Re: KINGDOM HEARTS Union ? [Cross] expansion to bring Ventus, Multiplayer, and more!
You bring up some good points
I actually hadn't thought about how what Ven's doing in BbS is actually what Vanitas suggested he do. But that's actually a really important factor that I definitely overlooked!
I should have made it clear in my initial post that that negativity I felt for Ven was moreso on my first playthrough of BbS (sorry for the confusion ^_^'). But since then, I've mellowed out and actually like the character quite a bit. And her certainly has a lot of potential, as a character whose personality is somewhere between Sora and Roxas'.
There are sometimes when he still bothers me, though (like, I recently realized he puts air quotes around the word "ordered" when talking to Aqua. "Were you also 'ordered' to take me home?", almost as if he didn't believe Aqua was actually told to do that by Eraqus!), but even that I can push down and just remember that BbS just had bad writing with the trio, and that Ven's only a child.
Aqua actually references it too when she is in Dwarf Woodlands and has the flashback about Ven awakening, that it might be time for Ventus to actually start a journey and learn.
Nah, it's ok, you know how I like my essay-long lore posts, lol.
Nearly all of the characters in Birth by Sleep have very good potential that was also
hinted at in BBS, but then only scratched on the surface.
The shoddy writing, especially in some parts with dialogue, and setting the wrong priorities with the scenario then did the rest of making BBS and its characters what they are today.
That one comes over to me more as him being sassy/sarcastic, but the Radiant Garden scene is nonethelless one of the more glaringly bad written pieces in BBS as a whole.
At least mentally spoken Ventus strictly
is still a child. He has only four years worth of memories at that point
combined with a very sheltered upbringing in Land of Departure.
Due to him arriving there in a pitiful and weakened state both Aqua and Terra (as stated in the reports) develop a sort of overprotective streak towards him which of course also factors into the "sheltered upbringing" part.
I guess this one doesn't bother me as much. Because I think we'll still get those things in KHIII. But if Nomura wants to develop other relationships for Ven through this, where's the harm? Other people have talked about how other characters have friends outside of their trios in this forum and that's very true. Sora has Donald and Goofy, Riku has Mickey... there's Roxas, Hayner, Pence, and Olette, as other people have said.
There was Sora, Riku Replica, and Namine in Re:Chain of Memories. And then you even have Roxas, Namine, and Axel all having interactions with each other in II (as opposed to Roxas, Axel, and Xion). And even Riku and Namine... Riku and Axel... and some Ansem the Wise, Riku, and Namine stuff (though Ansem could hardly be called friends with them, I know)... Some Sora, Riku, and Lea encounters in DDD (and presumably some Lea and Kairi ones in the future, maybe?), etc.
So having some Ventus, Ephemer, and Skuld being friends with each other doesn't seem that outlandish or damaging to me. But I can understand why others wouldn't agree.
I personally am completely with you on this one, lol, I brought forth these or similar arguments for this issue somewhile earlier in this thread as well.
Sora already has two trios he's part of so why shouldn't Ventus be able to have the same.
I knew this was going to happen from the moment Nomura revealed that X and Unchained X were going to be different. I was reassured for a while, when it became clear that Unchained X would retell all of X's story before jumping into new things (that hopefully X players would also get to play, or look up online), but then the movie happened and...
It ruined everything. And I'm saying that as a massive fan of it. But Back Cover is
so not something you can watch by itself, if you want to get the full story here.
I get why they handled Back Cover as they did, because if it had covered
everything people would wonder what the point of Unchained X being a thing even was. And I understand that with "Season 2" (now Union X), Nomura's trying to tide us over until KHIII (which is nice of him), but now it's just created a huge mess. And I feel sorry for people on the outside trying to figure it all out.
Maybe KH was just never meant to be easy to understand, sadly. But all of this after they
finally got all the games together on one console
This is somewhat off-topic... But I guess this just goes to show I shouldn't be so sure that Nomura could've handled parts of XV any better than Tabata did. I, and many fans, are irritated at Tabata for making it so you couldn't understand XV without also watching Kingsglaive and Brotherhood with it. But then Nomura went and did
this with Chi. So yeah... Who's to say that the structure of XV's narrative would have been handled any better with Nomura?
Blegh, if I have to be completely honest I would've preferred if all this Chi-stuff, if it really
has to be canon, had been moved to the next saga and not also be added on the already huge cluster of stuff that has to be already addressed in KH III by the other games.
I seriously can't remember if there was ever a KH title that answered more questions than it opened new ones, and I am deliberately counting reports here as well.
Don't get me wrong I like Back Cover as well mainly for the really good animation, voice work and to get a little more insight into the Foretellers, but lore/story-wise and in terms of accessibility to more casual fans it is a catastrophe and really nothing more than a giant teaser.
KH
could be easier to understand if all the lore information would be easier to access and digest. I.5 + 2.5 and 2.8 in tandem certainly go a long way to this, especially if one also counts the chronicles and mementos in DDD, but all the Ultimania/interview exclusive stuff and now the Union cross-stuff is still missing.
Heck, the story parts that are exclusive to Browser Chi like i.e. Aced's "fascist"-leaning "solution", Gula's conversation with Skuld, Ava's confrontation with Luxu etc. are practically all totally inaccessible for western casuals except if they go through the youtube-walkthough of story scenes.
Back Cover "covers" nothing from this because it stops at the scene where Ava adresses the Dandelions time-line wise.
Tabata and Nomura aren't so different when it comes to storytelling actually, i.e. when one looks at Final Fantasy Type-0 which was directed by Tabata. Many of the interesting and informative story parts, even whole cutscenes, can be only read/viewed through the big "Rubicus"-book in the library of Akademeia and also only after the secon playthrough.
