Was 3D a plothole?



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Chuman

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last night i was playing 2.5 in the timeless river and i noticed it was time travel, with the darkness invading disney castle due to pete taking the cornerstone, however, in 3D what are the rules of time travel? i'm going to quote a fellow khi member here:

1. You must discard your body
2. You can only go one direction, either back in time or forward
3. You cannot change events that are destined to happen
4. Once you return to your own time period, you and anyone you took with you lose all the memories of your journies.
5. You must have a version of yourself in the time period you wish to go to.
sora & co. didn't follow a single rule when they traveled back (well, donald goofy and pete followed rule #5). is it a different kind of time-travel special to disney castle and the cornerstone's power or is it a big contradiction to dream drop distance?
 

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Re: was 3D a plothole?

What happens at Disney Castle and to the classic Disney Characters should not be held in the same vein as the rules of many of the series. Disney Castle clearly has a strange timeline, as it has a highly stylized past, characters who don't age, and various versions of the characters spread across different worlds (Country of the Musketeers, for example, which was only referred to in 3D as "a problem")

Something strange is going on with that world, but it may never be explained. It should also be noted that the time travel is probably specific to Disney Castle, AND that Merlin has power over transcending time and always has.
 

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Re: was 3D a plothole?

i figured as much. there are some strange occurrences in that castle (lingering will portal anyone?), but with it being such a pivotal world i thought it was odd that it clashed against such an important plot point.
 

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Re: was 3D a plothole?

Hey, whenever you have a big glowing orb in your castle's basement anything can happen. Do you have doors that lead to the past, portals to living suits of armor or plot holes to explain? The orb probably did it.

However the plot hole I don't get is how Maleficent is able to reach Disney Castle in DDD if the Cornerstone is supposed to prevent her from reaching there.
 

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Re: was 3D a plothole?

Personally I think plotclog is a better way to describe 3D.
 

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Re: was 3D a plothole?

I just attributed Timeless River to the doors. The two doors leading to it's past were obviously special. They also lead specifically to Disney Castles past like how Xehanort's time travel specifically only lets him travel his own timeline.

However the plot hole I don't get is how Maleficent is able to reach Disney Castle in DDD if the Cornerstone is supposed to prevent her from reaching there.
This has been driving me nuts since I played DDD.
 

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Re: was 3D a plothole?

However the plot hole I don't get is how Maleficent is able to reach Disney Castle in DDD if the Cornerstone is supposed to prevent her from reaching there.
what? i must have missed that scene. this both deeply confuses me and asserts my point.
Personally I think plotclog is a better way to describe 3D.
lets start a petition when 3D HD rolls around to fix the story bugs.
 

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Re: was 3D a plothole?

However the plot hole I don't get is how Maleficent is able to reach Disney Castle in DDD if the Cornerstone is supposed to prevent her from reaching there.
Yen Sid hints to this:
Yen Sid: The timing is too perfect, too calculated. Maleficent must sense
a change in the forces of darkness. A change...like Xehanort.

It's possible that Xehanort's return has shifted the power of Darkness so much that the Cornerstone of Light is slowly becoming useless.
 

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Re: was 3D a plothole?

Yen Sid hints to this:
Yen Sid: The timing is too perfect, too calculated. Maleficent must sense
a change in the forces of darkness. A change...like Xehanort.

It's possible that Xehanort's return has shifted the power of Darkness so much that the Cornerstone of Light is slowly becoming useless.
That's right now that I think about it. So that also means if everybody is off trying to stop Xehanort and leave the castle unguarded, Maleficent can waltz right in and take over uncontested when they're most vulnerable. Cause I don't see the broomsticks defending the castle from a vengeful witch.
 

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Re: was 3D a plothole?

While the Cornerstone kept Maleficent and the Heartless out, it didn't keep Pete out when he snuck in during coded. While it keeps the Heartless out indefinitely, it doesn't seem to keep out all wielders of darkness out indefinitely. Maybe it's just regarding how much darkness a person has in their heart? Pete's a jackass and a villain, but he has spent a large portion of his life as a decent guy, and his heart is strong enough to command the Heartless and he's never shown any signs of succumbing to the darkness.

As for the Disney Castle time travel, I assume it's just a different, hassle-free form of time travel. They were only going back to one place and time temporarily, whereas Xehanort and crew were jumping throughout various times in history to gather the Seekers of Darkness.

The Musketeer world is definitely problematic regarding the Disney Castle timeline. And as said, the fact these characters haven't aged, especially Huey, Dewey and Louie.
 
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Chuman

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Re: was 3D a plothole?

While the Cornerstone kept Maleficent and the Heartless out, it didn't keep Pete out when he snuck in during coded. While it keeps the Heartless out indefinitely, it doesn't seem to keep out all wielders of darkness out indefinitely. Maybe it's just regarding how much darkness a person has in their heart? Pete's a jackass and a villain, but he has spent a large portion of his life as a decent guy, and his heart is strong enough to command the Heartless and he's never shown any signs of succumbing to the darkness.

As for the Disney Castle time travel, I assume it's just a different, hassle-free form of time travel. They were only going back to one place and time temporarily, whereas Xehanort and crew were jumping throughout various times in history to gather the Seekers of Darkness.

The Musketeer world is definitely problematic regarding the Disney Castle timeline. And as said, the fact these characters haven't aged, especially Huey, Dewey and Louie.
i believe "the musketeer world" being asleep was just a missing piece of the timeline and now that it has awoken, everyone's memories of it should return (as the case with sora in II).
 

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Re: was 3D a plothole?

