The state of gamming and gammers

[Silverslide]

It's funny, gaming as an industry has started to gain more ground in terms of respect and merit, we have games like MGS4 and Heavy Rain to thank for that. But the more popular video games get, the more people come and enjoy them, obviously. Gamestop updated a status that asked "What's the most recent game you'd call an all-time classic?" I thought "oh cool, lets see what people think about this" By the time the page loads, the page was literallly littered with "black ops! or CODMW2!" I can't say I'm suprised but it got me thinking. Do you think that gaming as an industry will decline(if it hasn't already) when it gets more attention and more gamers? Because even though gaming has come along way, I think we are far away from a time where people will deadass consider gaming art.

 

[lilVon]

Yeah I saw the Gamestops status update as well, & personally I hope the industry begins to decline again, its peripherals like PS Move & the Kinect that makes gaming accessible to non gamers, & personally I'd prefer if more concentration & effort was put into more hardcore games than the shitty shovelware of the Wii & aforementioned peripherals.

 

[khphantom97]

Yeah I saw the Gamestops status update as well, & personally I hope the industry begins to decline again, its peripherals like PS Move & the Kinect that makes gaming accessible to non gamers, & personally I'd prefer if more concentration & effort was put into more hardcore games than the shitty shovelware of the Wii & aforementioned peripherals.

Valid points, but, if there weren't casual games, there wouldn't be hardcore games. There would be just "games". I guess we need the shovelware to appreciate the true "art". But, realistically, most developers and publishers only care about the demographic, which are either teenage boys, eight-year old children, and college kids who spend way too many hours on facebook. Though, there are games that come out every year or so that go above and beyond that, such as Portal 2, Uncharted 2, Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, which I know can be debated, God of War, going back to Super Mario Bros. I think that gaming is on a road that's good and bad. Before, in the 1990s, I guess, it was very neutralized. People were either happy with what they had, or didn't know what they wanted. The games then were all relatively level with each other, when it came to whether it was hardcore or casual. Now, it's either you are a casual gamer, mainstream gamer, or hardcore gamer. Same with games. Game development is going down two roads: extremely casual games (Angry Birds and other Apps), and extremely hardcore games (L. A. Noire, among others). But, there is also the mainstream game, which is seperated from the previous catergories, as they can be either of the two.

Basically, my point is that in the future, games are going to be frivolous games AND art, but must be decided on a case-by-case basis, as you can't call an entire medium art or not.

 

[Taylor]

Video games are not art and they should not strive to be.

 

[Hamster Lord]

Just wondering, but why do you think so?

 

[Shamdeo]

Videogames are intrisically artistic as are they sources of entertainment; they aren't merely artistry on a visual level, but artistry of the interactive experience. Dismissing it as just entertainment undermines the true aspirations of the medium DEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRP.

 

[Deleted member 36435]

only fucking scrubs play mw2 and cod

real hardcore gamers play heavy rain and mgs4

 

[Taylor]

1. The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.

I've yet to find a video game that can be genuinely appreciated primarily for beauty or emotional power that can be comparable to the works of great poets, painters, and filmmakers.

I'm not saying video games can't become art eventually, they just aren't right now. And I see that Silverslide mentioned MGS4 and HR, both of which are often seen as games that are a lot like movies. But games are not movies; they're much different. They're toys. They've sure come a long way, but they're not ever going to be comparable by the public to the works of great musicians and filmmakers and writers. And that's a major issue that a lot of game makers have: they try to make video games an artistic medium based on the comparisons made to other mediums because that's what the public sees art as. But video games will never be any sort of art on their own if they don't strive to do just that: be art on their own.

And even then, you'd be lucky if the general public accepted games as an artistic medium. So why strive?

 

[Solar]

I've yet to find a video game that can be genuinely appreciated primarily for beauty or emotional power that can be comparable to the works of great poets, painters, and filmmakers.

I'm not saying video games can't become art eventually, they just aren't right now. And I see that Silverslide mentioned MGS4 and HR, both of which are often seen as games that are a lot like movies. But games are not movies; they're much different. They're toys. They've sure come a long way, but they're not ever going to be comparable by the public to the works of great musicians and filmmakers and writers. And that's a major issue that a lot of game makers have: they try to make video games an artistic medium based on the comparisons made to other mediums because that's what the public sees art as. But video games will never be any sort of art on their own if they don't strive to do just that: be art on their own.

