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An Outline of the Basic Priniciples of Islam (Islam Q&A Thread)



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Nelo Angelo

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Oh for goodness sake! Myyy brooother! lol don't pick out verses of the internet and say see look theres the proof. Come on man, that just cardinal sin number one! Of course your gonna find verse picked out and presented as "its a violent relgion"
You have to read them in their context and entirety to understand it. I can even give you the whole context of each and help you understand, but that would take a very long time obviously. Islam teaches that you are to fight in the cause of Alla to stop oppression. The battles in Islam were all in self defence because they were being attacked for their beliefs and torture. When it says fight, it means stand up for yourself, defend yourself, for peace to prevail you must stand up and strive for peace. Anyone who goes and out fights for no reason or to cause mischief in the land and kills an innocnet soul, is going against Islam!

I would love to actually answer all those verses you highlighted but that would just bring me round to one thing. To tell you to read for yourself. Are you willing to do that?
 

Virus

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Oh for goodness sake! Myyy brooother! lol don't pick out verses of the internet and say see look theres the proof. Come on man, that just cardinal sin number one! Of course your gonna find verse picked out and presented as "its a violent relgion"
You have to read them in their context and entirety to understand it. I can even give you the whole context of each and help you understand, but that would take a very long time obviously. Islam teaches that you are to fight in the cause of Alla to stop oppression. The battles in Islam were all in self defence because they were being attacked for their beliefs and torture. When it says fight, it means stand up for yourself, defend yourself, for peace to prevail you must stand up and strive for peace. Anyone who goes and out fights for no reason or to cause mischief in the land and kills an innocnet soul, is going against Islam!

I would love to actually answer all those verses you highlighted but that would just bring me round to one thing. To tell you to read for yourself. Are you willing to do that?

And I was thinking that as well. Anyone can pick a passage from the Bible and look at it out of context and it may seem violent. So perhaps in context they were peaceful. I can understand fighting for Allah in self defense, I can understand defending yourself in the name of Islam.

What I cannot fathom is the verses that talk about "slaying" nonbelievers. Would you care to explain that for me?

And to be honest, I haven't even read the Bible in its entirety, and I've had a number of years to do so. I genuinely want you to correct me where I'm wrong. But at the same time, I'd like you to accept where I'm right. Maybe I'm completely wrong. If so, show me.
 

Nelo Angelo

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No problem brother, I will show you inshaAllah how those verses in context show a completely different story to the ones which you are told by those who want to play mischief.

The first one you quoted, lets read the context:

Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
190. Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
191. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
192. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
193. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

What does the verse before the one that was quoted say? FIGHT THOSE WHO FIGHT YOU, in other words, defend yourself! Then it says DO NOT TRANSGRESS LIMITS FOR ALLAH LOVES NOT TRANSGRESSORS, this means don't go over the limits, don't overdo it, kill only those who have wronged you and are attacking you and not the innocent who have nothing to do with it. Understood?

Then it says, slay them where you find them and turn them out from where they turned you out. This is relating to the war between the pagans of Makakh and believers of Makkah, where the Pagans drove out the believers. Then it says, tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Think about this carefully, killing an innocent person is bad enough, but to continuously and slowly torture them and put them in such grief and hardships just because you do not agree with them or like what they do is even worse. So it says drive them out and fight them. Its funny how the insertion is added to only Muslims in the quote you posted, where it is not evident in the Arabic. Cuz its in relation to any person of any faith. They are not to be oppressed. Then the verse continues to give the exception of fighting in the Sacred Mosque but that is also given an exception to if they attack you there first to kill you. Then you can.
Read verse 192 and 193, funny how that isn't quoted, cz everyone will understand very clearly that its all in self defence, to protect yourself, and even after fighting the ones who have wronged you and your families by torturing and killing them, the believers are told to cease when the oppressing people cease. In other words be merciful.

Another verse that was quoted, lets see the context:
Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
Context:

55. Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
56. "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
57. "As to those who believe and work righteousness, Allah will pay them (in full) their reward; but Allah loveth not those who do wrong."
58. "This is what we rehearse unto thee of the Signs and the Message of Wisdom."

