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Theory about Roxas(KH II and Final Mix+ Mentioned)



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The Twilight Prince

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The PMF teaches all who wish to learn

It's not so much teaching as it is your own ideas you assume are fact. Either way, i'm willing to hear.

They hadn't been erased, just reshuffled. The chains of his memory was shuffled. So that makes CoM another you didn't factor in.

Whether they were erased or reshuffled, the bottom line is, he didn't remember his being a nobody. You miss my point. Are you saying that feeling genuine emotion would be the exact same as faking it? To repeat myself. Anybody could tell that difference.

1. What is erased?
2. Had Ven been "erased" [though I think this is just a japanese term and won't apply here in america] how would his heart go into Sora? Ven isn't a princess of heart, so there is darkness in his heart. His heart would have gone to Kingdom Hearts, or whatever the place is called in BBS where hearts go after they leave the body.

I'm not saying his memory being erased caused his heart to go to Sora. I'm saying that his memory being erased could contribute to the fact that Roxas can't access Ven's memory, because it isn't there, or tampered with somehow to prevent such a thing from happening.

Even if he doesn't know he's a nobody, he's still a nobody. Meaning he thought he was a regular person, therefore able to access his emotions due to the fact of Sora and Nomura's comment. He had no memories, that doesn't mean he didn't remember emotions. You forget that emotions isn't just heart. It's partially soul.

You say right there in your post that he had no memories, yet earlier you chastised me for saying the same thing, stating that Roxas' memories were merely "reshuffled". Why do you change it here? That makes no sense. If emotions were partially soul, then the nobodies could feel genuine emotion rather than emulating it as you said. You're contradicting your previous posts.

Nobodies don't have real emotions; this includes Roxas because he is a nobody. They remember emotions, this includes Roxas because emotions aren't memories. Notice how all of the younger members emote, save for Zexion?

Xigbar "emotes" as well, along with Larxene being a royal bi*ch. I realize that they all don't have real emotions. You're contradicting yourself yet again. In the post above you said the emotions are part of the soul, which would mean the nobodies would have some emotion, if just very little.

So you mean to tell me that when Axel shouted "I'm so FLATTERED!" you thought he was faking anger?
Or when Demyx lost to Sora, that you didn't think his dispair was real?
Or Saix's, despite his lack of personality, plea for his heart.

Faking? You have no idea what a nobody is.

By faking I mean they are emulating because they remember. My apologies for mis-wording that. A nobody is a being created when a person becomes a heartless, human nobodies are created from strong hearted people. Nobodies cannot actually feel emotion but remember what it was like and so they act as if they do to deceive their foes, and technically, they don't truly exist, as they are merely the body and soul of the person who became a heartless.

Yes. I actually really do.

Had Sora been housing Ven's heart, it would have created a third nobody separate from Roxas. They're not the same person. They never were.

You forget the theory of Ven being a kind of Prince of Heart, which is another theory going around. Or his heart being important in some way similar to the PoH. If that were true, then it wouldn't necessarily create another nobody, as those hearts are pure. Maybe Ven's is just pure. I realize that they aren't the same person. Never said they were. I said that Ven's heart COULD reside with Roxas, and at one time rested with Sora, as Kairi's did.

See comment above. 3 nobodies.

As Grace Assassin have said multiple times. You know NOTHING more than anyone else. You have no reason to act as if you do and say what you're thoughts are are fact. Because they are far from it. They COULD be, but so could mine. Nobody knows and nobody will until the games come out.

No, I was merely stating that they are different people.

Nomura even indirectly referred to Ven and Roxas as separate people. I still wonder why people think that Roxas is Ven? The only think between them is that they look alike and they both have Keyblades.
[/QUOTE]

Thank you. I knew this. Misunderstood your first post to UQ then. My apologies.
 

Genocide

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It's not so much teaching as it is your own ideas you assume are fact. Either way, i'm willing to hear.

I do that? I never thought of it like that. I always thought I just self glorify.

Whether they were erased or reshuffled, the bottom line is, he didn't remember his being a nobody. You miss my point. Are you saying that feeling genuine emotion would be the exact same as faking it? To repeat myself. Anybody could tell that difference.
I don't think that. I think that it's a very complicated thing to sum up for just this debate. It would take a whole theory to actually explain what I mean.

You say right there in your post that he had no memories, yet earlier you chastised me for saying the same thing, stating that Roxas' memories were merely "reshuffled". Why do you change it here? That makes no sense.

We all know Roxas had no memories. What I meant was that he remembers emotions depite not having any memories.

If emotions were partially soul, then the nobodies could feel genuine emotion rather than emulating it as you said. You're contradicting your previous posts.

I actually figured you'd just pick up on what I meant.

I tried to tie the soul thing into what Nomura says. It would be logical. That the soul is the tool through which they can access these semi emotions to emote.

