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Theory about Roxas(KH II and Final Mix+ Mentioned)



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The Twilight Prince

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Nope. Roxas doesn't hold Ven's heart. Why do people assume that because they look alike that they are the same person?

ROXAS IS SORA. VEN IS 10 YEARS OLDER THAN SORA PEOPLE! DAMMIT, USE YOUR BRAIN!

You nor anybody else knows that for sure, so there's no need to profess to. Having the heart of a person does not make you that person, least in the case of a nobody it doesn't. Roxas was Sora's body and soul yet seemed to show emotion throughout Kh2 despite his being a nobody. It's a perfectly logical thought to think that Ven's heart COULD be there. Roxas is Sora, but very well could have held the heart of another. I mean. Sora had Kairi's heart within him, and that doesn't make him Kairi does it?
 

Genocide

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You nor anybody else knows that for sure

Let me educate you. ^_^

Having the heart of a person does not make you that person

True, but their memories will be yours to access. Example? Kairi's Grandmother.

least in the case of a nobody it doesn't.

The memories would still have been able to be accessed. Doesn't matter though, Ven's heart isn't in Roxas.

Roxas was Sora's body and soul yet seemed to show emotion throughout Kh2 despite his being a nobody.

More than likely due to the fact that:

a. Nomura said that nobodies remember emotions, and are able to emulate them.
b. Sora was still around, allowing him to access said emotions in extreme duress.

It's a perfectly logical thought to think that Ven's heart COULD be there.

Only for anyone who didn't pay attention during KH2.

Roxas is Sora, but very well could have held the heart of another.

Which goes against the principal of a nobody. Do you even know what a nobody is?

I mean. Sora had Kairi's heart within him, and that doesn't make him Kairi does it?

Never said it would. Where did that come from? That's not even relevant to what I'm talking about.
 

Gexus

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Nice theory...Although bear in mind that in one interview with Nomura he said that you can have one keyblade per heart. Notice when Sora could weald two keyblades, that was when he absorbed Goofy's or Donald's hearts.

Doesn't that mean Roxas has more than 1 heart?
 

Star Seeker 14

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i'm new here and i just thought of an theory. i'm sorry in advance if it has been discussed before but i have never seen it so yeah. i was thinking, you know how ven asks his friend to erase him? well maybe instead of being erased he was placed inside of sora thus he came out as roxas and i think this kind of explains why roxas has emotions/ a heart
 

Genocide

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i'm new here and i just thought of an theory. i'm sorry in advance if it has been discussed before but i have never seen it so yeah. i was thinking, you know how ven asks his friend to erase him? well maybe instead of being erased he was placed inside of sora thus he came out as roxas and i think this kind of explains why roxas has emotions/ a heart

1. You're not the first to think this.
2. I doesn't explain it. It's an excuse.
3. Roxas is Sora
4. Ven is 10 years older than Sora.
5. Ven=/=Roxas
 

Star Seeker 14

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1. You're not the first to think this.
2. I doesn't explain it. It's an excuse.
3. Roxas is Sora
4. Ven is 10 years older than Sora.
5. Ven=/=Roxas
1. i'm sorry
2.what? the fact that ven asked to be erased?
3.i know this. maybe when ven was "erased"(if he was) he forgot he was ven
4.i also understand this but i don't understand what that has to do with my theory
5. back to number 3
 

Genocide

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1. i'm sorry
2.what? the fact that ven asked to be erased?
3.i know this. maybe when ven was "erased"(if he was) he forgot he was ven
4.i also understand this but i don't understand what that has to do with my theory
5. back to number 3

My completely true and valid points aside, there is no way that Roxas is Ven.
 

Thenewkeyblade

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im not sure about this theory. if roxas had sora's heart then sora would not exist at the time of when chain of memories started. but now the quesiton is, who's heart did sora gain when he came back from being a heartless? well i think a bit of kairi's heart became his but im not too sure.
 

Genocide

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im not sure about this theory. if roxas had sora's heart then sora would not exist at the time of when chain of memories started. but now the quesiton is, who's heart did sora gain when he came back from being a heartless? well i think a bit of kairi's heart became his but im not too sure.

He didn't gain anyone's heart. He became a human heartless, or more specific, an existence solely of a heart.
 

The Twilight Prince

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Let me educate you. ^_^

*waits*

True, but their memories will be yours to access. Example? Kairi's Grandmother.

But remember, Roxas' memories were erased. He didn't remember being in Organization XIII at all, nor did he remember Sora or anything like that. Who's to say that this didn't affect Ven's heart had it been there also?

The memories would still have been able to be accessed. Doesn't matter though, Ven's heart isn't in Roxas.

Not necessarily. Remember that Kairi still had her memory when her heart went into Sora. In the screen of Terra and Ven on DI, he said "erase me" or something along those lines yes? Perhaps his memories were what was erased, rather than him. *shrugs* Just an idea.