See what the context is? It is talking about the time of Jesus! (pbuh). How would you ever get to know that by just reading verse 56. Verse 55 is talking about the time when Jesus (pbuh) was being persecuted and was to be crucified. Allah says, he would raise him onto Himself, so that he would not have to go through that (according to Islam and the QUr'an, a likeness of Jesus (pbuh) was put in his place and he was not crucified). Then the verse talks about the true followers of Jesus who followed his teachings and not that of the church which was derived three centures after Jesus's (pbuh) time in the Council of Nicea lead by Constantine (do some research into this and you will see what I'm talking about) those followers would be far superior to those who blashpheme (this is evident today) Then the verse talks about those same people, those who blaspheme, after clear signs they continue to say atrocious things, it is they who will be punished in this life and the hereafter. Then read the next verse! those who do good will have reward! Why Allah will punish the wrong doers is then mentioned, because they are not loved by Him, they are rebellious. And finally the next verse says these are signs and messages of Wisdom. This is important, all these verses and context and reasons, are not without Wisdom! You have to dwell and think about carefully as to why.

The next one:

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".
Context:

149. O ye who believe! If ye obey the Unbelievers, they will drive you back on your heels, and ye will turn back (from Faith) to your own loss.
150. Nay, Allah is your protector, and He is the best of helpers.
151. Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!

See how it makes more sense when you read the verses before it? Why will God cast terror into their hearts? Because they have the motives, the intentions of taking the believers away from the Truth, away from the good they have guided to. Allah is reassuring them and giving them comfort as well as the facts. He is the Protecter and He is the best of Helpers, not those who want to harm you. Allah will cause them to see the wrongs they have done, this is talking about the Day of Judgement, when they shall be thrown into the hellfire for commiting the biggest sin, Shirk, which is associating parters with God.
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Next Verse:
Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."
This is such a common one lol, Context? start from the very first verse in that chapter:

1.
A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-
2. Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.
3. And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.
4. (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.
5. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
6. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
7. How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.
8. How (can there be such a league), seeing that if they get an advantage over you, they respect not in you the ties either of kinship or of covenant? With (fair words from) their mouths they entice you, but their hearts are averse from you; and most of them are rebellious and wicked.


Now do you come to understand? I will explain, the very first verse is talking about a contract, a contract that was made between the Messenger and the Pagans, to come to a mutual agreement. That no harm or oppression was to be caused to anyone of either party. The second verse says for four months leave them be, and that let them go about doing their falsehood, they cannot frustrate Allah. But there were some who rejected and did not fulfill the contracts, and so on the day of pilgrimage an open declaration was said by the Prophet, that those who dissolve the treaty they are warned about a greivous penalty. They are given a warning for breaking the cotnract here. The next verse says to stay in a mutual agreement with those who uphold it. They are being righteous. The warning is to those who are breaking the alliance. It is then the verse you quoted comes into the picture. Those groups of people, first made the cotnract, then broke the contract, after a warning they still didn't take heed and continued to oppress and cause mischeif and kill. It is only then the command is given to attack! When those four months mentioned earlier (as well as during pilgrimage), then slay them. Remember the context! It is reffering to those who broke the treaty and not those who fulfilled it, as they have been righteous does it not say? Those are the Pagans that are to attacked. Then continue reading. Verse 6 says what? If any one of them asks for Asylum give it to him! Subhanallah. Wait, not just give it to them, but you escort them to a place of security! Can you believe this? This is your enemy, in open battle, wanting to brutally kill you, but then he realises how foolish he has been and asks for mercy. The Muslim is told to not just show him mercy, but take him to a safe place! In the middle of battle, risk your self to escort him to saftey! This is Islam my brother. The next two verses show the wisdom as to why they are told to do that:
7. How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.
8. How (can there be such a league), seeing that if they get an advantage over you, they respect not in you the ties either of kinship or of covenant? With (fair words from) their mouths they entice you, but their hearts are averse from you; and most of them are rebellious and wicked.