Xigbar "emotes"

When? All I saw from the Xigman was smugness. That deals more with personality over emotions.

as well, along with Larxene being a royal bi*ch.

She would be considered one of the younger members I mentioned earlier.

I realize that they all don't have real emotions. You're contradicting yourself yet again. In the post above you said the emotions are part of the soul, which would mean the nobodies would have some emotion, if just very little.

The emotions accessed by the soul wouldn't be the real emotions because real emotions come from the heart; BUT the soul can remind them of said emotion they want to display.

So they have emotions, just not real ones.

By faking I mean they are emulating because they remember. My apologies for mis-wording that.

I picked up on that. That's what I'm trying to convey, but it's not coming out correctly.

A nobody is a being created when a person becomes a heartless, human nobodies are created from strong hearted people. Nobodies cannot actually feel emotion but remember what it was like and so they act as if they do to deceive their foes

technically, they don't truly exist, as they are merely the body and soul of the person who became a heartless.

By whose standards? The standards of DiZ who's biased against all nobodies?

Yes. I actually really do.

I think my message was mixed up here.

You forget the theory of Ven being a kind of Prince of Heart

Which is still just a theory. Even if under those circumstances, Roxas wouldn't have Ven's heart.

Or his heart being important in some way similar to the PoH.

POH were an already pre-existing concept of the Disney enterprise, but not named such. They were just the "Disney Princesses". A prince of heart would just be a weak attempt to incorporate something new that they can't go back and write over.

If that were true, then it wouldn't necessarily create another nobody, as those hearts are pure. Maybe Ven's is just pure.

Had Ven's heart been pure, it would have migrated to a vessel where it was released at, not into Roxas who was not even in the same realm. Example: Kairi.

I realize that they aren't the same person. Never said they were. I said that Ven's heart COULD reside with Roxas, and at one time rested with Sora, as Kairi's did.

This is the only thing that we agree on. Ven =/= Roxas.

As Grace Assassin have said multiple times. You know NOTHING more than anyone else. You have no reason to act as if you do and say what you're thoughts are are fact. Because they are far from it. They COULD be, but so could mine. Nobody knows and nobody will until the games come out.

Even still, yours are more of a what if scenario while mine are based on things that makes sense based on what has happened so far.

Thank you. I knew this. Misunderstood your first post to UQ then. My apologies.

We all know the truth. Roxas is really "that one guy who lost his heart in KH1 when Sora got to Traverse Town" in disguise.
 

The Twilight Prince

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I do that? I never thought of it like that. I always thought I just self glorify.

Either way, it comes across as you thinking it's fact, which it's not. If it's nothing but self-glorification, then I have no say in that, but it just sounds as if you're telling others that what you say is fact, when it's not.


I don't think that. I think that it's a very complicated thing to sum up for just this debate. It would take a whole theory to actually explain what I mean.

Same here. And it would take much thinking. I'm not too great with wording things, in case you haven't noticed. I mess up and forget things a lot, thinking I have to do it fast.

We all know Roxas had no memories. What I meant was that he remembers emotions depite not having any memories.

Well yeah. His reshuffled memories make him think of course that he is just a normal kid, and henceforth, he has no reason to think anything strange of his emotions.

I actually figured you'd just pick up on what I meant.

I tried to tie the soul thing into what Nomura says. It would be logical. That the soul is the tool through which they can access these semi emotions to emote.

I suppose that COULD be. But if that were true, then you would think that all members would show some kind of emotion sometimes. Whether it was intentional or not.

When? All I saw from the Xigman was smugness. That deals more with personality over emotions.

Well he laughed at Sora upon their first meeting in RG. "Hahahaha. That's RIGHT. He used to give me that same exact look!" and he's very cocky at times as well, which all ties in to showing emotion. Personality and emotions are closely related in certain ways.

She would be considered one of the younger members I mentioned earlier.

Vexen is an older looking guy. And he is genuinely scared of Marluxia on multiple occasions. It's not a matter of older younger, it's simply the personality you mentioned earlier. And how I mentioned that Personality and emotion are closely related.

The emotions accessed by the soul wouldn't be the real emotions because real emotions come from the heart; BUT the soul can remind them of said emotion they want to display.

So they have emotions, just not real ones.

Well then using that sense, it's more like they just remember the emotions, and convey them as they see fit. Not particularly the "soul" that reminds them, but their memory.

I picked up on that. That's what I'm trying to convey, but it's not coming out correctly.

Same here. It's hard to describe.

By whose standards? The standards of DiZ who's biased against all nobodies?

Yen Sid's as well. And he isn't biased in any way, as far as we know. "An empty shell that's left behind..for you see nobodies do not truly exist at all."

I think my message was mixed up here.

What'd ya mean exactly then?

Which is still just a theory. Even if under those circumstances, Roxas wouldn't have Ven's heart.

