Thirteen Lights, Seven Darknesses

[Nanelle]

This is an idea I’ve had for a long time, and I was curious what you guys think of it. I’ve looked on several pages and I don’t believe I’ve seen a theory such as this before. If I missed it, I apologize. Anyway, this is my theory of how there will be thirteen lights and seven darknesses.

Xehanort’s goal is recreating the X-Blade that was. Why can’t there be a new X-Blade: One made with thirteen lights and seven darknesses? Sure, Xehanort apparently has thirteen darknesses. However, based on one of his lines- that one of the lights was on their side, it seems that someone can serve on both sides (even against their wills). Xehanort did say, “Sora and another on your list belong to me now, and that puts you three guardians short.”

It is also implied that there are more than seven potential lights and thirteen potential darknesses. Why should that limit a new X-blade, one unlike the previous?

Who would be the thirteen lights then? Most of these are easy, especially the rate that Keyblades are handed out.

Sora, Riku, and Kairi.
Roxas, Xion, and Lea
Aqua, Terra, Ventus
Mickey.

Those are the first ten. The rest are a little trickier. Based on the seeming ease of acquiring Keyblades, and how so many characters in this series are trio’s (Sora, Riku Kairi; Roxas, Axel, Xion; etc), I’m guessing that Donald and Goofy will become Keyblade wielders. Additionally, I’m guessing that Namine will become one as well, to round the number to thirteen. Or, Eraqus returning to fight once more.

The overall point, and idea that I’m guessing will happen, is that Xehanort is wrong in limiting the new X-Blade to being an exact replica as the original. Instead it will be one filled with far more light than darkness.

As for Xehanorts Darknesses, that guy has a serious problem of relying on himself. Purge the darkness out of some of his clones, and he’ll lose some of his number immediately. Plus, he supposedly has twelve at the moment, though some are new characters that can’t reasonably be commented on. And of course Terra is going to be purified, removing him as one of Xehanorts clones, further reducing his number. By the time everyone is assembled and fighting, I don’t think there will be complete opposite numbers as to what Xehanort predicted. Thirteen Lights, Seven Darknesses.

I’ve been thinking about this for some time and was curious about your thoughts.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

This is an idea I’ve had for a long time, and I was curious what you guys think of it. I’ve looked on several pages and I don’t believe I’ve seen a theory such as this before. If I missed it, I apologize. Anyway, this is my theory of how there will be thirteen lights and seven darknesses.

There definitely hasn't been one so kudos on thinking it up! It's an interesting concept!

Xehanort’s goal is recreating the X-Blade that was. Why can’t there be a new X-Blade: One made with thirteen lights and seven darknesses?

The thing about Xehanort's equation is that 7 lights have about the same power as 13 darknesses because, in Xehanort's words, "too much of the darkness has been stamped out, disrupting that balance." Xehanort doesn't seem to be correct in his assessment, though, because there are only pockets of light (the worlds) that exist and are surrounded by endless darkness (the lanes between, the sea of worlds, whatever you wish to call it and the Realm of Darkness) and 7 hearts of pure light serving as pillars of light in the Realm of Light...but this isn't something we can quantify since we have nothing to follow besides what little we know about the lore of the series and Xehanort's untrustworthy reports.

Of course this could just mean that the light is just that powerful that even pockets of it and the 7PoH dwarf the power of the darkness that surrounds everything else in the universe.

Also, if you were to have 13 lights and 7 darknesses, it implies that the light is much weaker and needs more to counterbalance 7 powerful darknesses and Xehanort is already implying that the light is stronger and so he needs more on his side as to keep things even.

In part, from a symbolic stance, it is reflecting how 13 is an unlucky/evil number and 7 is a perfect/holy number.

This is not to discount your theory, though. Just a bit of explaining why Xehanort is planning things they way he is.

Sure, Xehanort apparently has thirteen darknesses. However, based on one of his lines- that one of the lights was on their side, it seems that someone can serve on both sides (even against their wills). Xehanort did say, “Sora and another on your list belong to me now, and that puts you three guardians short.”

Not so much serve on both sides but they can be pushed to different sides depending on the situation, though I think that is what you meant anyways.

It is also implied that there are more than seven potential lights and thirteen potential darknesses.