It is a an example to set by the muslims so that they can have true righteous people alongside them.

The rest of the quotes you posted are all from the same chapter that I jst clarified verse 5 from, and if you just read the whole of chapter 9 you will get the proper context and understanding of them. Simply beacause that chapter was revealed after a peace treaty between the muslims and polytheists of Makkah ws broken as I just explained.

So you see brother, reading the context helps you to see that it refers to fighting to stop opression and for peace to prevail. If anything the verses that speak about fighting are immediatley followed by verses of peace and mercy. Cuz this is what Islam is all about.
 
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Virus

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Look I will give you an example of how those verse you pointed out have been take out of context to show it in the wrong light

The very first one, here is context:


[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
190. Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
191. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
192. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
193. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

Another you one quoted:



Context:


55. Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
56. "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
57. "As to those who believe and work righteousness, Allah will pay them (in full) their reward; but Allah loveth not those who do wrong."
58. "This is what we rehearse unto thee of the Signs and the Message of Wisdom."



Another one:
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]


Context:

149. O ye who believe! If ye obey the Unbelievers, they will drive you back on your heels, and ye will turn back (from Faith) to your own loss.
150. Nay, Allah is your protector, and He is the best of helpers.
151. Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!
152. Allah did indeed fulfil His promise to you when ye with His permission Were about to annihilate your enemy,-until ye flinched and fell to disputing about the order, and disobeyed it after He brought you in sight (of the booty) which ye covet. Among you are some that hanker after this world and some that desire the Hereafter. Then did He divert you from your foes in order to test you but He forgave you: For Allah is full of grace to those who believe.
153. Behold! ye were climbing up the high ground, without even casting a side glance at any one, and the Messenger in your rear was calling you back. There did Allah give you one distress after another by way of requital, to teach you not to grieve for (the booty) that had escaped you and for (the ill) that had befallen you. For Allah is well aware of all that ye do.
154. After (the excitement) of the distress, He sent down calm on a band of you overcome with slumber, while another band was stirred to anxiety by their own feelings, Moved by wrong suspicions of Allah.suspicions due to ignorance. They said: "What affair is this of ours?" Say thou: "Indeed, this affair is wholly Allah.s." They hide in their minds what they dare not reveal to thee. They say (to themselves): "If we had had anything to do with this affair, We should not have been in the slaughter here." Say: "Even if you had remained in your homes, those for whom death was decreed would certainly have gone forth to the place of their death"; but (all this was) that Allah might test what is in your breasts and purge what is in your hearts. For Allah knoweth well the secrets of your hearts.
155. Those of you who turned back on the day the two hosts Met,-it was Satan who caused them to fail, because of some (evil) they had done. But Allah Has blotted out (their fault): For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Forbearing.
156. O ye who believe! Be not like the Unbelievers, who say of their brethren, when they are travelling through the Earth or engaged in fighting: "If they had stayed with us, they would not have died, or been slain." This that Allah may make it a cause of sighs and regrets in their hearts. It is Allah that gives Life and Death, and Allah sees well all that ye do.
157. And if ye are slain, or die, in the way of Allah, forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all they could amass.
158. And if ye die, or are slain, Lo! it is unto Allah that ye are brought together.
159. It is part of the Mercy of Allah that thou dost deal gently with them Wert thou severe or harsh-hearted, they would have broken away from about thee: so pass over (Their faults), and ask for ((Allah)'s) forgiveness for them; and consult them in affairs (of moment). Then, when thou hast Taken a decision put thy trust in Allah. For Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him).



[FONT=&quot] Another one: [/FONT]


Context:
1. A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-
2. Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.
3. And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.
4. (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.
5. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
6. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
7. How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.
8. How (can there be such a league), seeing that if they get an advantage over you, they respect not in you the ties either of kinship or of covenant? With (fair words from) their mouths they entice you, but their hearts are averse from you; and most of them are rebellious and wicked.