POH were an already pre-existing concept of the Disney enterprise, but not named such. They were just the "Disney Princesses". A prince of heart would just be a weak attempt to incorporate something new that they can't go back and write over.

Oh my. Another thing we agree on. The Prince of Heart bit. See. I don't think he's so much a "Prince of Heart" as I do that his heart is pure or important or something along those lines. Yknow?

Had Ven's heart been pure, it would have migrated to a vessel where it was released at, not into Roxas who was not even in the same realm. Example: Kairi.

I don't think it "migrated" so much as it kinda stuck with Roxas when the nobody was created. Like. Sora's body and Soul was left behind as Roxas but with it, it took Ven's heart. You see what I mean?

This is the only thing that we agree on. Ven =/= Roxas.

Yep. I'm absolutely sick of people saying that along with that "Ven is ttly soraz dad!1!!!111" or brother. Or something. Effing dumb.

Even still, yours are more of a what if scenario while mine are based on things that makes sense based on what has happened so far.

Mine make sense, just not to you. Clearly they make sense to others who believe this theory as well. Like I said. It's all about a different way of looking at things. Nothing more. Nothing less.

We all know the truth. Roxas is really "that one guy who lost his heart in KH1 when Sora got to Traverse Town" in disguise.
[/QUOTE]

=O! OHEMGEE! he ttly izzzz.

No. Thank you. *kills all Roxas=Ven believers*
 
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Correct.

Now if Generic Keyblader A had 2 hearts within him when he released his heart, what would happen?

Ah, now I see where you're going with this.

Well, one would think that two Nobodies would be made. And that's technically what happened with Sora. However, I recommend you go back and read my post on Namine. So there's absolutely no pattern as to what truly happens. If 'Generic' Keyblader has three hearts in him, we cannot profess to know the result of letting those hearts out especially considering that the circumstances are unknown.

You're basing your argument on the premise that Roxas and Ven are two different people. And that's correct. But I think you're having a heart time distinguishing some things. Roxas and Sora are two different people, and yet Roxas is essentially Sora. Roxas would be the combination of Ven's heart with Sora's body and soul. Still different.

Remember, I'm not saying this theory is right or even that I believe it. I'm pointing out that it's valid.
 

The Twilight Prince

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Ah, now I see where you're going with this.

Well, one would think that two Nobodies would be made. And that's technically what happened with Sora. However, I recommend you go back and read my post on Namine. So there's absolutely no pattern as to what truly happens. If 'Generic' Keyblader has three hearts in him, we cannot profess to know the result of letting those hearts out especially considering that the circumstances are unknown.

You're basing your argument on the premise that Roxas and Ven are two different people. And that's correct. But I think you're having a heart time distinguishing some things. Roxas and Sora are two different people, and yet Roxas is essentially Sora. Roxas would be the combination of Ven's heart with Sora's body and soul. Still different.

Remember, I'm not saying this theory is right or even that I believe it. I'm pointing out that it's valid.

Exactly. I second everything Grace Assassin says. Save for I lean more towards believing the theory, but he's right about it's validity. He's better at wording what i'm thinking than I am. And that says something. But that's precisely my point. Ven's heart attached itself with the Sora's body and soul, thus why Roxas is identical to Ven and why Roxas seems to show emotion.
 

Genocide

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Well he laughed at Sora upon their first meeting in RG. "Hahahaha. That's RIGHT. He used to give me that same exact look!" and he's very cocky at times as well, which all ties in to showing emotion. Personality and emotions are closely related in certain ways.

Yes, but they are nowhere near the same. The emotions you display are a reflection of your personality, but that's about it.

Like Larxene = Sadistic therefore she's really moody, or a total bitch.

Vexen is an older looking guy. And he is genuinely scared of Marluxia on multiple occasions. It's not a matter of older younger, it's simply the personality you mentioned earlier. And how I mentioned that Personality and emotion are closely related.

I knew I forgot someone. Vexen is the only older member, to me, that seemed to emote

What'd ya mean exactly then?

The answer would tie into the theory mentioned earlier.

I don't think it "migrated" so much as it kinda stuck with Roxas when the nobody was created. Like. Sora's body and Soul was left behind as Roxas but with it, it took Ven's heart. You see what I mean?

This is the only thing in which we cannot agree.

Let's say that Ven's heart is pure, for this example only. Pure hearts will not leave the world of light. If anything, they'll attach themselves to someone, or go to Kingdom Hearts. However, because of Ven's pure heart, the nobody would be born from Sora's heartless; ie Namine.

A pure heart cannot leave the realm of light. Roxas was never in the realm of light. He instantly woke up in Twilight Town, which we all know is not in the realm of light as confirmed by Nomura.

And there is no teleporting for just a heart. Beings of light can't use corridors of darkness, as confirmed by Nomura. And a lone heart with no vessel, travelling down the corridors of darkness? That thing would get eaten before a minute lapsed.

