What's your main problem with KH and hope that it'll be improved in 3?

[Luminary]

That’s just simply not the case.

Not ever since KH2.



KH2 is in fact the majority of the fandom’s favourite game, me included.

I’d rather have abridged versions of classic Disney movie stories over the generic, mundane original story in KH that’s filled to the brim with anime cliches/tropes, convoluted time-travel elements that render the player’s achievements null and void, and a bloated cast that has literally no development whatsoever.



Could have easily done that without the need for Pinocchio.



Notice how none of that has anything to do with any of the story/mythos of Neverland.



No it wouldn’t because Remy in Twilight Town is completely irrelevant and inconsequential to the plot, as oppose to Riku/Org 13 visiting Disney Worlds.

Every single KH game has more Disney worlds than original worlds with the exception of .2 if you count the RoD as one original world despite the Disney areas.

Majority does not equal everyone. A majority elects a president. It doesn’t mean that President is everyone’s favorite.

As I said before, your wants seem like you would prefer tie-in games that are basically the movie in video game form. Or you could just watch the movies themselves. KH just isn’t the story for you if you hate what it offers so much. Besides, it isn’t like Disney movies don’t have their own tropes and cliches. You also have to realize this is a video originally geared towards 12 year olds. It isn’t intended to be some master piece of literature. It’s ok for a story to have cliches and tropes if they’re presented in a way that’s enjoyable. Clearly, people generally enjoy them in KH.

The KH cast has plenty of development. Riku, for example, goes from falling to darkness and turning on his best friend to slowly becoming a full-fledged hero and the first Keyblade Master in 12 years. Aqua has followed the opposite path and gone from being one of the purest lights to succumbing to the darkness in what has essentially been a battle with depression. Axel goes from not really caring about anyone other than himself to becoming a person who will do whatever it takes to bring back the people he cares about. Plus, most of the characters introduced post-KH2 are currently only in the middle of the story arcs. Xion, Ven, and Terra, for example, cannot grow as characters until they are brought back from their incapacitation.

Pinnochio was relevant because Riku wanted to give his heart to Kairi because he just considered Pinoke nothing more than a puppet.

Neverland mixes original plot with the conclusion of the film. There are also other references to the mythos like Riku stealing Sora’s shadow and bringing it to life and Sora learning to fly. They also only had about 13 minutes of cutscenes and were much more limited in what they could fit in the game, which is why we don’t get to see the island proper until later in the series.

Pulling one character from a list of examples to try to disprove my point isn’t effective. KH3 isn’t out yet, so who knows how relevant he will or won’t be? The little dude could take control of Xemnas and surprise attack Xehanort for all we know. Lol. The basis of his presence in Twilight Town is that Scrooge opened the restaurant. Scrooge could be opening multiple business ventures across the original worlds that will involve other Disney characters. Even if it isn’t part of the main plot, it makes the original worlds feel more inclusive to Disney characters rather than keeping them stuck in their own worlds.

 

[Hentai Babe]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Turn based games are dying even though I like KH there is more action packed games out there.

 

[KingMickeyMouse]

Every single KH game has more Disney worlds than original worlds with the exception of .2 if you count the RoD as one original world despite the Disney areas.

And most of them are still irrelevant to the overall plot.

Crazy how that happens...

Majority does not equal everyone. A majority elects a president. It doesn’t mean that President is everyone’s favorite.

Cool?

I mean I’m pretty sure you knew what I meant. Arguing semantics is a pretty weak scapegoat.

As I said before,

Yeah you tend to do that a lot.

your wants seem like you would prefer tie-in games that are basically the movie in video game form.

There are no Action RPG Disney Movie Games, but ok.

KH just isn’t the story for you if you hate what it offers so much. Besides, it isn’t like Disney movies don’t have their own tropes and cliches.

They really don’t. Not in comparison to KH, lol.

You also have to realize this is a video originally geared towards 12 year olds.

It’s becoming more and more obvious with every subsequent entry, thank you.

It isn’t intended to be some master piece of literature.

Why not?

Most of the Disney films are masterpieces. Hell, they literally take inspiration from classic works of literature. And where does Nomura draw his inspiration from? Freaking Naruto.

It’s ok for a story to have cliches and tropes if they’re presented in a way that’s enjoyable. Clearly, people generally enjoy them in KH.

Uhh...no? They don’t?

Kingdom Hearts is universally known for its abysmal convoluted story, actually.

The KH cast has plenty of development. Riku, for example, goes from falling to darkness and turning on his best friend to slowly becoming a full-fledged hero and the first Keyblade Master in 12 years.

That’s not development.

