As Roxas, being Sora's Nobody can surely Naminé can too? If so, what was the point of Xion, as a back up Roxas? Why not just have Naminé do it?
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As for what Xion was, she wasn't a back-up of Roxas. She is a Replica, much like the Riku fought in Castle Oblivion during Chain of Memories. Her name unscrambled (minus the x) is No. i (referencing how i designates an imaginary number in math and how the members of Org. XIII are numbered), which just shows her Replica nature. The Organization's original plan was to use Sora and his Keyblade to collect hearts for Kingdom Hearts. When that fell through and they happened upon Roxas, they decided to use him to that end. At this point, Xion was already created from the data collected from Sora during CoM, which is why she can use the Keyblade.
As Roxas began to develop and grow, Xion was siphoning his strength to become strong herself. This culminated in the Organization switching their lead heart-gatherer from Roxas to Xion, as Roxas was growing weak. When Xion was destroyed, they were going to use Roxas once again. But he ended up in Twilight_Town.exe and then KH2 begins.
Correct me if I'm wrong on anything here.
Don't forget that she also got some of Riku's memories too, which may have aided in her overall strength.
Welll they said that in the novels, and since the scenario writer for the game wrote those novels, then you could assume so. But at the same time, the novels aren't canon, so unless the Snarl of Memories has been explained in a game or interview, I would say that's not a fact yet.
Who is namine, actually? I have never wondered where she comes from... enlighten me!
It was also in a big cutscene in Days. The memories Xion viewed during her nightmare were clearly Riku's, the whole conversation with Zexion are memories that can only belong to Riku.
Also, where was it confirmed that the novels aren't canon?
As far as I know the usual policy is that official supplementary material is within canon as long as it doesn't outright contradict primary sources like the games or the main series creator actually outright says it doesn't belong into the continuity.
Maybe it will be explained when the scene with Kairi at the mansion is shown.I'm hoping that they'll explain just WHAT she is in either 3D or 3...
rofl haha xD niceTwilight_Town.exe
Does it really matter if it was "one-time" or more often? Fact is Xion gained access to Riku's memories and some of them flowed into Sora due to her ability.Yeah, but nowhere in the game does it say whether it was a one-time thing, or if it had lasting effects. You can assume it does, because there is evidence even in Coded that Sora has got Riku memories inside him, but until we know for sure we can't talk like it's 100% true.
That's what canon means, the original source texts. This is because canon doesn't (or shouldn't in a well written series) change, it's only built upon. The fact that things in interviews and novels can contradict the source material means that even when they don't, or haven't yet, they need to be taken with a grain of salt, aka they exist on a sort of second-tier and even third-tier canon.
What you describe as 'the usual policy' is something each gamer, or each community, decides for themselves. I say this as someone who has dedicated a lot of time and effort into translating those interviews and novels, so don't think I don't consider them important.
Besides, do you really expect Nomura to come out and say 'lol guys the stuff in the novels is often wrong and also sometimes I change my mind after interviews'? People make money from supplementary material, that's why they pump it out in the first place. He's not going to try and make them sound unimportant.
considering Namine can only alter the memories of Sora (and those connected to him, blah), it's obvious that there is a deep connection between those two. In fact, Ansem speculates that Namine had a direct contact with Sora's heart when born. I wouldn't be too surprised if she was able to summon Sora's keyblade and use it.
in fact, before birth by sleep was released, this was my favourite theory as to why Kairi was able to hold the Destiny Embrace considering she merged with Namine only moments earlier.
i can see her maybe being able to at least hold one but no full on summon and kickass with like roxas.
namine, whatever she may truly be, was born when kairi's heart left sora and went back to kairi so like Neptun said she has a strong connection to sora's heart (her memory powers) however she isnt sora's nobody and to be honest we dont even know if she is a nobody.
however her 'other' (kairi) can, at the very most, use a keyblade. so if roxas, who could wield sora's, not only summon sora's and on top of that borrow vens for his duel wielding i dont see why namine couldnt at least hold one without it vanishing, tho cause kairi doesnt have one of her own and seeing as how she isnt sora's nobody she cant use sora's.
rofl haha xD nice
Does it really matter if it was "one-time" or more often? Fact is Xion gained access to Riku's memories and some of them flowed into Sora due to her ability.