So, with not only the spatial distance in mind, Roxas is in a completely different realm in which Ven's pure heart could not follow.

On top of that, a third nobody would be born causing mass mix-up. But seeing as how that nothing has been said about an additional male member, I'm more inclined to think that Ven doesn't have a nobody.

Mine make sense, just not to you. Clearly they make sense to others who believe this theory as well. Like I said. It's all about a different way of looking at things. Nothing more. Nothing less
I have a nasty habit of saying something without explaining it, and expecting everyone to get it. That's kind of what I did with you.

=O! OHEMGEE! he ttly izzzz.

No. Thank you. *kills all Roxas=Ven believers*

Stabs all:

Axel=Riku
Axel=Terra
Riku=Terra
Saix=Terra
Zutara
Spoiler Spoiler Show


believers
 
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Let's say that Ven's heart is pure, for this example only. Pure hearts will not leave the world of light. If anything, they'll attach themselves to someone, or go to Kingdom Hearts. However, because of Ven's pure heart, the nobody would be born from Sora's heartless; ie Namine.

A pure heart cannot leave the realm of light. Roxas was never in the realm of light. He instantly woke up in Twilight Town, which we all know is not in the realm of light as confirmed by Nomura.

And there is no teleporting for just a heart. Beings of light can't use corridors of darkness, as confirmed by Nomura. And a lone heart with no vessel, travelling down the corridors of darkness? That thing would get eaten before a minute lapsed.

So, with not only the spatial distance in mind, Roxas is in a completely different realm in which Ven's pure heart could not follow.

On top of that, a third nobody would be born causing mass mix-up. But seeing as how that nothing has been said about an additional male member, I'm more inclined to think that Ven doesn't have a nobody.

Did you altogether ignore my post? I might as well comment on this, but I suggest you go read it.

A pure heart stays in the realm light, but a pure heart within a being can go anywhere, as seen with Kairi. The idea is that Ven's heart doesn't separate from the body and soul. In this case, the heart is not alone, it's with a body and soul, and wouldn't be devoured. In any case, a strong heart can withstand dark corridors, even those that are light. This includes Sora, Mickey, and the Beast.
 

The Twilight Prince

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Yes, but they are nowhere near the same. The emotions you display are a reflection of your personality, but that's about it.

Like Larxene = Sadistic therefore she's really moody, or a total bitch.

Yes, but if that is true, that completely contradicts what a nobody is. Because be they not full emotion or not, assuming your sentence about personality holds true, then they do have some form of emotion, whether or not it's full or not. But nobodies are supposed to have NO emotion. Only remember what it was like and pretend.

I knew I forgot someone. Vexen is the only older member, to me, that seemed to emote

You could also say that Marluxia showed some emotion during the final battle in Re:CoM when he's reaching out his hand in Sora's direction with a significantly sad look on his face. And he's not super young.

This is the only thing in which we cannot agree.

Let's say that Ven's heart is pure, for this example only. Pure hearts will not leave the world of light. If anything, they'll attach themselves to someone, or go to Kingdom Hearts. However, because of Ven's pure heart, the nobody would be born from Sora's heartless; ie Namine.

A pure heart cannot leave the realm of light. Roxas was never in the realm of light. He instantly woke up in Twilight Town, which we all know is not in the realm of light as confirmed by Nomura.

And there is no teleporting for just a heart. Beings of light can't use corridors of darkness, as confirmed by Nomura. And a lone heart with no vessel, travelling down the corridors of darkness? That thing would get eaten before a minute lapsed.

So, with not only the spatial distance in mind, Roxas is in a completely different realm in which Ven's pure heart could not follow.

On top of that, a third nobody would be born causing mass mix-up. But seeing as how that nothing has been said about an additional male member, I'm more inclined to think that Ven doesn't have a nobody.

See. You misunderstand me. I don't mean that Roxas found himself in Twilight Town and Ven's heart followed him there. I mean that Ven's heart was with Roxas when he found himself there. It was WITH Roxas upon Roxas' creation. It was within Sora, and since it had no body of it's own, it attached itself to Sora's nobody, causing it to look just like Ven. Thus, the Roxas Ven twin factor.


have a nasty habit of saying something without explaining it, and expecting everyone to get it. That's kind of what I did with you.

Gotcha. Goes with my nasty habit of wording things shi*ty.

Stabs all:

Axel=Riku
Axel=Terra
Riku=Terra
Saix=Terra
Zutara
Spoiler Spoiler Show


believers

*grabs a gun and shoots their dead corpses to ensure their death* They'll be back as Zombies PMF. Trust me. Our fight shall never be over. Least not till proof. Let that proof be our headshot to those rotten theory zombies.
 

Genocide

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Did you altogether ignore my post? I might as well comment on this, but I suggest you go read it.

I did not ignore you. I didn't know you posted.