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

Now then if the religion is as peaceful as these passages claim, why are extremists able to quote the Qu'ran as they do violent actions?

I see how pulling random passages may make it seem as if the religion is violent, but it doesn't make sense to me how a religion of peace has been known to:

A. Spread religion by the sword (As I look for support for this, I find passages claiming that is what scholars had believed until recently. Perhaps I am wrong)
B. Produce extremists that (although other religions also produce extremists) put the lives of others and themselves in danger because of how they interpreted their holy book
C. Partake in actions as seen in the short clip, Fitna.

Please, explain to me the passages in the following video and the actions that are performed in it.

LiveLeak.com - Fitna the Movie (New Version 4-4-2008)

Again I mean no harm by this, I simply wish to understand, Amamallah.
 

Solar

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To make it simple: they're idiots, they're evil, they're brainwashed, they're one man's freedom fighters, etc. But most importantly: they've got an agenda. When you have an agenda, you want to justify things to yourself. And wouldn't you want to believe God is on your side? Even though Islam makes it crystal clear the extremists acts deem them grave sinners in the eyes of God, they just interpret to meet their needs, cherry pick some passages out of context, and ignore the verses that condemn as well as forbid their actions.

Another factor to be noted is ignorance: the Catholic Church used to get Christians to do horrible things in the name of religion, but before the Gutenberg Bible and printing press, these Christians didn't even know what was in the Bible but bought what corrupt religious leaders fed them.
 

Virus

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To make it simple: they're idiots, they're evil, they're brainwashed, they're one man's freedom fighters, etc. But most importantly: they've got an agenda. When you have an agenda, you want to justify things to yourself. And wouldn't you want to believe God is on your side? Even though Islam makes it crystal clear the extremists acts deem them grave sinners in the eyes of God, they just interpret to meet their needs, cherry pick some passages out of context, and ignore the verses that condemn as well as forbid their actions.

Another factor to be noted is ignorance: the Catholic Church used to get Christians to do horrible things in the name of religion, but before the Gutenberg Bible and printing press, these Christians didn't even know what was in the Bible but bought what corrupt religious leaders fed them.

To this day Catholicism continues to be corrupt, but it's not like it was all those years ago. You're certainly right about that.

And yes, perhaps they are brainwashed. And I know the media makes it seem like it is much worse than it is and that everyone in the Middle East is a terrorist.

May I ask both you and Nelo a question? Out of my own curiosity.

Would you consider yourselves to be devout Muslims? Following all the Pillars? Prayer five times a day? Weekly Mosque visits? "Orthodox" as people would call it?

Or are you Muslim by name but don't really act on it? Occasionally attend the Mosque, sometimes pray, etc? "Conservative" in today's language?
 

Nelo Angelo

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Now then if the religion is as peaceful as these passages claim, why are extremists able to quote the Qu'ran as they do violent actions?

I see how pulling random passages may make it seem as if the religion is violent, but it doesn't make sense to me how a religion of peace has been known to:

A. Spread religion by the sword (As I look for support for this, I find passages claiming that is what scholars had believed until recently. Perhaps I am wrong)
B. Produce extremists that (although other religions also produce extremists) put the lives of others and themselves in danger because of how they interpreted their holy book
C. Partake in actions as seen in the short clip, Fitna.

Please, explain to me the passages in the following video and the actions that are performed in it.

LiveLeak.com - Fitna the Movie (New Version 4-4-2008)

Again I mean no harm by this, I simply wish to understand, Amamallah.

My brother gave a very erm, straight to the point answer to your previous question lol. Bt he's right, thats pretty much it. They are not following the doctrines of Islam, and this is what I'm emphasising. We must read the doctrine itself and not believe what we hear or are told. We would be foolish to do that. There have been millions of reverts to Islam after they themselves being told the information you have highlighted and then looking into the religion themselves only to find what the were told was bogus. No where did it preach those messages but the opposite.

