Re: [BLANK] are not in Kingdom Hearts 3 at all
It still seems to me that you're interpreting these things differently than I am and I'm going to go play through all of FF VII again to try and pick up on what exactly you see that makes you feel this way about him. Any and every time I play it I feel like Cloud isn't anything like how you're describing him but I'm going to pay much closer attention to those details.
That being said, you're still wrong about it "supposed to be Vincent". That quote you provide clearly shows he wanted to have Vincent too, but used Vincent's design on Cloud. Wanting him and changing him are not the same thing. He made Cloud dark and broody because he wanted him to lean towards darkness.
I don't see how or why "for being cool" would be a good excuse for them to supposedly 180 a character's personality like you're implying, but he did have some guilt in FF VII too.
Lastly, I think that there's a plan to bring scene back to 2019 so people might go back to being edgy. It will indeed be a dark time.
Sorry for being late to this !
Cloud never had any memories of Zack. Cloud thought that he was a big top Soldier during the Nibelhiem event, and the only memories he really has is the Nibelhiem Tragedy and the promise he made with Tifa. When Cloud is asked "How did he join Solider? " Cloud has a mental breakdown, because he has no memory of that whatsoever.
Cloud
...SOLDIER, First Class?
He shakes his head.
...SOLDIER? When did I enter SOLDIER?
He clutches his head.
How did I join SOLDIER?
He falls to his knees.
Why... why can't I remember?
I'm... I'm...
Cloud only remembered his promise to Tifa and Nibelhiem. I also don't remember Zack being upset that Tifa got injured and bridal carried her to the side during Nibelhiem lol. Cloud has got some of his memories confused with Zack. That's all.
Still don't believe me ? Aerith. Cloud has no idea who Aerith is. None. Whatsoever. Zero. Zip. If he thought he was Zack, and/or had Zack's memories, he would for sure have memories of Aerith. Instead, Aerith is just a big stranger to him. It's even debatable if Cloud ever even had feelings for Aerith, like Zack did, but that's a whole either different debate, and let's noooooooot gooooooo theeeeere pleeeeeeeeease.
No, he wasn't. He was shy and frustrated because he was a social outcast, and got into fights. Gloomy he wasn't. Cloud was shy, frustrated and jealous of Tifa's friends.
cloud
...I know. I'm the one that was stupid.
I really wanted to play with everyone, but I was never allowed into the group.
Then later... I began to think I was different...
That I was different from those immature kids.
That then... maybe..
cloud
Tifa was in a coma for seven days.
We all thought she wouldn't make it.
If only I could've saved her...
I was so angry... Angry at myself for my weakness.
Ever since then, I felt Tifa blamed me...
I got out of control... I'd get into fights not even caring who it was.
He was frustrated and angry. He wanted to be stronger to protect Tifa, he wanted to be popular, he wanted to be a hero like Sephiroth. Cloud couldn't- so he just went around beating people up, venting out his jealousy and frustration on other people ''better than him '', that's not gloomy. That's more like the victim becoming the bully. Young Cloud needed to watch some Gilette ads.
Again, no he wasn't- he was anxious because he had a dream that he would become a successful First Class Soldier to Tifa, and would protect her, and he failed that promise. He wasn't ''sulky'', he felt like he had failed himself and Tifa. Failing an ambition, a life goal would be a good reason to show some disappointment.
Cloud
Yeah. This is... me.
I... never made it as a member of SOLDIER.
I even left my hometown telling everyone I was going to join, but...
I was so embarrassed. I didn't want to see anyone.
He was embarrassed because he felt like a failure, because he failed to get his goals, make his dream become a reality, and that's understandable. That's not being a sulk, that's just being human.
Again, not true. We see flashbacks of young Cloud all throughout the original game, and Crisis Core exists.
Well, he's more serious about killing Sephiroth......
I'm harsh on Kingdom Hearts Cloud because it was originally supposed to be Vincent, and instead of just removing Vincent completely, they just adsorbed Cloud into Vincent's clothes and persona. Advent Children has a better reason for Cloud's brood because it's a story of a man overcoming guilt and depression. There's also the fact that being broody and edgy, used to be cool- just look at Shadow the Hedgehog, and KH Cloud/ AC Cloud used to be massively popular- so of course, they want him to be that way. The thing is- it's not 2007 anymore.
I mean, does anybody listen to Chemical Romance anymore? Except for maybe a musical nostalgic trip one Saturday night at 2 am?
Lol, no I'm not. This is frustrating because that is exactly what you are doing.
Found this here. Cloud is leaning towards the dark side, he couldn't put Vincent in, so he just copy and pasted Vincent into Cloud, basically. It wasn't just an aesthetic choice.
Also, it's Kingdom Hearts, where Squall, Aerith and Yuffie are friends lol. A Vincent vs Sephiroth fight wouldn't be too far fetched. Epsically since, you know, Vin knew his true Mother.
Question: Also, about Cloud, isn't the left-hand side of his design modelled on FFVII's Vincent?
Nomura: Yes, his left arm is in Vincent's image. This time, in this setting, Cloud is leaning towards the dark side, and I wanted to make him a bit more demon-like. And, since Vincent was exactly that kind of design, I just added it in. Although I would have liked to put Vincent in the game too.
It still seems to me that you're interpreting these things differently than I am and I'm going to go play through all of FF VII again to try and pick up on what exactly you see that makes you feel this way about him. Any and every time I play it I feel like Cloud isn't anything like how you're describing him but I'm going to pay much closer attention to those details.
That being said, you're still wrong about it "supposed to be Vincent". That quote you provide clearly shows he wanted to have Vincent too, but used Vincent's design on Cloud. Wanting him and changing him are not the same thing. He made Cloud dark and broody because he wanted him to lean towards darkness.
I don't see how or why "for being cool" would be a good excuse for them to supposedly 180 a character's personality like you're implying, but he did have some guilt in FF VII too.
Lastly, I think that there's a plan to bring scene back to 2019 so people might go back to being edgy. It will indeed be a dark time.