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Genocide

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Ephemera can't be X&E's Master because we see him help Sora in the Keyblade Graveyard, with no physical appearance changes aka aging.
We also see Eraqus and Xehanort revert to their younger ages after death. So how does that prevent Ephemer from doing it? It's either something Hearts can naturally do, or something they would have learned from him.

'cept Luxu doesn't know this.
But Luxu knowing that MoM already knows the events of things to come, MoM would have worked out a way to prevent his plan from failing.

Yet to be seen.
Doesn't matter actually. I don't think it's Sora. I think MoM is Ven.
 

Ballad of Caius

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Cutscene in the Caribbean. Luxord said it.
Maleficent says that the Book of Prophecies is inside the Box, while Luxord claims there's hope. Either they're both right, or not.

From the Ultimania:
Thanks for the clarification. Hmm... "atonement" means "reparation for a wrong or injury". I wonder what the Master did that would require "reparation"? Also, if you make a Google search of "goat and the devil", you'll come up with "Baphomet", which sounds a lot like what Xehanort was: seeking balance. Other than that, I wonder how relevant the mythos with No Name will still be, seeing as how there's mention of Baphomet being a symbol of the Knights Templar and their Inquisition, which is technically what the MoM did with the KHx characters.

We also see Eraqus and Xehanort revert to their younger ages after death. So how does that prevent Ephemer from doing it? It's either something Hearts can naturally do, or something they would have learned from him.
Scala is an ancient civilization. Ephemera can't be X&E's Master because X&E aren't as ancient as Scala.

But Luxu knowing that MoM already knows the events of things to come, MoM would have worked out a way to prevent his plan from failing.
I'm sure Luxu took a more active role around Xehanort because he knew there was a possibility that MX could somehow undermine the MoM's plan. What if Sora couldn't have defeated Master Xehanort? I doubt it was part of the MoM's plan to have someone like Xehanort rewriting the universe to his liking.
 

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Scala is an ancient civilization.
And it was even more ancient when it was called Daybreak Town. What are you saying? Because, we don't know when Scala ad Caelum fell. Likely in the years after the Heartless became more active. We know that Young Xehanort was 18-20. That puts the scene where Xehanort and Eraqus were playing chess approximately 65 years before Birth by Sleep. There is no official timeline saying when that world fell (or even if it did. But it probably did all things considered). All we know is that the world is ancient and used to be the same worlds that the Union Leaders are in the prequel storyline (of which, there is also no timeline confirmation).

Ephemera can't be X&E's Master because X&E aren't as ancient as Scala.
And I repeat, whatever happened to the Union Leaders scattered them across time. What does Scala ad Caelum have to do with what happened to the Union Leaders after Cross?

I'm sure Luxu took a more active role around Xehanort because he knew there was a possibility that MX could somehow undermine the MoM's plan.
He was involved because he was keeping an eye on the Keyblade. He was fulfilling his original role.

What if Sora couldn't have defeated Master Xehanort? I doubt it was part of the MoM's plan to have someone like Xehanort rewriting the universe to his liking.
MoM's plan was to end the Keyblade War to see the fallout. Xehanort's was to re-enact the Keyblade War.
Sora didn't defeat Xehanort. He had to bring everyone back in a new world line to defy destiny. If MoM is manipulative as people think he is, then he knew that was a possibility and accounted for it. Destiny would have made sure of it as it was already fated to happen because the Master already saw it.
 

Ballad of Caius

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What does Scala ad Caelum have to do with what happened to the Union Leaders after Cross?
Because Scala was founded by the Dandelions. Not everyone ended up in present time KINGDOM HEARTS. Others stayed behind and founded Scala ad Caelum. Ephemera or Brain, whoever founded Scala, did so from zero. They didn't just end up blasted in another time era and decided to conquer an empty city.
 

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Because Scala was founded by the Dandelions.
It is literally the ruins of Daybreak Town. You've seen what 1 master can do - (LoD -> CO), a town full of them would accomplish a similar (but greater in scale) feat.

Not everyone ended up in present time KINGDOM HEARTS.
That's not what I'm saying, even though 3 of them ended up in the Modern Era.

Others stayed behind and founded Scala ad Caelum. Ephemera or Brain, whoever founded Scala, did so from zero.
Literally on the ruins of old Daybreak Town.

They didn't just end up blasted in another time era and decided to conquer an empty city.
We see young Xehanort in Scala. That means it was still erect in the "Historical Era". (I just came up with that, and it's referring to the events after the end of Union Cross - Beginning of BBS. Let's say 100 years.)