As for it being spread by the sword, that really is an absurd claim. Think about it, one man against the whole of Arabia. They were the worst of people committing such terrible deeds, all the super powers of that time passed them by, didn't give them a second glance such as the Romans and Persians, simply because they knew these people would be a liability to them. They had certain customs and traditions and lifestyle were atrocious. But one man stood up and questioned them, he challenged them. I'm asking, do you think it wise that he would stand up and fight with a sword against these people? They would've slaughtered him alive. But he did it. He changed those people into the best examples for humankind. Could he have done that with a sword? Furthermore, forcefully making someone accept Islam is against the religion! Its pointless as Islam means to freely submit yourself to the One who is the Creator.

I agree there were battles. But battles have only been fought in self defence and standing up for what you believe in, and to stop tumult and oppression. Read about the battles of Badr, of Uhud, and many others during the time of the Prophet and his Companions to understand why they happened. Read the Bible, Gospel of Matthew and you will see the same situation with Jesus and his Discipled when they were ready with swords to fight the Jews in the Garden of Gethsamane. They fought for the same reason, self defence.
If you say it was spread by wars let me show you and ask you about the facts of a few things. Indonesia, this is atm (India almost taking over) the country with the most number of Muslims. Can you tell me, from books of History, what war took place against the Indonesians to spread Islam over there? In Africa, there is a huge Muslim populous, what war took place over there between Muslims and the African Nations? In Spain there were was a Muslim rule for over 800 years with over half the population as Muslims. And now there is hardly 10%, maybe even less than that. There was no spreading of the religion by the sword. It was simply by the Companions of the Prophet (pbuh) spreading the message far and wide as was the command of the Prophet (pbuh) to his followers. This is the command of Allah in the Qur'an to spread the message.
“Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.“(Qur’an 16:125)

This is the way they did it, not by a sword. And this is the way it is done now.

As for the video, that is not worth even looking at, as for one, how are we to know that it is true or false and second from our discussion today surely you must have realised that the picture you were shown and taught to believe is not the same as what the Qur'an, Sunnah teaches. To get the true picture of Islam go to these sources, and do what that video that you posted in your first post said, read the Qur'an for yourself.

And to answer your second question. Alhamdulillah, for many many years now I have been living my life best I can as Muslim in full definition of the word, obtaining peace through submission to the will of God. (and I won't name us Orthodox, we are to be purely Muslim in every sense of the word) And yes I do follow the five pillars and keep them in mind and implement when I can, especially my Salah. Never will I miss my prayer (inshaAllah).
The most important thing that I love about the deen and try to strive to do always, is to be a good human being. The best of those in faith, are those who are best in manners as the Prophet (pbuh) said.

But I wanna emphasise, just because I do so and another Muslim might not, it does not make me any better than them. That should not be the thought at all. I am human and still error and do stupid things, but I love the deen and wish to teach the deen. And I firmly believe in pratice what you preach. But jst because all followers of a faith may not follow that faiths teachings, of course doesn't mean the religion is at fault. It is the person. May Allah guide us and help us all to be the best of human beings.

I wanna ask you though. Did you watch that link we posted refuting what you posted? Did you read the verses I gave in context to the quoets you posted, and importantly did you read the main post of this thread to understand Islam? If you have done so, Alhamdulillah its good you did cz it shows you truly want clarification and wnat to learn, if not, then I highly suggest you do, otherwise you won't really ever get the answers to those doubts in your mind. Hope I have been able to help you understand better brother.
 
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Virus

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My brother gave a very erm, straight to the point answer to your previous question. Bt yh thats pretty much it. They are not following the doctrines of Islam, and this is what I'm emphasising. We must read the doctrine itself and not believe what we hear or are told. We would be foolish to do that. There have been millions of reverts to Islam after they themselves being told the information you have highlighted and then looking into the religion themselves only to find what the were told was bogus. No where did it preach those messages but the opposite.

And to answer your second question. Alhamdulillah, for many many years now I have been living my life best I can as Muslim in full definition of the word, obtaining peace through submission to the will of God. (and I won't name us Orthodox, we are to be purely Muslim in every sense of the word) And yes I do follow the five pillars and keep them in mind and implement when I can, especially my Salah. Never will I miss my prayer (inshaAllah).
The most important thing that I love about the deen and try to strive to do always, is to be a good human being. The best of those in faith, are those who are best in manners as the Prophet (pbuh) said.