Country of the Musketeers is a separate world and not a part of Disney Town. This is explained when Sora visits the world.

As for the Disney Town residents not aging, it is explained in DDD that different worlds have a different time axis. This would explain the Disney characters lack of aging as time there may move much slower than in other worlds.
 

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Re: was 3D a plothole?

Country of the Musketeers is a separate world and not a part of Disney Town. This is explained when Sora visits the world.

As for the Disney Town residents not aging, it is explained in DDD that different worlds have a different time axis. This would explain the Disney characters lack of aging as time there may move much slower than in other worlds.
Here's the thing: when would it have happened? Is Minnie from that world originally? Why was Pete there? How did he get there? How and when did Mickey travel there? He didn't begin traveling until around Birth by Sleep, gummi ships weren't invented until after then, but Donald and goofy weren't aware Pete had been released from his prison until KH2, so WHEN DID IT HAPPEN
 

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Re: was 3D a plothole?

Here's the thing: when would it have happened? Is Minnie from that world originally? Why was Pete there? How did he get there? How and when did Mickey travel there? He didn't begin traveling until around Birth by Sleep, gummi ships weren't invented until after then, but Donald and goofy weren't aware Pete had been released from his prison until KH2, so WHEN DID IT HAPPEN
Maybe Disney Town and Country of the Musketeers are the same world and just different countries. Isn't it odd that you don't see Minnie in Timeless River but she's already a princess in Country of the Musketeers? Maybe Mickey, Donald, Goofy and Pete at some point moved to this other country ruled by Minnie's parents. After what happened in DDD, Mickey and Minnie got married and everyone moved back to Disney Town to rule and live in the castle. Could explain why characters like Horace, Clara Cluck, etc. aren't seen in the CotM but in TR and DT and the Beagle Boys are seen in CotM but not TR and DT.
 

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Re: was 3D a plothole?

Mickey recognises that Sora is from another world and says he is the same. I think when he said World he meant World and not country. The sleeping worlds are worlds that were consumed by the Heartless but were sent to the realm of sleep instead of the realm of darkness. Heartless should not be able to invade any part of that world thanks to the Cornerstone of Light.

As for how they got there was it ever stated anywhere that Gummi ships weren't invented till after BBS because Mickey had to have some form of travel before then as otherwise he would never have got to train under Yensid. I know he had star shard in that game but that was given to him by Yensid. If it wasn't through Gummi ships then only answer I can think of is teleportation magic. We know Merlin can transport himself and others between worlds so perhaps they enlisted his help? At any rate it seems that Mickey and the others have been aware of the existence of other worlds since long before BBS.
 

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Scrooge McDuck traveled to different worlds and he knew Ventus was from another world. Also he and Mickey were planning to make Gummi ship highways. So I guess it is easy to say that traveling between different worlds using Gummi ships was possible and maybe popular before BBS.
 

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Re: was 3D a plothole?

The sleeping worlds are worlds that were consumed by the Heartless but were sent to the realm of sleep instead of the realm of darkness. Heartless should not be able to invade any part of that world thanks to the Cornerstone of Light.
I don't think that's entirely true. Joshua said Traverse Town came to him there when looking for refuge for Neku & Co. We also see Yen Sids tower and The World That Never Was in the sleeping and waking worlds simultaneously.
Plus there'd have to be a sleeping realm to fall into for the worlds to end up there in the first place. I recall Yen Sid pointing out some worlds ended up there after KH1 because even though they was saved from darkness/Ansem they still could wake from it. He never said the realm is made of those worlds alone.
The realm isn't really explained on so for all we know it is holding countless worlds.

Unless there is some report or interview saying otherwise. I don't keep up with those. Only what's said in-game.
 

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Re: was 3D a plothole?

Mickey recognises that Sora is from another world and says he is the same. I think when he said World he meant World and not country. The sleeping worlds are worlds that were consumed by the Heartless but were sent to the realm of sleep instead of the realm of darkness. Heartless should not be able to invade any part of that world thanks to the Cornerstone of Light.

As for how they got there was it ever stated anywhere that Gummi ships weren't invented till after BBS because Mickey had to have some form of travel before then as otherwise he would never have got to train under Yensid. I know he had star shard in that game but that was given to him by Yensid. If it wasn't through Gummi ships then only answer I can think of is teleportation magic. We know Merlin can transport himself and others between worlds so perhaps they enlisted his help? At any rate it seems that Mickey and the others have been aware of the existence of other worlds since long before BBS.
Transportation between worlds was possible because of the power of the Keyblade and in some instances magic, Scrooge mentions that it was Merlin who brought him to Radiant Garden and we see Merlin is capable of this in KH2.

BUT ANYWAY, yes, we know gummi ships weren't invented until after BBS because the Star Shard was a primitive gummi block. Mickey was just starting to experiment with that technology, and Gummi ships are created from chunks of the broken down barriers of the worlds. The world barriers didn't begin to fall until after Birth by Sleep.
 

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Tinny,
Normally I'd agree with you but Nomura makes up shit as he goes along

He retcons heartless
He retcons Xehanort
He retcons half of his own shit because he doesn't even remember what he said 10 years ago

So why wouldn't time travel be yet another retcon Nomura decided to do?
 

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Tinny,
Normally I'd agree with you but Nomura makes up shit as he goes along

He retcons heartless
He retcons Xehanort
He retcons half of his own shit because he doesn't even remember what he said 10 years ago

So why wouldn't time travel be yet another retcon Nomura decided to do?
Because he's still using Merlin's power over time as of 3D, who do you think enchanted that temporally flexible chamber? He mentions him by name.
 
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