They Need to Improve Level Design

[Awesome Psycho]

In Kingdom Hearts 1, the level design was perfect but in the later games, well....it just got worst . Most worlds in the later games feel, kind of the same, although their visuals are different, There is very little design to differentiate them from one another. They just feel like worlds with different skin packs. In Kingdom Hearts 1, you could always tell were you were,Atlantica was underwater,neverland was tight and compact.Even the two city levels including Traverse Town and Agrabah, people hated Wonderland, but at least it was distinct. They would also make the scale bigger, make them feel bigger, but flowmotion will ruin that.

 

[gosoxtim]

In Kingdom Hearts 1, the level design was perfect but in the later games, well....it just got worst . Most worlds in the later games feel, kind of the same, although their visuals are different, There is very little design to differentiate them from one another. They just feel like worlds with different skin packs. In Kingdom Hearts 1, you could always tell were you were,Atlantica was underwater,neverland was tight and compact.Even the two city levels including Traverse Town and Agrabah, people hated Wonderland, but at least it was distinct. They would also make the scale bigger, make them feel bigger, but flowmotion will ruin that.

well if they working closely with the disney animators like roy conli or other people i think we going to see a dramtic look in how they look structire wise i think they look much easier for instance i think we going to tell the difference between aradelle and the kingdom of corona

 

[hemmoheikkinen]

I agree that KH1 had the best level design, but I don`t think the rest of the games levels are that bad. But I do kinda miss it that in KH1 it felt that all the levels had a certain.. how shall I put... trick. In Wonderland the spaces twist and turn, in Atlantica you swim, in Hollow Bastion you mess with the elevators, and get up this huge creepy castle. There was a lot personality and it made them feel different like you say. I also enjoyed the platforming sections quite a bit.
About Flowmotion, I liked it. I think they have to tone it down a little bit, which I understood they are going to do. I aslo think they can build up platforming sections around Flowmotion, which makes it feel little bit like KH1 again. In last world of DDD there is this platform section with Riku, where you have figure out your way to a treasure chest. In some of the panels/walls in that area you could not use flowmotion, so you had to to approach the situation little differently, and think about how you time your jumps etc... What if they expand this in KHIII? Or they could limit the jumps you are able to do. My wish is that in III they are able to combine the personality of KHI levels, and the large maps of DDD. That would be really interesting.

EDIT: Uuhh.... I think what the op means is the structure of the levels them selves, not necceserily the visual style.

 

[Audo]

well if they working closely with the disney animators like roy conli or other people i think we going to see a dramtic look in how they look structire wise i think they look much easier for instance i think we going to tell the difference between aradelle and the kingdom of corona

so now roy conli is a master video game level designer?
people are making way too much out of this dude lol

 

[gosoxtim]

well roy conli the only person that woking with closly with square right now to get his movie right for the worlds as far as we know unless we hear from the frozen directors at a kingdom hearts event or any kind of event

 

[HugoDipper]

I admire the level design in the Kingdom Hearts games, they have put so much details in the scenario like The Dalmatian's House, Wonderland, Twilight Town and so on, of course there is not too much interaction in the maps, NPCs and they are not huge but you guys need to remember that they designed maps for hardware that wasn't the best at the moment(PS2, DS, PSP and Feature Phones, not even Smartphones!) and now they have a chance to make for very powerfull machines like XBONE and PS4.

 

[Vanitas666]

3D was awesome though, if it wasn't for the flomo it would have had the best level design of all the games, every single world is just amazing really (we only need to keep the interact able environment stuff using flomo with the grinding and some of those things you can spin around on without any of the wall jumping and overpowered shit like that)

Edit - just got the strangest deja vu, wasn't there an identical thread to this just a month back?
And Dipper above me (editing right now so I can't see your username but I just read the comment) wrote the exact same comment (or very similar) back then.