Ahh... and here I thought the fanbase decided who the trios are and what the trios nicknames are.
Very true. But I do want a in-game explanation as to where Ventus was during Season 1 (if he was there at all) and most importantly, how he got in contact with Madam Ava (they will probably show that though).
They actually do...in fanworks that is. ;P
Heh, I wouldn't really count on that being too detailed, maybe we'll get some small flashbacks but that might be it. Unless Ventus does become not only friendly/a regular companion to Ephemer, Skuld and possibly the unknown other two, but also with the Player avatar, it is not even sure that we as the audience see him very often. Ephemer's screentime in "Season 1" was rather rare and Skuld, while more present, was also only around for a few story quests.
Of course, Nomura said these five are "key characters" so their screentime might increase, but on that we also can only wait and see.
But copies of the Foretellers end at the Keyblade War right? So Ava's copy would be useless now.
So then he would inadvertently unlock the Sleeping Keyhole. He isn't aware it's a Sleeping Keyhole.
I did suspect that. But I really loved the chemistry between the two (in that one scene), so I hope that Ventus still remembers Lea. Might even make a funny conversation between the two. Eitherway, whether they remember each other or not, that team up will be awesome.
Good point, didn't even think about that part. Although, how could the Foretellers draw medals depicting people of the future from their books (and cast illusions of Disney worlds from them which the Keykids visit) if their tomes end at the Keyblade War?
If no one told him from where should he know what a sleeping Keyhole is?
As far as we know Ventus isn't exactly a book worm so the chance that he actually read about it while skimming through Eraqus' (private) library is rather thin I would say.
Wait did they have to go to Destiny Islands again? Is it the same case as when a world is about to fall in Darkness only then you can get to the RoD? When a world is about to fall into the RoS you can only enter the RoS? I should probably start playing DDD HD...
Yes, I saw you post that idea earlier, and while that is possible I doubt it. Because that alone already rises a few questions. Did Ventus just have a whole RoS experience in just a few days (a week at most) and then wake up with no memories of it? Could be plausible because he was unstable at the time. But if this is what happens to Ventus after he passes out for a few days (due to Heart failures), what would happen to Ventus when he is passed out for over a decade with a complete shattered Heart?
Well I thought we were talking about it in another way, like: You enter RoS, go to your time and place you want and thus "exist" (but how do we define existing?) there. Then go back to the RoL or RoD. And then time travel to that time and place in the RoL or RoD because you did exist in a RoS version. And the moment someone unlocks the Keyhole, you access point to that time and place will be gone because your RoS version stopped existing. I thought we were talking about it in that way.
Sora and Riku always left the world after they unlocked it? Like I said, DDD is weird. I just don't...
No Name lead Xehanort to him because they both have a connection to the Chi era, knowingly or unknowingly to Xehanort?
It is the tutorial of DDD. Yen Sid explains it actually pretty detailed in DDD itself. In order for Riku and Sora to reach the Realm of Sleep, so I'll just quote him directly:
Yen Sid said:
If we are ever to strike down Xehanort, we need the individuals King Mickey spoke of in his letter. We must lead them out of sorrow and
slumber, and back to our world. To do so, seven Sleeping Keyholes must be
found and unlocked, and a great power retrieved. As you know, every world
is walled off from the next, preventing travel between them. In the past,
you could bridge these gaps because the walls were broken, or because you
could open special Lanes with your Keyblades. But your new goals, the
"Sleeping Keyholes," are harder to reach. You'll recall, in your first
journey, that you brought many worlds back from the darkness--but some
never returned completely. They still sleep, cut off from all outside
channels. Not even the Heartless can enter.
...
One dream is connected to another, which means we must choose in
which "Sleeping World" you will begin. I will return you to the Destiny
Islands just before they were swallowed by the darkness and plunged into
sleep. Once dreams take you, you must let them guide you to the Sleeping
Worlds. As there are seven pure lights, there are seven "Sleeping Keyholes."
Unlocking these will both grant you new powers, and free the worlds from
their wakelessness. Complete this task, and return here safely, and I will
name you both...true masters.
How much time passes in the RoL (or rather how long Ven sleeps) literally doesn't matter when it comes to
dreaming as in a dream you can do things over several months in just one night alone. There isn't a limit or a ratio as to how much time "passes" because in the dream, real time doesn't pass at all.
Also, do you remember
every dream you have?
Not to forget that Ventus is/was literally still in a bad shape during those times where he experiences those comas.
You're mixing up time travel and the RoS. In order to time travel to a certain location during a certain time a version of you must
already exist in
that exact location beforehand. There also exist no separate "RoS"-versions of worlds. When a world is in the RoS it doesn't exist in the RoL , the RoD or the Realm between and vice versa, the only known exception so far being The World that Never Was, which can exist in both the RoS and the Realm between at the same time, this exception however has been explicitly pointed out by Nomura himself. It isn't yet clear if other In-between worlds have the same ability.
RoL-worlds definitely don't have this ability, they can be only either in the RoS, the RoD or the RoL.
Certainly also a possibility, that Keyblade is rather creepy and weird to begin with so why shouldn't it also have the ability to "sense" connections to the era it originally comes from?
I'm really confused by Ventus appearing in this game, does anyone have an official explanation for his appearance?
As of now there are no official explanations, only theories and interpretations. How Ventus can be there and why is as much a mystery as the current whereabouts of Terra after Xehanort returned as old geezer in DDD.
Spoiler
