Animals in Christianity

[Ven-Dono]

Homo sapien is merely an example of the categorical tool used in biology. The idea of a "soul" is entirely irrelevant to a physical description/definition.

Then how do we know if monkeys or apes have souls or not? They have the same ancestors as us, to my understanding.

And if soul isn't relevant to a physical description or definition, than at what point in the evolutionary line of man were there souls? Ours?

This whole idea of humans being made in God's Image seems to rely heavily on Genisis, and that every specie of human and animal were made in the same week. And even if they weren't literally days, the definition of "man" has changed a lot in the last 10,000 years or so.

 

[Nyangoro]

Then how do we know if monkeys or apes have souls or not? They have the same ancestors as us, to my understanding.

And if soul isn't relevant to a physical description or definition, than at what point in the evolutionary line of man were there souls? Ours?

This whole idea of humans being made in God's Image seems to rely heavily on Genisis, and that every specie of human and animal were made in the same week. And even if they weren't literally days, the definition of "man" has changed a lot in the last 10,000 years or so.

Well, yeah. Christianity is based on the Bible, as are its presumptions. I can no better offer proof for a "soul" than any other person on the planet (least of all, Evolutionary proof of a soul). Christianity is not a belief system founded in Evolution and does not use the same presumptions.

 

[Random Queen]

Animals have souls.

Plants not so much but I do believe ALL animals have some sort of soul/spirit in them.

 

[Ven-Dono]

Well, yeah. Christianity is based on the Bible, as are its presumptions. I can no better offer proof for a "soul" than any other person on the planet (least of all, Evolutionary proof of a soul). Christianity is not a belief system founded in Evolution and does not use the same presumptions.

Realistically, to how you answered that, I'm surprised humans are so sure they have souls - assuming the bible to be true. Well never mind. I'm not surprised at all. ∞ explained it well.

 

[Nyangoro]

Realistically, to how you answered that, I'm surprised humans are so sure they have souls - assuming the bible to be true. Well never mind. I'm not surprised at all. ∞ explained it well.

Well, aside from a desire to be superior, one of the reasons we humans also assume that we have souls due to our self-awareness (which, as far as we can guess, is something that animals don't have). It's things like that which cause us to think that we have a "soul", since we can determine no real physical/biological difference between us and animals (at least, not one that we think should account for such a difference).

 

[Orion]

Well, aside from a desire to be superior, one of the reasons we humans also assume that we have souls due to our self-awareness (which, as far as we can guess, is something that animals don't have). It's things like that which cause us to think that we have a "soul", since we can determine no real physical/biological difference between us and animals (at least, not one that we think should account for such a difference).

Monkeys, at some stage or another when observed for months, showed signs of behaviour at least semi-consistent with self-awareness. Just saying. Wish I could recall the source.

 

[Nyangoro]

Monkeys, at some stage or another when observed for months, showed signs of behaviour at least semi-consistent with self-awareness. Just saying. Wish I could recall the source.

Don't get me wrong, I am in no way using self-awareness myself to prove the existence of a soul. I'm just saying that it's those kinds of differences that we seem to see that lead us to believe in the existence of a "soul" (because, as I said, we cannot, or have not, found something that we think properly explains the difference that we believe we see).

 

[Tenyas]

Animals can be self aware. Just adjust them to a mirror or show them how individuals can differ and you'll see how they can differentiate by sight, scent, and sound themselves from another being.

Also, I think they have souls [if we're talking about being able to carry on in some way or feel emotions and sympathy etc.]. My Grandmother [a christian] believes they have souls and always has a family pet with her that she occasionally spoils to the point you'd think it was her grandchild. She believes that when her kitty dies and she passes before or afterwards, the cat will be waiting for her up in Heaven.

Now, I'm not a person to believe in human superiority. >.> Set somebody out in the woods, on their own, with no weapons such as guns or knives on their person, and they will most likely die without an education on survival, which most creatures learn on their own and through examples of their parents. I do have to admit a lot of people tend to think of themselves as superior to everything. No. Individually, you aren't. As a mass and communicating race, I think we could be.

 

[Penance]

hey guys

who did noah bring with him on the ark

whoooo~

oh that's right!
yep!

the animals!

good job <3

Well you have to eat.
..so ya.

 

[Forever Atlas]

So I would just like to say:

The first part of that line of thought in Genesis goes on like this -

Genesis 1: 20, 21 - And God went on to say: “Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls and let flying creatures fly over the earth upon the face of the expanse of the heavens.”*And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good.

Genesis 1: 24, 25 - And God went on to say: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” And it came to be so. And God proceeded to make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good.



In addition:


Lev. 24:17,*18: “In case a man strikes any soul [Hebrew, ne′phesh] of mankind fatally, he should be put to death without fail. And the fatal striker of the soul [Hebrew, ne′phesh] of a domestic animal should make compensation for it, soul for soul.”

and

Ecclesiastes 3: 19,20 - 19*For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity.*All are going to one place.


So here's your job. Find out what the soul really is.

 

[Ven-Dono]

Alright. I quit. I'm pretty sure my bible didn't have those verses, and every bible has Genesis. So many interpretations. Christianity is more like a hundred religions, than one altogether. Where one interpretation has a flaw, a new "interpretation" is made to protect the bible.

 

[Nyangoro]

So I would just like to say:

The first part of that line of thought in Genesis goes on like this -

Genesis 1: 20, 21 - And God went on to say: “Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls and let flying creatures fly over the earth upon the face of the expanse of the heavens.”*And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good.

Genesis 1: 24, 25 - And God went on to say: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” And it came to be so. And God proceeded to make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good.

Do you happen to know the actual word used for "soul" in these verses? Because I checked a few other versions, and they simply refer to them as "living creatures". So, is it possible that the translation perceives "soul" as merely being "alive"?

In addition:


Lev. 24:17,*18: “In case a man strikes any soul [Hebrew, ne′phesh] of mankind fatally, he should be put to death without fail. And the fatal striker of the soul [Hebrew, ne′phesh] of a domestic animal should make compensation for it, soul for soul.”

and

Ecclesiastes 3: 19,20 - 19*For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity.*All are going to one place.

In Leviticus, the same thing seems to appear. It appears to be referring simply to two things that are alive. Likewise, in Ecclesiastes, I notice that it specifically says "sons of mankind" (or, in other versions that I checked, "sons of men"). Though this may seem like a minor thing; if I recall correctly (unfortunately, I'm terrible at remembering specific verse references), the Bible has made a distinction between "saved" and "unsaved" (or, "righteous" and "unrighteous") by calling the former "sons of God" and the latter "sons of men".

So here's your job. Find out what the soul really is.

This is true. I just noticed that we call it the "soul", but is "soul" really synonymous with the word "spirit" or "image of God"? Is it that our definitions of such are so broad that the same word can be attributed to different Hebrew words (which wouldn't be the first time)? Honestly, I'm not really sure.

Alright. I quit. I'm pretty sure my bible didn't have those verses, and every bible has Genesis. So many interpretations. Christianity is more like a hundred religions, than one altogether. Where one interpretation has a flaw, a new "interpretation" is made to protect the bible.

Well, that's what happens when you have multiple translations across very different languages and very different cultures.