 

[Face My Fears]

I do think that KH1 had the best level design for the worlds. They all felt unique, which was a good thing. KH2 was good enough, but the other games just felt like the skins of worlds changed, but they were all the same. I hope they can find a way to bring back that uniqueness in KH3. That's why I really want Atlantica, Never Land, and Halloween Town to return. Just imagine if the majority of Never Land's world takes place in the air?

 

[Elysium]

I'm fine as long as the worlds are like they are in Dream Drop Distance at least. I'd like KH1 quality, but I don't think the series will ever get to that point again. As long as they're not as bad as in KH2, I'm satisfied.

 

[Audo]

3D was awesome though, if it wasn't for the flomo it would have had the best level design of all the games

The only reason the worlds were designed like that is because of FlowMotion >___>

 

[Vanitas666]

The only reason the worlds were designed like that is because of FlowMotion >___>

That's what's sad because flomo is the only reason they weren't all that fun.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

That's what's sad because flomo is the only reason they weren't all that fun.

Without the Flowmotion it would have taken ages to traverse the maps though not to mention some areas like the big skyscraper in Sora's version of the World that never was (which also has one of the Link Portals) would be completely unreachable.

KH is not Donkey Kong, Tomb Raider or Super Mario where you are supposed to waste heaps of time with useless jumping challenges or so-called "platforming".
Issues like these are what make Deep Jungle and especially Monstro in the first KH so annoying.

 

[Shadow Yuk]

In my opinion, the design of Kh1 worlds were more focused on platforming (first thoughts went on Tarzan world). The design evolved with the gameplay in Kingdom Hearts 2, making the game feel more faster even when we were just chilling around. Dream Drop Distance made a step forward, with more complex scenarios, Kingdom Hearts 3 already showed us a glimpse of variety in the Hercules world. A more agile Sora will help to make more complex, while easy to traverse, worlds, in my opinion.

 

[Launchpad]

Without the Flowmotion it would have taken ages to traverse the maps though not to mention some areas like the big skyscraper in Sora's version of the World that never was (which also has one of the Link Portals) would be completely unreachable.

KH is not Donkey Kong, Tomb Raider or Super Mario where you are supposed to waste heaps of time with useless jumping challenges or so-called "platforming".
Issues like these are what make Deep Jungle and especially Monstro in the first KH so annoying.

I personally value a map that's tougher to travel through. KH1 had platforming, KH2FM did, DDD did, KHIII will, so I don't think it's fair to decide what KH is or isn't based on what you prefer

 

[Sephiroth0812]

I personally value a map that's tougher to travel through. KH1 had platforming, KH2FM did, DDD did, KHIII will, so I don't think it's fair to decide what KH is or isn't based on what you prefer

It has less to do with preference but more with observing what KH puts its priority on, which after KH 1 became more and more about fast and flashy action/mobility as well as intense battles. Any platforming involved was/is only secondary and KHIIFM, as far as I can remember, had barely any platforming outside the Cavern of Remembrance, which is entirely an optional dungeon and in there, the area with the most platforming elements (Mining Area) is devoid of enemies, marking it as one of the few places where the platforming is actually treated as the primary asset of the area.
DDD's platforming is also relative to how good one is with Flowmotion, which is an A+ example of KH's priority on high mobility, which will most likely get more refined and controllable in KH III allowing people even more freedom in how to traverse the maps.

 

[Launchpad]

It has less to do with preference but more with observing what KH puts its priority on, which after KH 1 became more and more about fast and flashy action/mobility as well as intense battles. Any platforming involved was/is only secondary and KHIIFM, as far as I can remember, had barely any platforming outside the Cavern of Remembrance, which is entirely an optional dungeon and in there, the area with the most platforming elements (Mining Area) is devoid of enemies, marking it as one of the few places where the platforming is actually treated as the primary asset of the area.
DDD's platforming is also relative to how good one is with Flowmotion, which is an A+ example of KH's priority on high mobility, which will most likely get more refined and controllable in KH III allowing people even more freedom in how to traverse the maps.