A pure heart stays in the realm light, but a pure heart within a being can go anywhere, as seen with Kairi. The idea is that Ven's heart doesn't separate from the body and soul. In this case, the heart is not alone, it's with a body and soul, and wouldn't be devoured. In any case, a strong heart can withstand dark corridors, even those that are light. This includes Sora, Mickey, and the Beast.

You missed the point. For the heart to go into Roxas, it would have to been released from Sora. After which Sora disappeared from the realm of light himself. So neither Roxas, nor Sora were able to hold Ven's heart. From there, it could not move to another realm. It would either stay in RG/HB or go to Kingdom Hearts. The heart isn't in a being, there is no vessel for it to leech off of. Therefore Ven's heart can't be in Roxas.

Well, one would think that two Nobodies would be made. And that's technically what happened with Sora.

Truth. Seeing as how the leeching heart is pure, it cannot have a heartless, therefore cannot dissapear from the realm of light.

However, I recommend you go back and read my post on Namine. So there's absolutely no pattern as to what truly happens. If 'Generic' Keyblader has three hearts in him, we cannot profess to know the result of letting those hearts out especially considering that the circumstances are unknown.

Well, if Leeching Heart A [Kairi] and Leeching Heart B [Ven] are both pure of heart, neither heart would be able to rest themselves within a nobody.

You're basing your argument on the premise that Roxas and Ven are two different people. And that's correct. But I think you're having a heart time distinguishing some things. Roxas and Sora are two different people, and yet Roxas is essentially Sora. Roxas would be the combination of Ven's heart with Sora's body and soul. Still different.

They're different by perspective. When I look at Roxas, I see the same body and soul Sora used to fight heartless with in KH1 before the whole heart suicide thing. Is Roxas not the same body that Sora used to bathe when he was a child? Aren't those the same teeth he brushed? Aren't those giant hands the same ones he waved around swinging the Keyblade? You can address Roxas as a different person all you want, but if he'd kept his memory and never joined the Organization, do you know what his name would be?

Sora.
~

Okay, that aside. Back to my line of questioning.

So what happens to leeching heart B considering it is pure? It cannot cross the threshold from the realm of light to any other realm. What happens then?
 
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You missed the point. For the heart to go into Roxas, it would have to been released from Sora. After which Sora disappeared from the realm of light himself. So neither Roxas, nor Sora were able to hold Ven's heart. From there, it could not move to another realm. It would either stay in RG/HB or go to Kingdom Hearts. The heart isn't in a being, there is no vessel for it to leech off of. Therefore Ven's heart can't be in Roxas.
Since when? Give me proof that it would have to be released and then return to the body and soul. THAT would make no sense. I was suggesting it stays in the body, without separating. You're probably thinking of how Sora's body 'disintegrates' which would, presumably, separate the aspects of the being. But the soul and body maintain until another realm, so it would be no different in the case of that heart seeing as how it's more of a metaphysical process.

Truth. Seeing as how the leeching heart is pure, it cannot have a heartless, therefore cannot dissapear from the realm of light.
Unless within a body. Look where Kairi goes, the In Between and Dark Realms.

Well, if Leeching Heart A [Kairi] and Leeching Heart B [Ven] are both pure of heart, neither heart would be able to rest themselves within a nobody.
So what's your source on this? Looks like you dictate things more than you explain them. There's absolutely nothing against it. And, anyway, you've been digressing into a pure heart for Ven, which is really irrelevant (but I'm going along nonetheless).

They're different by perspective. When I look at Roxas, I see the same body and soul Sora used to fight heartless with in KH1 before the whole heart suicide thing. Is Roxas not the same body that Sora used to bathe when he was a child? Aren't those the same teeth he brushed? Aren't those giant hands the same ones he waved around swinging the Keyblade? You can address Roxas as a different person all you want, but if he'd kept his memory and never joined the Organization, do you know what his name would be?
His name has been and always will be, truly, Sora. That does not matter. He exists at the same time as Sora, acting as a separate being. They are the same, yet different. The only common thing that Roxas would share with Ven, in the case that the theory is correct, is the same heart. Different body and soul.

So what happens to leeching heart B considering it is pure? It cannot cross the threshold from the realm of light to any other realm. What happens then?
Already explained. All you're really doing is putting forth unjustified pseudo-logic that elicits a response in the form of a theory for the game, rendering it pointless.

I can't believe you're stubborn enough that you won't concede to the truth that a theory is plausible when you have nothing to say that would prove otherwise.
 

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Since when? Give me proof that it would have to be released and then return to the body and soul.

Since Kingdom Hearts 1. Anytime a heart leaves the body, it comes out. And is visible.

THAT would make no sense. I was suggesting it stays in the body, without separating. You're probably thinking of how Sora's body 'disintegrates' which would, presumably, separate the aspects of the being. But the soul and body maintain until another realm, so it would be no different in the case of that heart seeing as how it's more of a metaphysical process.