But I wanna emphasise, just because I do so and another Muslim might not, it does not make me any better than them. That should not be the thought at all. I am human and still error and do stupid things, but I love the deen and wish to teach the deen. And I firmly believe in pratice what you preach. But jst because all followers of a faith may not follow that faiths teachings, of course doesn't mean the religion is at fault. It is the person. May Allah guide us and help us all to be the best of human beings.

I wanna ask you though. DId you watch that link we posted refuting what you posted? Did you read the verses I gave in context to the quoets you posetd, and importantly did you read the main post of this thread to understand Islam? If you have done so, good on you, if not, then I highly suggest you do, otherwise you won't really ever get the answers to those doubts in your mind brother.

Yes, I watched the video that was posted. Yes, I read the verses that refuted what I thought. No, I still have not read the opening post.

Clearly I have been taught to believe things that weren't 100% true and I thank you for taking the time to disillusion me. While you were very convincing, to be completely honest I am still a bit hesitant to completely submit myself into believing all you have said without further investigation. My parents grew up in a country where they were persecuted for not being Muslims. They developed a hatred toward Islam, not individual Muslims, but the religion. As I grew up in the States, they would tell me stories and such of the corruption of Islam. At a young age, I called them racist. But as I got older I saw that I couldn't really blame them for thinking this way, as they lived it. So, please forgive me if I came off rude. I may have had my own opinions on the matter without any factual evidence.
 

Solar

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This is actually quite complex. Though people say it's a cop-out, I will always say I'm simply Muslim. Sunni in the sense that I try to follow the sunnat of the Prophet (peace be upon him) but I don't get involved in the politics of a lot our community. If having a deep, passionate love for God and Muhammed (peace be upon him), respect for saints, and following mystic traditions makes me a Sufi, then I am a Sufi. If trying to follow strictly the Qu'ran and Sunnah, ignoring and speaking out against innovation makes me a Salafi, then I am a Salafi. If loving Hazrat Ali (ra) and the Prophet's (pbuh) family makes me a Shia, so be it. If my opinions one something, the way I practice minor details and etc make me a Hanafi, so be it.

And only Allah knows the level of my devotion, knowledge, love, etc. I have been called conservative, reformist, skeptical, even an atheist, maybe agnostic, certainly some blasphemy accusations here and there as well as religious. An even orthodox. So I think I'll settle with just Muslim. But Nelo basically covered everything, mashallah.
 

Nelo Angelo

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That is perfectly alright my brother. I can understand that completely and thats why I remaiend patient and tried to enlighten you best I could. There is only so much I can teach and say of course, it is you yourself who has to strive to get the answers. I highly suggest you do read the opening post as a starting point and any further questions let me know. I will try my best to answer, with references to look into furhter.

And I'm tellin ya bro, don't look at the followers of the faith based on the news and media. They will never show you a true practicing Muslim, but pick those black sheeps and portray him as an exemplary Muslim. We can't fault a car if the person driving it cannot drive at all! The Qur'an is only a third of the size of the Bible btw and not so difficult to read. If you can get your hands on a copy. (The one via my link is a very good one with other very good information such as the Prophets life, science and Islam, Presevation and Litereaty challenge of the QUr'an (a thread I made here ) and some FAQ's. Only through reading and researching will you be able to clear your doubts. May Allah guide you InshaAllah.

Plus forgive me if I made any fault also.
 

Nelo Angelo

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Sorry for the double post. But thought I'd post up a link to a website that explains to those who may wish to know more about what the Islamic month of Ramadan is and why it is so important to Muslims, and why it is they fast during this month.

Rahma (Mercy)
 
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I actually do have a couple of questions that I'd love for any or several of you to answer:

1. Can you explain the origin and the significance of the star and crescent symbol that's associated with Islam? Do Muslims hold it in similar esteem to what Christians hold the cross?