What's most valuable is variety. In a game about travelling to other worlds, especially based on all these diverse properties, it's a shame for them to be physically identical, from a raw gameplay standpoint. KH2 and BBS are obviously the worst offenders here, though BBS was a teensy bit better than 2 for world uniqueness. DDD shows that the worlds CAN have their own special identities, with The Grid, Prankster's Paradise, and Fantasia being the standout examples. Like it or not, platforming and other such challenges/quirks can really add to the contrast of worlds and keep them from being too homogenized.

 

[Vanitas666]

Without the Flowmotion it would have taken ages to traverse the maps though not to mention some areas like the big skyscraper in Sora's version of the World that never was (which also has one of the Link Portals) would be completely unreachable.

KH is not Donkey Kong, Tomb Raider or Super Mario where you are supposed to waste heaps of time with useless jumping challenges or so-called "platforming".
Issues like these are what make Deep Jungle and especially Monstro in the first KH so annoying.

I loved those worlds, except two parts of Deep Jungle - swinging in the tree's which is just useless and jumping on those hippos.
You're right about TWTNW though but that doesn't really matter, one exception (and I like the wall running in KH III that can only be activated on certain places so that's awesome).
With the new huge worlds I think platforming might be better then ever though, hopefully.

 

[Audo]

That's what's sad because flomo is the only reason they weren't all that fun.

You know using FlowMotion is more or less optional, right?

I really don't get people who don't find FlowMotion fun, especially for traversing. Climbing walls, soaring through the area, being able to bounce from wall to wall to wall to wall, etc. This shit was dope.

Anyway, I think DDD had some of the best design since KH1. But I really miss interactivity with the worlds' environments and having little things that can be done. KH3D had this a little bit with being able to grind and swing from lamposts and stuff, but I miss the smaller details. Things like the Postcards, or the Inn Puzzle, experimenting in the camp, the slides, etc. These things made the world feel more alive and lived in and actually real. Now adays any interactive element is mostly just used for combat.

 

[Vanitas666]

You know using FlowMotion is more or less optional, right?

Don't give me that bullshit, you can't turn it of, you can only turn of the usefulness of it but if you dodge in to a wall you still activate the flomo animation and if you deactivate everything you just have to wait so you can keep moving without any advantaged to dodging in to that wall (if you try it you'll know what I mean).
Furthermore it's needed for combat, that's my main problem with it rather then taking the fun out of platforming, they made all the enemies super strong and able to hit you without giving you a single chance to see them coming, if they wanna have super strong enemies as a challenge that's great but give me the chance to see them, I play on easy now that I've completed Critical but I still feel cheated all the time even if I never actually die.
So isn't this a problem with the enemies and not the flomo? Maybe to an extent but no, they only made everyone so overpowered because the flomo is so overpowered but the bottom line is even if I could turn of flomo (which I can't) I'd end up needing it to survive.
(The bad camera also doesn't help...)

And if they give you the ability to cheat your way out of everything why would you give yourself a handicap? It's not like I have to write in some cheat code, that's just bad game design.

 

[Audo]

And if they give you the ability to cheat your way out of everything why would you give yourself a handicap? It's not like I have to write in some cheat code, that's just bad game design.

Why do some people play only using the Kingdom Key? Because it's an extra handicap, they want the challenge, because they find the game too easy and so are limiting one of the things that makes it easier. It's like when people complain about overpowered commands. If it really bothers you then don't use the command?

And no, you can't turn off FlowMotion entirely but you can turn off all the attack commands for it. And regardless of the strength of the enemies, you still aren't forced to use FlowMotion against them. Skill it up~

Either way, I'm not too invested in arguing this further. I loved FlowMotion. KH3D was the most fun I've had playing a KH game in a long while. It's shame you didn't like it. But, eh. So it goes.