Okay, someone stayed behind. I'm saying Brain and the rest of the Dandelions. Going by Secret Report 3, whatever happened to Skuld, Ven, Lauriam and Ephemer was seemingly intentional. They set out to go somewhere, but that traverse was interrupted and then they were blasted through time.

Secret Report 3 said:
Subject (X) was found in the central square shortly after dawn. Female, approximately fifteen years old. After seven days' observation, she spoke her first words, but could not provide a name. Subject exhibits signs of profound amnesia, and displays concern about which world this is. Her words suggest that she departed her home world with others, though she cannot recall the names of her erstwhile companions. All efforts to explore those memories have met with a rejection response
We know that currently they are in the Data World of Daybreak Town. Fact.
They are in the matrix slowly realizing that they are. Fact.
There is a virus within the Dandelions. Fact.
[Theory] They are probably going to try to escape (as anyone within a virtual program would want to after realizing it).
[Theory] That may be what the Virus is going to try to prevent - their escape.
[Theory] Instead of preventing them from going to the real Daybreak Town, they are scattered through time.
[Theory] the virus may not even intentionally be doing it.

Just because Scala was ancient doesn't one of the union leaders couldn't have landed in The Historic Era, close enough to be E/X's master, but far back enough to be gone by the time Scala fell to darkness (if it did, which is likely).

What I'm saying is Brain stayed in the Age of Fairytales. Ephemer was sent to the the Historical Age. Lauriam, Ven and Skuld were sent to the Modern Age.
 
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Twilight Lumiair

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She does? I've forgotten Maleficent as much as the game does so didn't remember this.
Sort of. Maleficent goes on to search for the Book of Prophecies after Re: coded (this is what she's doing in DDD), but then, by the time we get to KH3, she's suddenly looking for the Black Box again. So one could assume the Book itself is in the Box, but this is unlikely considering that the MoM told Luxu as he was giving him the the box, that he wouldn't be having any Book of Prophecies with him on his journey.

If I had to guess, why the context of her goals changed so drastically, it's either a writing contrivance (so she'd have some goal connected to the events of KH3, and thus would be justified enough to be included), or Xigbar told her at some point. I say the latter because, according to Larxene, it was Xigbar that told the Seekers about the box, but he refused to hand it over to them, or even tell them anything about it (probably intending for them to go on a wild goose chase while he had it safely tucked away).
 

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Sort of. Maleficent goes on to search for the Book of Prophecies after Re: coded (this is what she's doing in DDD), but then, by the time we get to KH3, she's suddenly looking for the Black Box again. So one could assume the Book itself is in the Box, but this is unlikely considering that the MoM told Luxu as he was giving him the the box, that he wouldn't be having any Book of Prophecies with him on his journey.
Maleficent wouldn't have that knowledge and probably assumes the book is in the box. We know that that's not the case, but she wouldn't. You're right about that.
 

Ballad of Caius

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Sort of. Maleficent goes on to search for the Book of Prophecies after Re: coded (this is what she's doing in DDD), but then, by the time we get to KH3, she's suddenly looking for the Black Box again. So one could assume the Book itself is in the Box, but this is unlikely considering that the MoM told Luxu as he was giving him the the box, that he wouldn't be having any Book of Prophecies with him on his journey.

If I had to guess, why the context of her goals changed so drastically, it's either a writing contrivance (so she'd have some goal connected to the events of KH3, and thus would be justified enough to be included), or Xigbar told her at some point. I say the latter because, according to Larxene, it was Xigbar that told the Seekers about the box, but he refused to hand it over to them, or even tell them anything about it (probably intending for them to go on a wild goose chase while he had it safely tucked away).
Wonder what she'll do now that she knows that Xigbar played her like a fiddle.
 

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Sort of. Maleficent goes on to search for the Book of Prophecies after Re: coded (this is what she's doing in DDD), but then, by the time we get to KH3, she's suddenly looking for the Black Box again. So one could assume the Book itself is in the Box, but this is unlikely considering that the MoM told Luxu as he was giving him the the box, that he wouldn't be having any Book of Prophecies with him on his journey.
Ah, okay.

If I had to guess, why the context of her goals changed so drastically, it's either a writing contrivance (so she'd have some goal connected to the events of KH3, and thus would be justified enough to be included), or Xigbar told her at some point. I say the latter because, according to Larxene, it was Xigbar that told the Seekers about the box, but he refused to hand it over to them, or even tell them anything about it (probably intending for them to go on a wild goose chase while he had it safely tucked away).
Gotta bring this up, but just what was the point in Xigbar telling them this? The only reason I can come up with is he wants them to know about it, but...why?
 

Twilight Lumiair

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Ah, okay.