More than likely due to the fact that:

a. Nomura said that nobodies remember emotions, and are able to emulate them.
b. Sora was still around, allowing him to access said emotions in extreme duress.

A. Well that doesn't exactly apply to Roxas at the beginning of the game now does it? Roxas didn't remember anything at the beginning of Kh2. Let alone emotion. For him to "emulate" emotion, he would most likely have to remember being a nobody in the first place. Because my bet is that "emulating" emotion feels significantly different than actually feeling it. Anybody would be able to tell the difference.

B. From what we've seen, the only time emotions seemed to be instigated from Sora is when Roxas is provoked. Like when Riku mocks his fighting, or when Roxas gets in contact with Kairi. Any other was just regular old feeling. Like feeling sorry when he made Hayner and the gang angry.

Only for anyone who didn't pay attention during KH2.

Correction, for anybody who looks at things in a different way and has their own opinion about what things mean. Be they wrong or right. Nobody knows.

Which goes against the principal of a nobody. Do you even know what a nobody is?

Yes I do, thank you. But you have to think, if anyone who referred to Roxas as a nobody didn't know about Ven, then of course they would think that Roxas is pure nobody, and if you use the whole "Well he fused back with Sora," argument, then think. If Ven's heart was originally with Sora, then clearly it wasn't strong enough to exist alone, or it didn't have a body to go to, as Kairi's didn't, and would easily go back with Sora. That's what I meant.

Never said it would. Where did that come from? That's not even relevant to what I'm talking about.

I was referring to this statement...
ROXAS IS SORA. VEN IS 10 YEARS OLDER THAN SORA PEOPLE! DAMMIT, USE YOUR BRAIN!

You said that in response to UrbanQuattrus saying that Ven's heart COULD be with Roxas, signifying (to me at least) that you thought that meant simply having Ven's heart made Roxas Ven. That isn't what UQ meant. I said that Sora had Kairi's heart statement to show that that isn't what he meant.
 

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Because my bet is that "emulating" emotion feels significantly different than actually feeling it. Anybody would be able to tell the difference.

So you could tell all the Organization was faking?

EDIT: Sorry, misread that. Disregard this post.
 
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Only for anyone who didn't pay attention during KH2.

More like anyone who paid attention to KH2FM. The extra scene with Axel brings up the topic of Roxas having a heart, as you know. Now one could simply brush this off as a reference to a heart he has metaphorically, not literally. And I would have done just that, had Nomura not elaborated:

Question: In the additional event “Farewell to a Friend”, there’s a scene where Axel tells Roxas “You really do have a heart, don’t you”. What is the actual case here?

Nomura: In this scene, it ends bringing up more mysteries about Roxas, so for the answer, maybe take care to follow your hunches well. It’s also related to Xehanort’s memories, but I can’t give any specifics now.

It intends to bring up mystery. They wouldn't put emphasis on it otherwise.
 

The Twilight Prince

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More like anyone who paid attention to KH2FM. The extra scene with Axel brings up the topic of Roxas having a heart, as you know. Now one could simply brush this off as a reference to a heart he has metaphorically, not literally. And I would have done just that, had Nomura not elaborated:

QFT. Precisely my point. And notice how Nomura says that it has to do with Xehanort's memories. BBS is all about Xehanort's memories. Ven is in BBS. It obviously has SOMETHING to do with Ven. I mean. Roxas having a heart doesn't have to with Xehanort directly. I mean. It could have something to do with MX, as he froze Ven and has been seen in a couple scenes with him, but you get my point.

It intends to bring up mystery. They wouldn't put emphasis on it otherwise.

Exactly. Thanks for bringing up that scene. And the Nomura thing. Forgot about that.
 
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I'm guessing some are against the concept of Roxas having a heart because it contradicts the fact that he's a Nobody. In a sense, it would almost make a major part of KH2 a waste. But it's still possible. Both Namine and Roxas are special Nobodies. Roxas having a heart goes against the definition of a Nobody that we know, but it's the same for Namine. She was not created from a body and soul:

In other words, both the Nobody called Naminé and the Heartless—proof of a lost heart—are extremely unstable beings who lack the bodies needed to produce a Nobody. Therefore, they also lack Kairi's memories. One reason for this may be that Kairi's heart did not return to the darkness when separated from her body, but rather migrated to another vessel…deep within Sora's heart.

She is a “non-being” in the truest sense of the word; having not even become a Nobody and with nowhere left to go, she is but the most fleeting of shadows.

Naminé.

As I have written here before, she is a most unusual being.

Born of the same process as a Nobody, but lacking virtually all the elements of a Nobody.

Conversely, for Roxas, it could be that he was born of the same process as a Nobody, but with the additional element that a Nobody doesn't have, a heart.
 

