2 was just awful. "You slept for a year, you're out of practice." Give me a break. Sleeping for a year, especially in a stasis pod that seems to eliminate any need for food or water, should not erase all the progress you've made. My lifestyle is largely sedentary right now, but I still have a lot of the muscle that I built up 2 years ago. And I didn't have to fight monsters on hourly basis to get that muscle. And what, do wizards constantly have to practice magic in the KH-verse or else lose it completely? I guess I'll have to take that for granted, nothing outside of this excuse for de-levling even suggests that.

I already mentioned this in another thread, but it always bugged me how they didn't even give explanations for why Terra and Aqua knew very little spells considering that one becomes a Keyblade Master while the other is a Keyblade Master in all but name.

However, I can kind of understand the reason for the beginning of Kingdom Hearts II. Sora's memories were screwed up and reconfigured at Castle Oblivion by Namine under orders of Organization XIII. Sora lost most of the abilities and experience he had upon entering the castle from her tinkering. However, at the end of his portion of Chain of Memories, he opted to forego everything he learned and experienced in that game to have the memories that he had from the first. This meant that his Chain of Memories had to be reconfigured and have him start from scratch thanks to the tenuous process of memory recovery. As a result, its not unsurprising that Sora is brought back to level 1 (or whatever level you were at by the end of Roxas' portion of the game) under those stipulations.

 

[blksabbath74]

And what, do wizards in the KH-verse constantly have to practice magic or else lose it completely? I guess I'll have to take that for granted, nothing outside of this excuse for de-levling even suggests that.

That's how it worked in Dungeons and Dragons...

Magic Users would forget the spells as they cast them and have to study to remember them...

A magic point system was so revolutionary...

 

[Rolands]

However, I can kind of understand the reason for the beginning of Kingdom Hearts II. Sora's memories were screwed up and reconfigured at Castle Oblivion by Namine under orders of Organization XIII. Sora lost most of the abilities and experience he had upon entering the castle from her tinkering. However, at the end of his portion of Chain of Memories, he opted to forego everything he learned and experienced in that game to have the memories that he had from the first. This meant that his Chain of Memories had to be reconfigured and have him start from scratch thanks to the tenuous process of memory recovery. As a result, its not unsurprising that Sora is brought back to level 1 (or whatever level you were at by the end of Roxas' portion of the game) under those stipulations.

But shouldn't he have gotten back all the powers he had prior to chain of memories?

 

[Sign]

But shouldn't he have gotten back all the powers he had prior to chain of memories?

He did sleep for an entire year. Once he woke up, he'd be incredibly rusty and out of shape.

 

[kuraudoVII]

But shouldn't he have gotten back all the powers he had prior to chain of memories?

One would think so, but ultimately he started out at level one due to him having the memories restored, not necessarily the proper way to execute some of his techniques.

He did sleep for an entire year. Once he woke up, he'd be incredibly rusty and out of shape.

I hadn't even really thought about this point, but that would make sense all things considered. He'd at least remember how to swing a sword since he's practiced that long before the first game, but he couldn't quite remember how to execute all of the techniques he learned prior to Castle Oblivion. This may or may not be the in-game explanation for Limit Form in Final Mix now that I think about it (the real reason being that all of us were asking for some of our old techniques back).

 

[TerraTF]

i'm not quite sure i understand what you mean by training ven? sora houses his heart obviously- that's part of why he could wield at first- but his body (and therefore his strength) is all his own.

In the Kingdom Hearts series it seems that the heart is stronger than the body, which is why Terra was not a Master at the end of his exams.

 

[Gram]

how would either of you have preferred the games to begin then? i'm genuinely curious. if the games started where the last one ended we would have sora start at level 99 strength....you'd already be stronger than all the heartless around.
and if the gamemakers tried to make this work by causing the heartless in turn to get stronger it'd be useless to have sora at level 99 at all. from a design point of view, how would you have fixed this?

I dont have a problem with Sora being reset every game, my post didn't even hint at it. I pointed out because they are in-story reasons examples of the series inconsistency of characters power.

i'm not quite sure i understand what you mean by training ven? sora houses his heart obviously- that's part of why he could wield at first- but his body (and therefore his strength) is all his own.

This is incorrect, Ventus never gave anything to Sora.

-- So it's not "Once Sora's story is finished, another hero's story will begin", the hero is always Sora.
Nomura: Yes. One of the concepts behind the KH series is that the main character Sora isn't special, he's just a normal boy. Yes he does have connections with Ventus' heart, among others, but he hasn't inherited anything from them. He's just a normal boy you could find anywhere. I wanted to make Sora a character that the player could take onto themselves and feel that you don't have to be special. But connect to many people and you will realize your secret potential. With BbS I want to make fans excited to see Sora's return. The secret event is a symbol of that, so I hope everyone will get to see it and wait for Sora's next adventure.

Sora can wield because of his own merit and power and Roxas could wield because of sora. The only thing Ven has ever played a part in was forming Roxas' face and granting the duel wielding ability.