2. What do you think is the absolute most important/basic/essential verse of the Quran? Alternatively, if you had to describe your entire faith to a person who had never even heard of Islam using only a single verse from the Quran, what would you choose?
 

Nelo Angelo

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I actually do have a couple of questions that I'd love for any or several of you to answer:

1. Can you explain the origin and the significance of the star and crescent symbol that's associated with Islam? Do Muslims hold it in similar esteem to what Christians hold the cross?

Oh yeeeah, the star and cresent moon. Lol I haven’t seen or heard about that for a long time. I think that just speaks volumes really. It carries no significance whatsoever. Its not held in esteem or high regard like the cross at all, as no Muslim home or person dons such a thing in the form of statues, or necklaces. There’s no basis from Qur’an and Sunnah to the Prophet (pbuh), the Companions and the followers at that time ever having associated themselves with such a symbol.
For the origins of it, I did some research and this article by a brother on the online Islamic journal, called the Crescent funnily enough, basically explains where this came about and how it doesn’t carry any significance but it is just widely used as a symbol to distinguish the religion of Islam.
The Untold Story of Crescent moon and stars as symbols, logos or tattoos » Crescent


2. What do you think is the absolute most important/basic/essential verse of the Quran? Alternatively, if you had to describe your entire faith to a person who had never even heard of Islam using only a single verse from the Quran, what would you choose?

My first post pretty much answered that brother.

For the first part of your question, the most important and essential teaching of the Qur’an is Tawheed. The Oneness of God. That there is no deity worthy of worship, except the One True God, and in the Arabic tongue He is known as Allah. This is the crucial difference of Islam to other religions that claim to be the religion of God. The Qur’an and Sunnah are so clear and so firm on this aspect that its embedded into the hearts of its reader, there is Only one God, no partners, no Sons, no Daughters, no Trinity or forms of God in any creation be it human, plant or animal. And there is one verse (amongst many) that establishes oh so very clearly this Oneness of God in such beauty.

“Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists. Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter . And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, the Most Great.
[This Verse 2:255 is called Ayat-ul-Kursi. Verse of the Throne]”

Chapter 112, just 4 verse long, is antoher great emphasis on this aspect of Tawheed.
"Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him."


To describe the entire faith in a single verse is obviously not possible. This way of life encompasses every single aspect of our lives. The conglomeration of the Qur’an and the Prophetic teachings found in the compilations of the Hadiith, is what gives motion to the entire faith. But to describe the fundamentals of the faith, that is the five pillars of Islam and the six pillars of Imaan, my very first post did that whereby I quoted the Hadiith of the Prophet from the Hadiith compilation by Imam Muslim. You can check back on that. You have to remember, the Qur’an was revealed in stages in a period of 23 years, bringing the pagans and non believers back to the path of the original way of life. Then slowly it established the fundamentals and key practices of Islam, embedding it into the people physically, verbally, mentally and spiritually. It is not a book revealed merely for the benefit of students of history or sociology so that a chapter or single verse can sum it all up in its entirety. Verses were revealed by stages teaching the way of life until it was finally complete. Only after this can a summation of it be made which was told to us by the Prophet (pbuh) in various hadiith’s. The one I posted in the very first post is personally the best one that sums up the fundamentals of this way of life Islam.
 

Jesus

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I actually do have a couple of questions that I'd love for any or several of you to answer:

1. Can you explain the origin and the significance of the star and crescent symbol that's associated with Islam? Do Muslims hold it in similar esteem to what Christians hold the cross?

2. What do you think is the absolute most important/basic/essential verse of the Quran? Alternatively, if you had to describe your entire faith to a person who had never even heard of Islam using only a single verse from the Quran, what would you choose?

I'm far from being sheikh or something but I do go to an Islamic school where we discuss these things regularly so I'll try my best to answer your questions.