Yes, that is true. There are quite a number of people beyond the 20 that will eventually clash that can be on either side. It is why it is a big mystery as to who will be on each side.

Who would be the thirteen lights then? Most of these are easy, especially the rate that Keyblades are handed out.

Sora, Riku, and Kairi.
Roxas, Xion, and Lea
Aqua, Terra, Ventus
Mickey.

Those are the first ten. The rest are a little trickier. Based on the seeming ease of acquiring Keyblades, and how so many characters in this series are trio’s (Sora, Riku Kairi; Roxas, Axel, Xion; etc), I’m guessing that Donald and Goofy will become Keyblade wielders. Additionally, I’m guessing that Namine will become one as well, to round the number to thirteen. Or, Eraqus returning to fight once more.

Although the 20 who will clash against each other will all likely be wielders or have very deep connections to a wielder, the key step to creating the X-blade is having hearts with equal amounts of opposing light and darkness clash. Nothing about it really says it is necessary for all 20 to have their own individual Keyblades. It is just because of what is being created that implies that they should all be wielders, and it happens to be that the people with the strongest concentrations of light and darkness are wielders and the people who Xehanort has seeded.

(This is barring the PoH, but in order to clash against them properly there would probably need to be hearts of pure darkness which don't exist by natural means).

I don't think Donald and Goofy will have Keyblades lol

As for Xehanorts Darknesses, that guy has a serious problem of relying on himself. Purge the darkness out of some of his clones, and he’ll lose some of his number immediately. Plus, he supposedly has twelve at the moment, though some are new characters that can’t reasonably be commented on. And of course Terra is going to be purified, removing him as one of Xehanorts clones, further reducing his number. By the time everyone is assembled and fighting, I don’t think there will be complete opposite numbers as to what Xehanort predicted. Thirteen Lights, Seven Darknesses.

You are certainly right about this. Xehanort's plan seems very flawed, but there is most likely something about what he's done to his seeded darknesses that might make the task of bringing some of them back to the side of light or pushing them out of the battle in general more difficult than it seems.

All in all, I think your idea is very interesting and holds merit. It's been proven time and time again that Xehanort is not an honest person and is definitely biased towards the darkness, so trusting that his 7 GoL vs 13 SoDs equation is truly perfect is something we can only do because it is all we really know about the X-blade.

Symbolically, I don't think it'll happen because there is meaning behind the numbers, but who knows. Nomura may want to go against the status quo!

 

[Zak1403]

Also, if you were to have 13 lights and 7 darknesses, it implies that the light is much weaker and needs more to counterbalance 7 powerful darknesses and Xehanort is already implying that the light is stronger and so he needs more on his side as to keep things even.

But you yourself said its slightly unbelievable to believe that the light of the worlds outbalance the darkness. With so much darkness taking over it would be plausible to need more lights, 13 in fact, even if the light is inherently stronger.

I could see this as a possibility to counter the darkness, and it could even give form to the next saga about an over balance of the light.
I don't think Xehanort will achieve perfect balance of light and dark in KHIII, and I honestly hope he doesn't. It's probably harder than everyone anticipates.

Overall I'm a fan of this theory and could picture it in practise.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

The reason as to why Nomura specifically placed 7 lights against 13 darkness' is because 7 is considered a lucky number whilst 13 is regarded as an unlucky number. Makes sense for conventional purposes, however, it's not entirely out of the question to switch them over.

 

[Nanelle]

I've never been big on the idea of balance. Seriously, darkness represents all the things that we don't want. Hate, rage, fear, sorrow; who actually wants to feel those things? Far better to get rid of as many of those emotions as possible and actually enjoy the light (both in the real world and in KH).
I also don't see Xehanort wanting a balance. He may say so, but he has consistently shown love for the darkness and would never want to share power with the opposition, or anyone that isn't him.
I don't actually want Donald and Goofy to get Keyblades. It would be odd for them, but complete the trio of wielders for Mickey's circle. Thank you Spockanort for clearing up that you don't need to be a wielder to help forge the X-Blade. That's much better than dropping those two Keyblades.
This isn't part of my main theory, but I wouldn't be surprised if the quantities of Light and Darkness were switched in such a way as to have on big massive world, each with different countries for the worlds, or somesuch. It would be interesting if, say, Tarzan met Elsa and Anna, or Baymax was hanging out with Ariel.