So you're saying that the heart doesn't separate from the body and soul? Have you even played KH1?

Unless within a body. Look where Kairi goes, the In Between and Dark Realms.

No darkness, therefore doesn't leave the realm of light.

So what's your source on this? Looks like you dictate things more than you explain them. There's absolutely nothing against it. And, anyway, you've been digressing into a pure heart for Ven, which is really irrelevant (but I'm going along nonetheless).

This is the variable that The Twilight Prince has been working under. He's trying to say that Ven is a Pronce of Heart with no darkness in his heart.

His name has been and always will be, truly, Sora. That does not matter. He exists at the same time as Sora, acting as a separate being. They are the same, yet different. The only common thing that Roxas would share with Ven, in the case that the theory is correct, is the same heart. Different body and soul.

They don't share a heart. It goes against what a nobody is. They don't have hearts. Roxas is no exception.

Already explained. All you're really doing is putting forth unjustified pseudo-logic that elicits a response in the form of a theory for the game, rendering it pointless.

I can't believe you're stubborn enough that you won't concede to the truth that a theory is plausible when you have nothing to say that would prove otherwise.

Psuedo-logic? Stubborn?

Okay, you obviously can't keep up, so I'll slow down:

Hearts are light. Hearts stay within the realm of light, unless within a vessel.

Sora unlocked his heart freeing the hearts within him. They left his body. This is assuming that Ven's heart is actually in Sora. It left too.

Being that Kairi is pure of heart, her heart simply relocated back to its original vessel.

Working under the assumption that Ven's heart is pure [as brought up by TTP, not me] it too would not leave the realm of light. There is no vessel for which it cannot move freely between the realms.

Sora's body leaves the realm of light only to be replaced by his heartless.

How can the heart be in Roxas if Roxas is not even in the same realm as the heart? It didn't follow Sora's body to the realm of darkness, and even if it did, it still wouldn't end up in Roxas because Roxas is not in the realm of darkness at this time.

So how is this Psuedo-logic? Why can't you accept the fact that you're plain out wrong? Just because Roxas look like Ven doesn't meant that his heart is in Roxas. Considering that your heart is who you are in the KH Universe, that would mean that Roxas = Ven, and last I check, Nomura said that you'll be able to distinguish one from the other. You know what that means? That they are separate people.

I can't believe you're willing to be wrong to prove that- no wait, if you're trying to prove me wrong, and I just proved me right then what are you trying to prove? Roxas' heart can't be in Roxas. It can be in Sora, but only after he returns to the realm of light.
 

The Twilight Prince

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Seeing as how my post wasn't replied to, I simply have this to offer. PMF, nobody in this is right or wrong. All Grace Assassin is trying to do is point out that this idea is plausible and in many ways it is. To YOU it might not be, but to many people, myself included, the way we who believe this theory look at things are different than the way you look at things. So in closing, there is no "winning" or "losing" here. I could be 150% wrong with what i'm saying, in regards to whether or not this theory is true, and you could be too. That's the thing. There's just no winner or loser here, that is. If that's what you're trying to do. There is no right or wrong on theories. That's why they're "theories". Not fact.
 

Genocide

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The Twilight Prince said:
See. You misunderstand me. I don't mean that Roxas found himself in Twilight Town and Ven's heart followed him there. I mean that Ven's heart was with Roxas when he found himself there. It was WITH Roxas upon Roxas' creation. It was within Sora, and since it had no body of it's own, it attached itself to Sora's nobody, causing it to look just like Ven. Thus, the Roxas Ven twin factor.

It wouldn't have been is Roxas in the first place.

For it to even remotely have to go to Roxas, it would have to leave Sora.

Okay, a pure heart is sitting in the realm of light. If said heart were to leave it's vessel, then it couldn't leave the realm of light.

Upon Roxas' creation, he was far away from the heart. The creation was instantaneous. And the heart wouldn't stay in Sora. Even if it did, it still wouldn't go to Roxas considering Roxas was nowhere near Sora.

You're still failing to explain how Ven's heart would be in Roxas.

plausible and in many ways

Still failing to see how. Ven's heart couldn't be in Roxas, it could be in Sora, but that's about it.
 

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It wouldn't have been is Roxas in the first place.

For it to even remotely have to go to Roxas, it would have to leave Sora.

Okay, a pure heart is sitting in the realm of light. If said heart were to leave it's vessel, then it couldn't leave the realm of light.

Upon Roxas' creation, he was far away from the heart. The creation was instantaneous. And the heart wouldn't stay in Sora. Even if it did, it still wouldn't go to Roxas considering Roxas was nowhere near Sora.

You're still failing to explain how Ven's heart would be in Roxas.

I've explained it multiple times. Either i'm explaining it badly or you're not getting it. No offense. Just saying. But you keep on taking this as

Roxas is created in Twilight Town. Heart follows.