’Darkness’ and ‘lightness’ are abstract concepts created solely for KH’s dumbass generic anime lore. They’re not devices that facilitate characterisation, for that you would need tangible dilemmas — of which Riku has none by your own admission.

Aqua has followed the opposite path and gone from being one of the purest lights to succumbing to the darkness in what has essentially been a battle with depression.

None of that means anything. Aqua “following the opposite path” without any defined motivation or impetus isn’t exactly character development. It’s chest-piece storytelling; character goes here, character does this etc. None of it matters because we are given no reason to care or identify with the characters.

And I’m pretty sure the depression thing is just your headcanon.

Axel goes from not really caring about anyone other than himself to becoming a person who will do whatever it takes to bring back the people he cares about.

Why?

What precipitated his change in character?

Plus, most of the characters introduced post-KH2 are currently only in the middle of the story arcs. Xion, Ven, and Terra, for example, cannot grow as characters until they are brought back from their incapacitation.

You literally just admitted they have no character. Lol.

“Being in the middle of their story arcs” has nothing to do with character development. They can have development whenever the writers grow more than 2 brain cells.

Pinnochio was relevant because Riku wanted to give his heart to Kairi because he just considered Pinoke nothing more than a puppet.

That literally made no sense.

Where was the correlation exactly? Pinocchio needed to be there to...raise...puppet awareness... for Riku?

Neverland mixes original plot with the conclusion of the film. There are also other references to the mythos like Riku stealing Sora’s shadow and bringing it to life and Sora learning to fly.

None of which have any story or character implications/functionality.

They also only had about 13 minutes of cutscenes and were much more limited in what they could fit in the game, which is why we don’t get to see the island proper until later in the series.

Great. More excuses.

They managed to make Donald and Goofy likeable in 10 mins...I’m pretty sure they could have been a bit more conservative with those 13 mins of Neverland cutscenes.

Pulling one character from a list of examples to try to disprove my point isn’t effective.

It is.

Because it disproved it.

Remy’s relevance to the overall game is of much less significance than literally any original KH character.

KH3 isn’t out yet, so who knows how relevant he will or won’t be? The little dude could take control of Xemnas and surprise attack Xehanort for all we know. Lol.

I mean...

That’d certainly be more entertaining than seeing who can swing their swords harder between 6 generic walking, talking anime cliches and 13 hot topic edgelords.

The basis of his presence in Twilight Town is that Scrooge opened the restaurant. Scrooge could be opening multiple business ventures across the original worlds that will involve other Disney characters. Even if it isn’t part of the main plot, it makes the original worlds feel more inclusive to Disney characters rather than keeping them stuck in their own worlds.

It’s certainly a step in the right direction, I agree with that.

 

[Hentai Babe]

You clearly have too much time on your hands lel...

 

[Hentai Babe]

That doesn’t mean it’s good. Just like all “recycling” isn’t good either, lel.

 

[gosoxtim]

(please don't double post)
i just the hope world has other stuff not just main or side stuff like easter egss

 

[Luminary]

And most of them are still irrelevant to the overall plot.

Crazy how that happens...



Cool?

I mean I’m pretty sure you knew what I meant. Arguing semantics is a pretty weak scapegoat.



Yeah you tend to do that a lot.



There are no Action RPG Disney Movie Games, but ok.



They really don’t. Not in comparison to KH, lol.



It’s becoming more and more obvious with every subsequent entry, thank you.



Why not?

Most of the Disney films are masterpieces. Hell, they literally take inspiration from classic works of literature. And where does Nomura draw his inspiration from? Freaking Naruto.



Uhh...no? They don’t?

Kingdom Hearts is universally known for its abysmal convoluted story, actually.



That’s not development.

’Darkness’ and ‘lightness’ are abstract concepts created solely for KH’s dumbass generic anime lore. They’re not devices that facilitate characterisation, for that you would need tangible dilemmas — of which Riku has none by your own admission.



None of that means anything. Aqua “following the opposite path” without any defined motivation or impetus isn’t exactly character development. It’s chest-piece storytelling; character goes here, character does this etc. None of it matters because we are given no reason to care or identify with the characters.

And I’m pretty sure the depression thing is just your headcanon.



Why?

What precipitated his change in character?



You literally just admitted they have no character. Lol.

“Being in the middle of their story arcs” has nothing to do with character development. They can have development whenever the writers grow more than 2 brain cells.



That literally made no sense.

Where was the correlation exactly? Pinocchio needed to be there to...raise...puppet awareness... for Riku?



None of which have any story or character implications/functionality.



Great. More excuses.

They managed to make Donald and Goofy likeable in 10 mins...I’m pretty sure they could have been a bit more conservative with those 13 mins of Neverland cutscenes.