1. iirc, the Star and crescent symbol represents three things: The Holy Quran, Islam as a religion, or its identity and lastly as a sign of Muslim Brotherhood. I suppose that it could be similar to the Christian cross as it represents the main part of our faith, the Quran the same way way the Cross represents the crucifixion of Jesus, which is supposedly (I say supposedly because I don't know a whole lot about Christianity) a major part of the Christian faith.

EDIT: I've read Nelo Angelo's post and I've changed my view on the part about how we regard the Star and Crescent. But Nelo, the Sheikh at my masjid has associated the The symbol with the three things I've written above?

2. Now I find this question extremely hard because Islam covers such a range of topics and I personally am having a hard time trying to pin in all in one Ayah (verse) of the Quran. So if I had to choose it would be either Ayat Al- Kursi or the Shahadah.

Ayat Al-Kursi:
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Allah! There is no God but He,
the Living, the Self-subsisting, the Eternal.
No slumber can seize Him, nor sleep.
All things in heaven and earth are His.
Who could intercede in His presence without His permission?
He knows what appears in front of and behind His creatures.
Nor can they encompass any knowledge of Him except what he wills.
His throne extends over the heavens and the earth,
and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them,
for He is the Highest and Most Exalted.

(Al Baqara: 255) or (2:225)

The Shahada
There is no God but God and Muhammad is the messenger of God.

I got both these excerpts off of Wikipedia for the translations, because even though I'm pretty confident in my translation skills, I don't want to mess something up.
I hope I've answered your questions.
 
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Nelo Angelo

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Just messaged you about that brother Guard, but I'll clarify for others. That interpretation may be one thats used now to signify why it is a symbol of Islam. Bt I jst haven't come across it in any of my readings from Qur'an and Hadiith. And from a historical perspective, the symbol did go back to a time before the Prophet. So it wasn't exclusively for Islam although now it has been made so. Its not an important symbol, like the cross is to the Christians or the Star of David to the Jews, or the Om symbol to the Hindus, or the wheel to the Budhists. All it is now is a symbol constructed by the followers to distinguish the religion of Islam, as those symbols I just mentioned were cretead by those followers to distinguish the corresponding faiths.
 
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Thanks to both of you for the incredibly informative, detailed answers -- and moreover, thanks for doing a Q&A thread. I love opportunities like this.
 

Jesus

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No problem, and feel free to use this thread or message any of us if you ever have any questions about it because there seem to be a lot of misconceptions of muslims today.
 

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Personally, I feel the Star and Crescent is a pagan symbol which we shouldn't used. An Arabic number 1 would suffice.

1 God, 1 species, 1 ummah, etc. It's a symbol of unity.
 

Solar

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Bump to discuss and explain some misconceptions about child marriages in Islam and Lady Aisha (ra)



 

SpikyMooDy

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Thanks a lot Nelo for dedicating your time for this thread. I am a Muslim myself.

I have never read the Qu'ran but from what I've heard, it condones and even encourages extremist behavior. I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.
You heard wrong. Islam doesn't encourage extremist behavior. Read it and then judge.
Do you know there is a campaign in the Middle East that is nothing short of ethnic cleansing? All over the Middle East, Christian churches are being bombed. Granted it's not as grand scale as the Holocaust or the Armenian Genocide, it's still ethnic cleansing. Hundreds have died and there are videos, news articles, and news broadcasts to prove it. (CNN did a segment last December)

Yes I know there is a difference between extremists and non-extremists. I understand that not all Muslims are, as these videos would have you believe, "evil". People are people, religious faiths are religious faiths. There are extremist Christians. There are some pretty messed up sects of Christianity. Anyone from any religion can be an extremist.

You answered yourself. It's not the religion's fault if people misunderstand it.

Do you know that, in Egypt, everyone was given a Social Security number? If you're Muslim it ends in a 1, if not it ends in a 2. There's a lot of tension in that part of the world. Even if everyone is equal de jure, de facto that's not the case. Even something as negligible as SSN proves that.
I'm not sure of your point here but I think the numbers are useful in the situation, you know? In case of something happened, it can narrow down the chances.
 
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