Q1: Why do Roxas and Ventus look alike?
A: Because inside Sora, which is Roxas’ body, is Ventus’ heart.

As was shown in the opening to BbS and the ending to Last Episode, Sora and Ventus’ heart are linked (P.646). And so Roxas, who is a part of Sora, was affected by that and looks just like Ventus.

[picture: Little Sora and Ventus’ heart]
Ven: “Can I become one with your heart again?”

When he was born into the world, he linked with Ventus filling his fractured heart. Many years later, when Ventus was on the verge of disappearing after his fight with Vanitas, Sora took him into his own heart.

Q4: Why can Roxas dual-wield?
A: Because he can use both Sora’s and Ventus’ keyblades.

Sora can wield two keyblades at once because he has Ventus’ as well as his own. As Roxas is a part of Sora, he also can use two. In Days Roxas awakened his ability to dual wield after fighting Xion. In KHII once Sora absorbs him, he can also dual-wield.

[picture: Roxas and Riku fighting]

Roxas awakens his ability to dual-wield with his will to not forget Xion who also wielded a keyblade.

Source: BBS Ultimania - 20 Mysteries Solved! - News - Kingdom Hearts Insider

 

[h.e.hassanein]

This is incorrect, Ventus never gave anything to Sora.

Sora can wield because of his own merit and power and Roxas could wield because of sora. The only thing Ven has ever played a part in was forming Roxas' face and granting the duel wielding ability.

I always assumed that because he never performed the initiation ceremony with a keyblade master and was never really supposed to wield the keyblade, the reason he was able to wield was because of the extreme circumstances he was in (riku throwing the world into darkness while sora was trying to save him, leading the keyblade to sense his light and choose him) and because having ven's heart inside him facilitated the whole process. Thank you for this though, I enjoyed reading the article.

 

[Rolands]

I always assumed that because he never performed the initiation ceremony with a keyblade master and was never really supposed to wield the keyblade, the reason he was able to wield was because of the extreme circumstances he was in (riku throwing the world into darkness while sora was trying to save him, leading the keyblade to sense his light and choose him) and because having ven's heart inside him facilitated the whole process. Thank you for this though, I enjoyed reading the article.

The first person who ever wielded a Keyblade had to get it some way besides the Rite of Succession. So I'm fine with Sora being able to wield one just because of the strength of his heart.

 

[h.e.hassanein]

The first person who ever wielded a Keyblade had to get it some way besides the Rite of Succession. So I'm fine with Sora being able to wield one just because of the strength of his heart.

very true. (omg i could be such a corny loser right now by saying there's no need to compare strengths because they're all equally as strong in their hearts :redface: :redface

anyways going back to OP's original question I think Terra and Riku are the strongest of the bunch (though Riku would prob. be stronger by now, and this would only be once Terra is released obvs) just because they have what all the other GoL peeps don't-balance between light and dark. I mean really the whooole story behind KH anyways is how you can't have light without darkness or darkness without light blah blah blah. That would make Riku and possibly Terra the living examples of Kh-verse's ideal.

 

[Rolands]

very true. (omg i could be such a corny loser right now by saying there's no need to compare strengths because they're all equally as strong in their hearts :redface: :redface

anyways going back to OP's original question I think Terra and Riku are the strongest of the bunch (though Riku would prob. be stronger by now, and this would only be once Terra is released obvs) just because they have what all the other GoL peeps don't-balance between light and dark. I mean really the whooole story behind KH anyways is how you can't have light without darkness or darkness without light blah blah blah. That would make Riku and possibly Terra the living examples of Kh-verse's ideal.

Terra's light and darkness aren't in balance though. He's always either trying to stamp out the darkness within him or being overwhelmed by it.

 

[h.e.hassanein]

Terra's light and darkness aren't in balance though. He's always either trying to stamp out the darkness within him or being overwhelmed by it.

i understand, but you'd think after so many years of being stuck with xehanort he'd be able to do so once he's released. it's the least the writers owe him. after all those years you think he'd still be obsessed with the darkness (which got him into this mess) or with the light (which he knows led Eraqus to his own downfall- especially since terra himself had a hand in it)? i can totally see terra giving a corny speech about the importance of balance once he's set free.

 

[Rolands]

i understand, but you'd think after so many years of being stuck with xehanort he'd be able to do so once he's released. it's the least the writers owe him. after all those years you think he'd still be obsessed with the darkness (which got him into this mess) or with the light (which he knows led Eraqus to his own downfall- especially since terra himself had a hand in it)? i can totally see terra giving a corny speech about the importance of balance once he's set free.

Perhaps that could happen. Eventually.

 

[Xehanort-X-blade]

well all i know that TAV confirmed better wielders and stronger then sora and since sora beat riku ASOD and xemnas lol its obvious TAV stronger then sora riku ASOD and xemnas and MX really strong can ASOD move mountain lol he cant