It is.

Because it disproved it.

Remy’s relevance to the overall game is of much less significance than literally any original KH character.



I mean...

That’d certainly be more entertaining than seeing who can swing their swords harder between 6 generic walking, talking anime cliches and 13 hot topic edgelords.



It’s certainly a step in the right direction, I agree with that.

Sorry, I’ve really done my best to discuss these things with you, but this is going nowhere and the running around circles with you is exhausting. Now that you’ve gone back to making condescending comments like, “yeah, you tend to do that a lot.” this discussion just isn’t worth the time or effort. This is not a constructive discussion at all at this point.

I hope one day you give the original story of KH a second chance and can appreciate it as the nostalgic, sentimental mixture of Disney/JRPG magic about the power of friendship overcoming the darkness that it is to me and so many others despite its flaws. But as I said before, if not, I hope you still find enjoyment out of whatever elements of the game you do like. Have a nice day and may your heart be your guiding key.

 

[KingMickeyMouse]

I hope one day you give the original story of KH a second chance and can appreciate it as the nostalgic, sentimental mixture of Disney/JRPG magic about the power of friendship overcoming the darkness that it is to me and so many others despite its flaws. But as I said before, if not, I hope you still find enjoyment out of whatever elements of the game you do like. Have a nice day and may your heart be your guiding key.

I appreciate that.

I apologise if any of it came off as condescending, I was only pointing out what I thought was the cause of the redundancy you’ve pointed out. Discussions can’t really go anywhere if we have to resort to repeating the same points over and over again.

 

[Ðari]

If they don't do time travel as a plot angle again, that would make the game "worlds" better lmao.

Besides that, just...give us a better camera and camera controls overall this time or at least adjust the Ai that are offscreen to not go compton on our asses when they're out of our line of sight -_-. ffs.

 

[Laurel]

My biggest grip probably is the dialogue. It has always been cheesy and can be hard to take seriously, I think it's mainly due to how convoluted the plot has become since kh1's dialogue was probably the most tolerable with its simpler plot. (Cheesy yes, but it's so fun to quote) You'd think after 16 years , dialogue would've been improved but I think it's gotten worse over the years. I'm a bit nervous about KH3 since the dialogue in the trailers are still on the cheesy side, though, listening to the dialogue during the Toy Story gameplay gives me some hope.

 

[k99y77]

Every single original KH character (with the exception of Sora) is generic, boring, cliche anime trash and the writers keep shoving them in our faces even though they have complete access to the Disney vault; filled some of the most iconic and loveable characters ever created — and they opted to make them filler instead. Guess their weaboo tendencies just keep getting the better of their creative and artistic integrity...

100% This! Hopefully the series goes back to being less anime in KH4.

 

[Demonolith]

Sora's creepy need to bare his crotch at anyone or anything needs to stop - we live in a different and more socially acceptable age now...

 

[Chuman]

Sora's creepy need to bare his crotch at anyone or anything needs to stop - we live in a different and more socially acceptable age now...

That is not what he’s doing at all. That’s just stretching/relaxing, the kind of body language that says “chill”. I do it all the time lol, pretty sure no one had an issue.

 

[Squall Strife]

My main problem with KHS is the camera. For example, in KH2 it had a landscape view but detail was lost when the camera was zoomed out. Also the redundancy of some KH worlds although this isn't a serious problem as they will have way more detail in the worlds than in the previous games. Other than that I'm not finding any problem per se with it. Maybe have other characters to play as would be nice.

 

[mytomxxx]

My main problem with KHS is the camera. For example, in KH2 it had a landscape view but detail was lost when the camera was zoomed out. Also the redundancy of some KH worlds although this isn't a serious problem as they will have way more detail in the worlds than in the previous games. Other than that I'm not finding any problem per se with it. Maybe have other characters to play as would be nice.

There will be another playable character in this game.

 

[Smithee]

Xehanort, and his Black Hole Sue effects on the plot.

I hope KH3 finally wipes the slate clean.

 

[Manidesu]

Excessive use of default faces
lack of dark things happening to group
but also a resolution to these dark things
someone needs to die, but no one from the original trio
NPCs please. its incredibly hard to take things seriously without NPCs.
Sora, please learn from your mistakes in 3D hun. I prefer the spunky, OG sora from 1 and 2.
SAVING. please do not force me to fight three consecutive boss fights without allowing me to save.
NO MORE A. If you nort one more cinnamon roll I will hunt you down.

 

[Launchpad]

I'd love to never see another instance of a character saying "look over there!", transitioning to a camera angle of an empty landscape where a portal or character THEN appears.

KH2 and DDD hurt me with this.