And even then, you'd be lucky if the general public accepted games as an artistic medium. So why strive?

idk man shadow of colosuss was pretty moving

also: thatgamecompany, their works seem to match the above description

 

[Taylor]

idk man shadow of colosuss was pretty moving

also: thatgamecompany, their works seem to match the above description

Even if gamers believe games are art (and they typically do) for the right reasons (i.e. because they're great interactive experiences, not because they're similar to "movie" quality), I don't think the industry will ever get video games to be seen as an artistic medium because when people look at video games, they see toys. Well-designed, fun, interactive, entertaining toys, but still toys.

 

[Hamster Lord]

thatgamecompany does indeed make beautiful games. I've only played the demo for Flower, but it was pretty damn awesome.

 

[Shamdeo]

I've yet to find a video game that can be genuinely appreciated primarily for beauty or emotional power that can be comparable to the works of great poets, painters, and filmmakers.

Well, you do play Pokemon, so I find this a fitting response.

 

[Taylor]

Well, you do play Pokemon, so I find this a fitting response.

well i mean those aren't the only games i play.....

 

[Solar]

Even if gamers believe games are art (and they typically do) for the right reasons (i.e. because they're great interactive experiences, not because they're similar to "movie" quality), I don't think the industry will ever get video games to be seen as an artistic medium because when people look at video games, they see toys. Well-designed, fun, interactive, entertaining toys, but still toys.

yup and they're entitled to

the definition of art is already subjective enough

 

[Silh]

I've yet to find a video game that can be genuinely appreciated primarily for beauty or emotional power that can be comparable to the works of great poets, painters, and filmmakers.

 

[Shamdeo]

Interactive media like video games is about designing an experience using skill, style, and mastery. These are the same experiences we have when we watch films or view paintings; they evoke some sort of stigma or response. The strawman argument that video games should only be sources of passing entertainment is a stagnating opinion that is holding this medium back. It's also used as another strawman argument against games like Heavy Rain in that it's too linear or that the experience "isn't video games" or other games who prioritize excellent graphics and visual experiences. It's still new though, and as with any type of interactive media, it still has loftier goals to aspire to. However I'm just sayin' that I'll take a developer that tries to do something new with the medium and redefine what a video game is over a developer who just wants to create a timewaster of an experience.

There are people that see games as passing entertainment like people who go to Hollywood blockbusters and there are those who appreciate it on a techinical and artistic level and can appreciate lesser known but more creative titles. I think this generally defines people better than "casual" or "hardcore".

 

[Ip Man]

I've yet to find a video game that can be genuinely appreciated primarily for beauty or emotional power that can be comparable to the works of great poets, painters, and filmmakers.

I'm not saying video games can't become art eventually, they just aren't right now. And I see that Silverslide mentioned MGS4 and HR, both of which are often seen as games that are a lot like movies. But games are not movies; they're much different. They're toys. They've sure come a long way, but they're not ever going to be comparable by the public to the works of great musicians and filmmakers and writers. And that's a major issue that a lot of game makers have: they try to make video games an artistic medium based on the comparisons made to other mediums because that's what the public sees art as. But video games will never be any sort of art on their own if they don't strive to do just that: be art on their own.

And even then, you'd be lucky if the general public accepted games as an artistic medium. So why strive?

Very valid point, however it's just your opinion. And being your opinion, just because YOU haven't found a game(s) that have that "beauty or emotional power" doesn't mean others haven't. I know I have.

MGS4 isn't one of them btw. That game was crap.

 

[Deleted member 36435]

And even then, you'd be lucky if the general public accepted games as an artistic medium. So why strive?

tip: the general public plays video games, and those that don't aren't relevant. There are plenty of people who believe that Van Gough's paintings are shitty and Mozart's music is garbage. That doesn't mean they are.

I've yet to find a video game that can be genuinely appreciated primarily for beauty or emotional power that can be comparable to the works of great poets, painters, and filmmakers.

You didn't appreciate a game like Warcraft III for it's emotion, or more importantly The Frozen Throne? The story in that game was beautifully told, and perhaps it's just me, and I felt a connection most characters. When Arthas took his father's life and betrayed Lordaeron I felt sad and disgusted with him.
Maybe it was because I was 12 when I played them but the Jak and Daxter series had a ton of emotion in it for me. Especially towards the end of them.

In fact I'd say video games are more art than movies or most music now-a-days. A ton of imagination and skill goes into designing these and the outcome is almost always magnificent. The fact that you gauge art on what the general public sees it as shows that you have no appreciation for it.

 

[Taylor]

Mother 3, I'd give you. But with SotC, I probably enjoyed the gameplay more than the beauty or emotion behind it.

 

[Silverslide]

MGS4 isn't one of them btw. That game was crap.

I think Vic Boss put it best.

There are plenty of people who believe that Van Gough's paintings are shitty and Mozart's music is garbage. That doesn't mean they are.