 

[Nayru's Love]

Xehanort’s goal is recreating the X-Blade that was. Why can’t there be a new X-Blade?

It's not quite that the X-Blade originally was composed of twenty fragments, rather it's that it was never fragmented before. So, its current state is arguably a reflection of the predicaments that fragmented it in the first place: The disappearance of KH and the collapse of the universe. Because of that, I agree with Ethy in that there is some intentional design to seven lights and thirteen darknesses. However, I think it has more to do with the possibility that the lights were always meant to be at a disadvantage in power compared to the darknesses, which may also have given MX some of his confidence in how things will play out later.

 

[VoidGear.]

Donald and Goofy wielding keyblades sure is enough of a reason I want to see this happen.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

I've never been big on the idea of balance. Seriously, darkness represents all the things that we don't want. Hate, rage, fear, sorrow; who actually wants to feel those things? Far better to get rid of as many of those emotions as possible and actually enjoy the light (both in the real world and in KH).

That goes against a primary lesson given by KH2. Throughout the game, Sora suffers through his negative feelings of confusion, doubt, anger, failure, but it was only by accepting that he was experiencing those feelings that he was able to overcome them. Even when he felt sorrow, it still gave way to happiness.

It is only by accepting that you will experience negative emotions that makes the positive moments just that much more great. You can never stay blindingly happy or even just content all of the time. It creates emotional discord, and eventually there will ALWAYS be a point where you just cannot be happy. You can't ignore those feelings, and pushing them aside or suppressing them only serves to make those feelings become more explosive later on. All emotions only last for brief periods.

In a personal note, as a student of psychology I just don't recommend that at all. Suppression of negative emotions almost always leads to even worse consequences. Also you can't keep yourself stimulated to trigger the hormones that keep you happy all of the time, and if you could you'll eventually plateau either because the receptors for those chemicals are full, there are not enough materials to create the chemicals, or you have some kind of dysfunction that needs to be looked into.

Not to mention dopamine, oxytocin, and serotonin can affect judgement and rational thought. (Anything can, but if we are talking about constant happiness...)

There is a reason we experience negative emotions. They are a way to help us cope with the stresses internally and externally affecting us and warn us/protect us against danger.

But yeaaaaah. Anyways. It's good to be happy but it is also good to be sad, angry, disappointed, and so on. It helps you learn as a person. It is only when you are too sad, too happy, too much of any emotion that it becomes a problem.

Back to the lore, there is a reason the light fell in the first place. People wanted the light and the power it possessed for their own, and so they began to fight over it. (Which is another metaphor for how too much of a good thing can be a bad thing.)

Thank you Spockanort for clearing up that you don't need to be a wielder to help forge the X-Blade. That's much better than dropping those two Keyblades.

Yeah, np! It just makes sense that those who have weapons fashioned after the X-Blade would also fight to create it and wield it. It primarily about the hearts clashing, though, which is why there really isn't anything that says that they MUST be wielders. Half of Xehanort's army has no Keyblade...and I don't imagine they will all be getting Keyblades, either. (If Nomura does that...I think we might all cry)

 

[Master Alew]

But MX want another KEYBLADE war isn't? Aren't Keyblades necessary for the war?

 

[Sephiroth0812]

It's not quite that the X-Blade originally was composed of twenty fragments, rather it's that it was never fragmented before. So, its current state is arguably a reflection of the predicaments that fragmented it in the first place: The disappearance of KH and the collapse of the universe. Because of that, I agree with Ethy in that there is some intentional design to seven lights and thirteen darknesses. However, I think it has more to do with the possibility that the lights were always meant to be at a disadvantage in power compared to the darknesses, which may also have given MX some of his confidence in how things will play out later.

Concerning this though I've always wondered from where both Xehanort and Yen Sid got the knowledge (and the confirmation) that the original X-blade not only did indeed break into twenty fragments, but also of which quantity each element was present in the pieces. For that knowledge to exist and to be transmissioned over the vast time span since the first war someone would have to have witnessed the fate of the original X-blade and also ascertained the nature of its twenty shards.