What I am saying is that Ven's heart, being in Sora, and needing a body of it's own to go to as Kairi's had, went with Roxas, the only free body that was being created. I'm saying that Ven's heart was with Roxas WHEN he went to Twilight Town, not that it followed him there. Well you're failing to explain how it couldn't be. All you're saying is that the heart cannot travel through the realm of darkness, which I understand, and like I said. Ven's heart is doing no traveling in this scenario. What Kingdom Hearts rule is there that says that Ven's heart couldn't be within Sora, and then rather then just coming out and roaming around, it stuck with the body and soul left behind during heartless creation?

Now in theory, this would make Roxas a whole person, thus not being able to come back together with Sora. But remember. Whether Roxas has Ven's heart or not, he still is Sora's body and soul, and "holds half of what he is" and therefore would need to come together with him in the end anyways.

Still failing to see how. Ven's heart couldn't be in Roxas, it could be in Sora, but that's about it.

That's probably where it is NOW. Now that Roxas came back together with Sora. The basis behind this theory is that Ven's heart attached itself to Roxas upon his creation, thus giving Sora's nobody Ven's exact looks and making Roxas seem like he has a heart.
 

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Secret Ansem Report 10

Sora went to sleep in order to recover the memories he had lost in

Castle Oblivion. It would take quite some time to bring back all the memories he had created in his lifetime.

But Organization XIII held sway over Castle Oblivion. Sora would need to be kept someplace more secure.

I persuaded Naminé to move the slumbering Sora to Twilight Town for safekeeping.

Naminé.

As I have written before, she is a most unusual being.

Born of the same process as a Nobody, but lacking virtually al the elements of a Nobody.

Perhaps she continues drawing in hopes of capturing that which she lacks: the memories of others, especially Sora.

I have arrived at a hypothesis.

I believe that Naminé was born as a special type of Nobody when Sora attacked

himself with the Keyblade, causing his and Kairi's hearts to leave their bodies simultaneously.

Naminé emerged as Kairi's Nobody...but the body and soul necessary to exist as a Nobody belonged to Sora.

When a person's heart is stolen, a Heartless is born with no sense of self, and the body and soul left behind give rise to a Nobody.

But what if one willingly releases one's heart from one's body?

Sora and Xehanort retained their selfhood even after becoming Heartless.

Then there are Kairi and Naminé.

Kairi was exceptional for having had no darkness within her heart. Also exceptional was that her heart, once freed, migrated to a new vessel—Sora.
The combination of the two theoretically unlikely exceptions may be behind this anomaly.

There are matters I must attend to while Sora is sleeping.

A new ally has appeared on the scene: Riku.

Before you people move on I have a question that needs to be answered, first loot at what I highlighted. Having no darkness in her heart I understand cause she's a Princess of heart, what I don't understand is what would happen to her heart if Sora wasnt aroung? It says it is an exeption to Kairi inly that her heart migrated to a new body so then what does normaly happen to a Princess's heart rahter than this exeption?
 

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Yes, you do explain very badly.

The heart wouldn't be in Roxas when he woke up. For the heart to be in Roxas, that means it would have never left Sora in the first place. Which is contradictory to what ACTUALLY happened in KH1 where the hearts that lied within him came out of him when he impaled himself with the dark Keyblade.

I afraid we're going to have to look at this mathematically. Order of operations:

a=Sora
b=Kairi
c=Ven's heart
d=Sora's heart
e=Kairi's heart
f=Sora's heartless
g=Roxas
h=Namine
i=Ven's unnamed nobody.
j=darkness
k=Roxas with Ven's heart

At one point the equation was:

a+d+c+e

THEN the equation became:

a-c+d+e=f

if
e-j

then
e+b

at this point

-d=f

Now if
c-j

then
c+g

cannot =
k
~

I understand what you're saying. That Ven's heart stayed withing Sora until Roxas was created. THat makes no sense, you're saying that Ven's heart stayed withing Sora when Sora's heart, he was born with I might add, didn't sty in him. Why WOULD Ven's heart stay in Sora when Sora's OWN heart didn't stay in Sora.

This goes against KH1 itself.
 

The Twilight Prince

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Yes, you do explain very badly.

The heart wouldn't be in Roxas when he woke up. For the heart to be in Roxas, that means it would have never left Sora in the first place. Which is contradictory to what ACTUALLY happened in KH1 where the hearts that lied within him came out of him when he impaled himself with the dark Keyblade.

I afraid we're going to have to look at this mathematically. Order of operations:

a=Sora
b=Kairi
c=Ven's heart
d=Sora's heart
e=Kairi's heart
f=Sora's heartless
g=Roxas
h=Namine
i=Ven's unnamed nobody.
j=darkness
k=Roxas with Ven's heart

At one point the equation was:

a+d+c+e

THEN the equation became:

a-c+d+e=f

if
e-j

then
e+b

at this point

-d=f

Now if
c-j

then
c+g

cannot =
k
~

I understand what you're saying. That Ven's heart stayed withing Sora until Roxas was created. THat makes no sense, you're saying that Ven's heart stayed withing Sora when Sora's heart, he was born with I might add, didn't sty in him. Why WOULD Ven's heart stay in Sora when Sora's OWN heart didn't stay in Sora.