You gave the evidence for that from Coded yourself. If Xion sucked out memories more than once or just this one time is on that regard rather irrelevant since the "damage" is already done, Sora has memories of Riku inside himself due to outside meddling, and I highly doubt it will just be overlooked in the future.
the argument, if i remember correctly, is that the memories of Riku we're shown in Coded when the journal is repaired is hinting that Riku's memories are in Sora, right? but that's not what coded says about it. well, not really. in the end, it says that the journal is a "collection of everything we felt together--it's our hearts." this would, obviously, extend to Riku as well, which is why his own memories are there, as well as Mickey's, Sora's, etc. that's how i took it. so it isnt that Sora has Riku's memories, it's that the journal has just a whole wack of shit that shouldnt be possible going on, lol. because it's KH.
here's the specific line: “Gosh, our time together brought back a flood of memories. The day I set out on my first adventure. The day I made a new friend. It made me realize that the journal isn’t just a list of events. It’s a collection of everything we felt together—it’s our hearts.” said by mickey
the Pluto thing is definitely a Mickey memory or whatever, or its related to Mickey, anyway, imo. it's tough in that Coded decides to drop the whole "fix a world, get a cool unseen moment from KH1" after doing it like... twice. but there is absolutely NOTHING to suggest that scene has anything to do with Riku. and given Mickey's comment at the end of the game, about being in Traverse Town the same day Sora was, and how we know he got into the Dark Realm via a naturally occuring COD there, and how Pluto disappears in the beginning of the game only to show at the end with a letter from Mickey, it's clear that scene is showing the moment Mickey went into the Dark Realm, imo.
Aren't the novels doing just that? Expanding on the already known material instead of contradicting it?
Star Wars has an entire official team dedicated to fit written works into the continuity with approval from George Lucas
I still think there needs to be made a difference between certain "head-canons" for some parts of the fandom who apparently can't accept some facts of the series or that some old explanations turned out to be not entirely correct, the wider overall series-canon (including interviews, the Ultimanias above all and partly the novels) and of course the narrow "purist"-canon who only look at the games themselves.
It's been a while I saw the Days-Walktrough, but was Roxas even involved in it? I thought it were only Xion and Riku."one-time" = snarl of memories was just a bonk up involving Xion, Roxas and Riku
"lasting effects" = the bonk up travelled to Sora and will impact on events in the future
That second one is a very well thought out and well supported theory, but not a 'fact' yet.
I don't get what you are trying to argue. I believe in this theory. I was the one who published the novel evidence for it. I've followed the threads explaining the Coded links. What are you arguing here? There is evidence for our theory therefore everyone can go home, folks?
In fact, there are even counterarguments to what those memories in Coded meant. This is what Audo [reverse-rebirth @ tumblr] had to say to me about it:
I don't personally think this necessarily means there aren't Riku memories in Sora, btw.
But you know what? It's still not canon yet.
Nope. They expand, but only on their own tier. The information they present isn't considered when making new titles, which means they can end up contradicting first-tier canon when new games come out. Axel and Saix's history in the KH2 novels, off the top of my head. And ‘Somewhere in Time’ was completely destroyed by Days, start to finish. You can go look for them yourself, if you like.
And if you know enough to say that, you should also know that it is a lot more complicated than that. This summary, for example, includes lots of quotes that show even Leland Chee acknowledges that the 'film-only continuity' only answers to itself.
This doesn't help your argument, btw. You were trying to argue the opposite; that someone has to confirm the novels as not canon. Kind of the way you're talking about the Riku-memory-theory. Something is canon until directly stated otherwise? You're free to develop your own personal canon in that way, as long as you realise if you try to impose it on other people you'll end up in conversations like this.
First of all, that is very similar to what I said: that there are different tiers of canon, and that the games are first-tier.
Second of all, when you get down to it, it is very very difficult to separate the headcanon of an individual/fan community with the 'true' canon, because your true canon could very well look like headcanon to someone else. While we're all looking at the same game, we're all interpreting it with our different minds and attitudes and beliefs etc etc. Unless the facts they are using are wrong, I don't think there's a wrong way to interpret something.
Probably not, Roxas was Sora's nobody and could use the Keyblade before he turned into a heartless
Namine was created before Kairi got a Keyblade, and Kairir PHYSICALLY recieved hers from Riku not her heart
Secret Ansem's Report 9As far as we know Naminé was born from Kairi's heart using Sora's body and soul as an intermediary, there was no mention of Sora's heart being involved in Naminé's birth.
Sora's heart gave birth to Roxas, not to Naminé.
Lol, if that would be true Naminé would be the third being to be able to either use or copy Sora's keyblade.