Genocide

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The PMF teaches all who wish to learn

But remember, Roxas' memories were erased. He didn't remember being in Organization XIII at all, nor did he remember Sora or anything like that. Who's to say that this didn't affect Ven's heart had it been there also?

They hadn't been erased, just reshuffled. The chains of his memory was shuffled. So that makes CoM another you didn't factor in.

Not necessarily. Remember that Kairi still had her memory when her heart went into Sora. In the screen of Terra and Ven on DI, he said "erase me" or something along those lines yes? Perhaps his memories were what was erased, rather than him. *shrugs* Just an idea.

1. What is erased?
2. Had Ven been "erased" [though I think this is just a japanese term and won't apply here in america] how would his heart go into Sora? Ven isn't a princess of heart, so there is darkness in his heart. His heart would have gone to Kingdom Hearts, or whatever the place is called in BBS where hearts go after they leave the body.

A. Well that doesn't exactly apply to Roxas at the beginning of the game now does it? Roxas didn't remember anything at the beginning of Kh2. Let alone emotion. For him to "emulate" emotion, he would most likely have to remember being a nobody in the first place. Because my bet is that "emulating" emotion feels significantly different than actually feeling it. Anybody would be able to tell the difference.

Even if he doesn't know he's a nobody, he's still a nobody. Meaning he thought he was a regular person, therefore able to access his emotions due to the fact of Sora and Nomura's comment. He had no memories, that doesn't mean he didn't remember emotions. You forget that emotions isn't just heart. It's partially soul.

B. From what we've seen, the only time emotions seemed to be instigated from Sora is when Roxas is provoked. Like when Riku mocks his fighting, or when Roxas gets in contact with Kairi. Any other was just regular old feeling. Like feeling sorry when he made Hayner and the gang angry.

Nobodies don't have real emotions; this includes Roxas because he is a nobody. They remember emotions, this includes Roxas because emotions aren't memories. Notice how all of the younger members emote, save for Zexion?

So you mean to tell me that when Axel shouted "I'm so FLATTERED!" you thought he was faking anger?
Or when Demyx lost to Sora, that you didn't think his dispair was real?
Or Saix's, despite his lack of personality, plea for his heart.

Faking? You have no idea what a nobody is.

Correction, for anybody who looks at things in a different way and has their own opinion about what things mean. Be they wrong or right. Nobody knows.

Had Sora been housing Ven's heart, it would have created a third nobody separate from Roxas. They're not the same person. They never were.

Yes I do, thank you. But you have to think, if anyone who referred to Roxas as a nobody didn't know about Ven, then of course they would think that Roxas is pure nobody, and if you use the whole "Well he fused back with Sora," argument, then think. If Ven's heart was originally with Sora, then clearly it wasn't strong enough to exist alone, or it didn't have a body to go to, as Kairi's didn't, and would easily go back with Sora. That's what I meant.

See comment above. 3 nobodies.

You said that in response to UrbanQuattrus saying that Ven's heart COULD be with Roxas, signifying (to me at least) that you thought that meant simply having Ven's heart made Roxas Ven. That isn't what UQ meant. I said that Sora had Kairi's heart statement to show that that isn't what he meant.

No, I was merely stating that they are different people.

Nomura even indirectly referred to Ven and Roxas as separate people. I still wonder why people think that Roxas is Ven? The only think between them is that they look alike and they both have Keyblades.
 
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PMF. You're trying to assert that a theory is impossible, while The Twilight Prince is maintaining the validity of it. In other words, it's plausible, it's possible, but we can't say it's true. And you cannot say that it can't be true. You offer no proof. The circuitous evidence you have provided is vague at best (if it can be considered evidence). Just prove right now that the theory is impossible, in one post, with clear, concise, definite proof, and we can stop. I think it's just a matter of you not liking it. I don't like the idea that, say, DS is the Xehanort we know, but I'm not going to disregard it.
 

Genocide

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PMF. You're trying to assert that a theory is impossible, while The Twilight Prince is maintaining the validity of it. In other words, it's plausible, it's possible, but we can't say it's true. And you cannot say that it can't be true. You offer no proof. The circuitous evidence you have provided is vague at best (if it can be considered evidence). Just prove right now that the theory is impossible, in one post, with clear, concise, definite proof, and we can stop. I think it's just a matter of you not liking it. I don't like the idea that, say, DS is the Xehanort we know, but I'm not going to disregard it.

Question.

What happens when a strong hearted person loses their heart in the post BBS era?
 

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I just wanted to say... We know that, from a way, Ven and Roxas are connected.
A lot of things in KH is around the heart...
We know Sora was an existence of solely heart while Roxas had his body and his soul...
So, what is the possible things which can connects them...? Not the soul or the body, we know Roxas has Sora's one.
We also know a heart modify the appearance of a person...
So the theory of Roxas having Ven's heart is solid enough. Except if we can find another way to connect them, until then, this theory is good.
 
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