This goes against KH1 itself.

Again, no. I'm not saying Ven's heart stayed with Sora when his own didn't. Roxas was created when Sora became a heartless, no later, no eariler. So why doesn't it make sense that when Sora's heart left his body upon becoming a heartless, that Ven's, rather then leaving him, stayed with Roxas, not Sora. That way. Sora's heart left to Kingdom Hearts or wherever it went while Kairi's went back to her body while Ven's attached itself to Roxas. Why is that impossible? I didn't say Ven's heart stayed with Sora when Sora's heart didn't. I'm saying it went with Roxas when Sora's left.
 

Genocide

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Even still, Roxas was in the Twilight Realm. At the point that Ven's heart was released from Sora, him, his heart and Ven's heart were in the world of darkness.

Upon Sora becoming a heartless, Ven's heart would have clung to him, not Roxas as Roxas was nowhere near at the time; separated by realms.

In that instant, the pure heart would have been eaten and destroyed, not moved from the realm of darkess to the realm of twilight.

All of that took place in the world of darkness, so there'd be no way, nor any time, that the heart could go within Roxas.
 
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Since Kingdom Hearts 1. Anytime a heart leaves the body, it comes out. And is visible.



So you're saying that the heart doesn't separate from the body and soul? Have you even played KH1?



No darkness, therefore doesn't leave the realm of light.

All under the condition that the heart is lost in the first place. But, as it has been said, it would be that Ven's heart stays. You're sidetracking.


They don't share a heart. It goes against what a nobody is. They don't have hearts. Roxas is no exception.
Namine goes against what a Nobody is, but she's still a Nobody. She is not a body and soul. You've continued to ignore this fact. Axel addresses the potential of Roxas having a heart in the new scene, but it's not as though he was saying, "Oh, but that technically doesn't make you a Nobody so I must be wrong." WHY do you think they added that scene? To confuse the player and feed them BS? No, to create another mystery.


Psuedo-logic? Stubborn?

Okay, you obviously can't keep up, so I'll slow down:

Hearts are light. Hearts stay within the realm of light, unless within a vessel.

Sora unlocked his heart freeing the hearts within him. They left his body. This is assuming that Ven's heart is actually in Sora. It left too.

Being that Kairi is pure of heart, her heart simply relocated back to its original vessel.

Working under the assumption that Ven's heart is pure [as brought up by TTP, not me] it too would not leave the realm of light. There is no vessel for which it cannot move freely between the realms.

Sora's body leaves the realm of light only to be replaced by his heartless.

How can the heart be in Roxas if Roxas is not even in the same realm as the heart? It didn't follow Sora's body to the realm of darkness, and even if it did, it still wouldn't end up in Roxas because Roxas is not in the realm of darkness at this time.

So how is this Psuedo-logic? Why can't you accept the fact that you're plain out wrong? Just because Roxas look like Ven doesn't meant that his heart is in Roxas. Considering that your heart is who you are in the KH Universe, that would mean that Roxas = Ven, and last I check, Nomura said that you'll be able to distinguish one from the other. You know what that means? That they are separate people.

I can't believe you're willing to be wrong to prove that- no wait, if you're trying to prove me wrong, and I just proved me right then what are you trying to prove? Roxas' heart can't be in Roxas. It can be in Sora, but only after he returns to the realm of light.
It's not a matter of me keeping up so much as it is a matter of you having no idea what you're talking about. And yes, you're highly stubborn, and, no surprise, stubborn people usually are in the delusion that they are not. I'm presenting a neutral view through possibility, you're denying it.

Pure hearts stay in the realm of life if they are alone. Hearts in general do not. The Dark Keyblade unlocks hearts. By unlocking Kairi's, it set her heart free to migrate back to the original vessel. This process, in which a heart is set free, causes the creation of a Nobody. Now, in the supposed case where Ven's heart is pure, it would stay within the vessel, as unlocking a heart does not by any means suggest that the heart HAS TO LEAVE the body, as seen with MALEFICENT when her heart is unlocked. However, a pure heart does not create a heartless, as described by DiZ in the Secret Ansem Reports. Sora's heart is not pure, so it would be swallowed and subsequently create a heartless when it is left behind.

Very much pseudo-logic on your part. If you don't consider it a truth, but rather a theory on disproving another theory, then that would be fine. But all you're doing is extrapolating on the game's ideas blended with your own preconceived notions.

You're the only one wrong here. I am neither right nor wrong. You say something can't be possible that actually can, I'm saying that it can be possible but it's not necessarily actual.
 
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