Gotta bring this up, but just what was the point in Xigbar telling them this? The only reason I can come up with is he wants them to know about it, but...why?
No idea. It never once came into play during the game, or any of Xehanort's plans. It's all the more confusing when, again, Xigbar told them about the Box, but didn't just.... Give it to them. Like, he absolutely knew exactly where it was, considering he immediately plucked it from it's location in the epilogue of KH3 (probably after his Nobody was destroyed and reformed as a complete person), so if he didn't give them the location, it must've been a conscious choice, right?

The only realistic reason I can think of is that he wanted the Seekers to waste their time searching for it, while at the same time making sure they NEVER find it. But then... wouldn't NOT telling them in the first place have the same affect? Maybe he was just trying to control Xehanort's suspicions? But then why would Xehanort ever know about the thing before Luxu told him? The whole thing just seems completely unnecessary no matter how I look at it. Why was that even a subplot during KH3 in the first place when it seems so functionless and poorly justified??? Seriously, it's even more pointless than the NPoH or Subject X.
 

Ballad of Caius

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it's even more pointless than the NPoH or Subject X.
Although the New Seven Hearts weren't used in KH3's overall plot, they still introduced and developed them, unlike the Box, which I like to think that Nomura introduced that plotline for the sake of letting the audiences know about it. Like you said, it makes zero sense to send everyone on a wild goose chase if, in the end, someone already had the Box.
 

KeybladeLordSora

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Although the New Seven Hearts weren't used in KH3's overall plot, they still introduced and developed them, unlike the Box, which I like to think that Nomura introduced that plotline for the sake of letting the audiences know about it. Like you said, it makes zero sense to send everyone on a wild goose chase if, in the end, someone already had the Box.
There is one reason I could think of.

Xiggy wants to make sure that everyone believes that the box is a complete fluke. So what better way than to have them go on a fruitless search where the only boxes they find don't even match what he's vaguely talking about?

If that specific box can't be found anywhere, it must not exist at all. Pretty sure Larxene was already on the way to believing it doesn't exist in one of the cutscenes.
 

Genocide

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Maleficent goes on to search for the Book of Prophecies after Re: coded
This is why I can't take Maleficent seriously as a villain anymore.

KH1 - Take over all worlds.
KH2 - To not be homeless.
KH Coded - A Book
KH Dededeeeeee - Gotta get that book.
KH3 - A box that she think holds the book.

She is fucking all over the place. Her and Pete are literally Team Rocket.
 

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First of all "ballad of caius" is an awesome name , and final fantasy 13-2 was bomb , irelevantly the process of incantation and a spiritual process of death and life by the way i see it can be linked throughout time itself , chaining together pieces of familiar souls and grouping them into certain events predestined through similtanious timelines creates from depths of dreams realized from the user tapping into former lives or split universal concioussness aware of transitioning from realism into surrealism by connecting all actions that have happened and branching off to affect each linear timeline. which is why i always believed that the true origins of the original 13 organization and humanized characters are tangently coexisting within the paradox created from the world nomura envisioned from FF versus 13 , the paradox itself wiuld have begun when these originals first learned about kingdom hearts and the ability of quantifying a souls purposes and spliting it from they're own hearts creating the worlds we know and love, i feel like this whole storey has been a backtrack into the point of existence . to theorize whether or not the dreams that were woven into prudent realities in which all things are woven and experianced were Realties that have already been lived through to ye point pf death and awakening back into the construct of deja Vu to Experiance the exact moment of realization , onewould only have to lucidly be aware of tapping into theyre own souls capabilities in order to traverse these realms.sooo stoked to see this play out !!!!
 

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it is the theory that every action has an equal and opposite reaction...the box itself could be outerdimensional travel or knowledge of somesort.
 

Ballad of Caius

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There is one reason I could think of.

Xiggy wants to make sure that everyone believes that the box is a complete fluke. So what better way than to have them go on a fruitless search where the only boxes they find don't even match what he's vaguely talking about?

If that specific box can't be found anywhere, it must not exist at all. Pretty sure Larxene was already on the way to believing it doesn't exist in one of the cutscenes.
But why would he want anyone to think that the Box is a fluke? Who does he want manipulate? Who DOESN'T he want to know that the box ISN'T a fluke?

Also, I'd like to think that Pete finding Pandora's Box and leaving it thrown casually like that is probably a teaser for Olympus' story in the next KH games.
 

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In regards to Xigbar’s motive in telling the organization about the box, it may have something to do with Luxord’s role. We know they share a scene in re:mind that might elaborate on this and he is the only member actively looking for it in any world. Plus if Luxord is connected to KHUX then perhaps his connection correlated to this box in some way...
 
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