That the lights are meant to be at a disadvantage in power is unlikely though, as the conditions state that the two poles of light and darkness have to be equal in order to give the right results when they clash.

That goes against a primary lesson given by KH2. Throughout the game, Sora suffers through his negative feelings of confusion, doubt, anger, failure, but it was only by accepting that he was experiencing those feelings that he was able to overcome them. Even when he felt sorrow, it still gave way to happiness.

It is only by accepting that you will experience negative emotions that makes the positive moments just that much more great. You can never stay blindingly happy or even just content all of the time. It creates emotional discord, and eventually there will ALWAYS be a point where you just cannot be happy. You can't ignore those feelings, and pushing them aside or suppressing them only serves to make those feelings become more explosive later on. All emotions only last for brief periods.

In a personal note, as a student of psychology I just don't recommend that at all. Suppression of negative emotions almost always leads to even worse consequences. Also you can't keep yourself stimulated to trigger the hormones that keep you happy all of the time, and if you could you'll eventually plateau either because the receptors for those chemicals are full, there are not enough materials to create the chemicals, or you have some kind of dysfunction that needs to be looked into.

Not to mention dopamine, oxytocin, and serotonin can affect judgement and rational thought. (Anything can, but if we are talking about constant happiness...)

There is a reason we experience negative emotions. They are a way to help us cope with the stresses internally and externally affecting us and warn us/protect us against danger.

But yeaaaaah. Anyways. It's good to be happy but it is also good to be sad, angry, disappointed, and so on. It helps you learn as a person. It is only when you are too sad, too happy, too much of any emotion that it becomes a problem.

Back to the lore, there is a reason the light fell in the first place. People wanted the light and the power it possessed for their own, and so they began to fight over it. (Which is another metaphor for how too much of a good thing can be a bad thing.)

Yeah, np! It just makes sense that those who have weapons fashioned after the X-Blade would also fight to create it and wield it. It primarily about the hearts clashing, though, which is why there really isn't anything that says that they MUST be wielders. Half of Xehanort's army has no Keyblade...and I don't imagine they will all be getting Keyblades, either. (If Nomura does that...I think we might all cry)

I wonder if Nanelle was talking specifically about Xehanort's propaganda lie of "balance" which he uses to try and justify his acrocities, as even other characters who accept and acknowledge Darkness as a necessary element as well as the negatives emotions tied to it, like Yen Sid, Ansem the Wise, Mickey and Riku, do not propose to actually put both elements on the exact same footing as it is practically undeniable that Darkness as an element, while not evil, is significantly more dangerous than Light and much more easily misused.
However, since beings who have no Darkness are capable of having negative emotions too, as shown with Kairi, Jasmine (when she discovers Iago in KH 2, she gets pretty upset), Belle, Ven and others the negative emotions cannot be solely designated as representations of Darkness, but rather of things that can lead to darkness if left unchecked.
I believe I read somewhere that x[chi] is also implying something towards this in its own story, which furthermore strengthens the point you made about that it is when any emotion becomes too intense that the problems start.

It being primarily about hearts clashing leads back to the Keyblade point however as according to the Glossary the clash needs to happen between equal forces and the strongest hearts are most often those who are chosen by Keyblades, as having a very strong heart is one of the few clear-cut conditions to obtain a Keyblade we know about.

But MX want another KEYBLADE war isn't? Aren't Keyblades necessary for the war?

As Braig says in the Re:Coded Secret ending, no one truly knows what Xehanort's actual ultimate goal is, not even his own younger self. Nearly every game in the series gives a different spin to Xehanort's goal, the only constants are that he wants to obtain the powers of Kingdom Hearts to become a god-like being and somehow rewrite/reshape the universe, unraveling the secrets of the first Keyblade War in the process. Starting another Keyblade War is just another means for him to try and reach these goals, the war is not Xehanort's goal in itself.

If only Keyblades would really be necessary for the war, one could prevent the war by simply destroying all Keyblades, yet war can be waged with different weapons nonetheless.

 

[Empress Mitsuru]

Here's a theory I've got, the POH have a dark counterpart, 13 people born from the dark fragments of the X-Blade.