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The Persona Thread (Spin-offs galore!)



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kirabook

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You pretty much said what I said.

Persona 3 also happens in a city like environment. Instead of mental shutdowns, it was apathy syndrome constantly covered on the news. It was a result of normal people being attacked by shadows in the Dark Hour, not too dissimilar from somebody dying of a mental shutdown because their inner self was killed in the metaverse. Apathy syndrome also implied eventual death.

The final boss of Persona 3 was a global issue whereas P4 was mostly a small town issue and P5, while in Tokyo, still seems to have only affected the people in Tokyo. If the P3 crew lost, everyone in the whole world would've died (and they do in the bad ending)

That's why I think people with an even deeper knowledge of Persona than me are interested in the powers of the P5 crew. They have the power to change hearts... Which is exactly what the P3 crew needs.

Mitsuru is the leader of a shadow organization with the sole purpose of handling shadows. I feel she'd be one of the first to know about the P5 crew outside of Tokyo.
 
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AdrianXXII

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While this will never happen, ever since getting into this series, I liked the idea of a Persona (like) game featuring an lgbt+ cast. Self-exploration and acceptance is often part of their journey.
This would also fit well with the older cast a lot of people here have been asking for.
 

Ballad of Caius

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While this will never happen, ever since getting into this series, I liked the idea of a Persona (like) game featuring an lgbt+ cast.
I can see a member of the cast being LGBT+, but not the entire cast. Maybe a game or two from now, we could have an LGBT+ cast.
 

kirabook

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They implied Kanji from P4 was right? Bi at least?
Or was it truly just played up for jokes.
 

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I can see a member of the cast being LGBT+, but not the entire cast. Maybe a game or two from now, we could have an LGBT+ cast.

Why should we wait a game or two when P2 has already had LGBTQ+ rep. If anything, we should have had more rep in P3, P4, and P5. They almost had it in P4 before cutting it out even though it was all complete.

They implied Kanji from P4 was right? Bi at least?
Or was it truly just played up for jokes.

Certain people would probably say no Kanji wasn't bi just confused and really it was just society's toxic masculine views that made him equate non-manly hobbies = gay.

But as we know, people can tear down toxic masculinity and still be bi without it invalidating anything so Kanji is absolutely bi.

Also Yosuke was supposed to be a romance option, which imo would have been an interesting way to discuss internalized homophobia as a theme. His persistent homophobic comments throughout the game should have paved the way for some good dialogue options from the MC pushing against those views so Yosuke could recognize what he was doing, maybe reflect on why he felt that way...alas, Persona is good at poking at serious issues without actually addressing them in any meaningful manner (i.e. sexual harassment in P5 where it goes from an entire storyline about it to then proceeding to sexualize Ann lol)
 

kirabook

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Yeah... Persona kindaaaa has a problem with that. I mean, on the one hand they condemn and create storylines about how bad it is, but then they've got the guys being pervs anyway. They could tone it down so much sheesh.

Like, I love Junpei but my man, you gotta chill.
 

Soldier

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Why should we wait a game or two when P2 has already had LGBTQ+ rep. If anything, we should have had more rep in P3, P4, and P5. They almost had it in P4 before cutting it out even though it was all complete.



Certain people would probably say no Kanji wasn't bi just confused and really it was just society's toxic masculine views that made him equate non-manly hobbies = gay.

But as we know, people can tear down toxic masculinity and still be bi without it invalidating anything so Kanji is absolutely bi.

Also Yosuke was supposed to be a romance option, which imo would have been an interesting way to discuss internalized homophobia as a theme. His persistent homophobic comments throughout the game should have paved the way for some good dialogue options from the MC pushing against those views so Yosuke could recognize what he was doing, maybe reflect on why he felt that way...alas, Persona is good at poking at serious issues without actually addressing them in any meaningful manner (i.e. sexual harassment in P5 where it goes from an entire storyline about it to then proceeding to sexualize Ann lol)
But there WERE gay characters, like the two guys that pursued the MC and Ryuji in Shinjuku. It might not have been the best representation, but it was there....
 

kirabook

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When people want representation, they usually mean GOOD representation that isn't weird and creepy. Like, normal people.
 

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But there WERE gay characters, like the two guys that pursued the MC and Ryuji in Shinjuku. It might not have been the best representation, but it was there....

I don't want to call that representation when they were originally depicted as predatory towards teenaged boys and played for jokes.

I will give props to P5 for Lala, though. It still plays into a stereotype, but she was a good character.
 

Soldier

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I don't want to call that representation when they were originally depicted as predatory towards teenaged boys and played for jokes.

I will give props to P5 for Lala, though. It still plays into a stereotype, but she was a good character.
(Just for clarification, I'm not trying to start any wars/conflicts on here, just saying)
Well I'd argue that attempting to put representation into a franchise to fit the status quo rather than any actual interest in the subject is worse than under or negative representation. So many works nowadays have these traits now or older works are edited to have them (I'd mention J.K Rowling, but the last thing I'd want to do is give that WASP more lift in her wings) to better fit the time. Sometimes it works, and other times it's just pandering to an audience similar to how a politician panders to the people. It's kind of disgusting when you think of it.
 

kirabook

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An easy way to introduce positive LGBT representation is to just let the main character romance both genders. They almost did it with Yosuke as Spockanort said, they just chicked out last minute. Why CAN'T you romance Yusuke in Persona 5, he and the main character are MADE for each other (I'm exaggerating a little, but honestly all their interactions were hilariously awesome)

It's not like they show kissing and actual lewd stuff when you do romance one of the female characters so what is the problem? There really isn't one. Let the main character romance everyone just like you do with the girls.
 

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(Just for clarification, I'm not trying to start any wars/conflicts on here, just saying)
Well I'd argue that attempting to put representation into a franchise to fit the status quo rather than any actual interest in the subject is worse than under or negative representation. So many works nowadays have these traits now or older works are edited to have them (I'd mention J.K Rowling, but the last thing I'd want to do is give that WASP more lift in her wings) to better fit the time. Sometimes it works, and other times it's just pandering to an audience similar to how a politician panders to the people. It's kind of disgusting when you think of it.

It wouldn't be fitting the status quo or pandering if it was implemented as genuinely as it had been in the past, though. Persona 2 pushed the envelope by having Jun as a romantic interest with Tatsuya, but it never came off as forced.

You can argue with P3P Aigis and FeMC are technically a potential romantic couple since their storyline plays out exactly the same as it does with the male counterpart, but Atlus likes ignoring P3P's existence 90% of the time lol

P4 nearly having Yosuke as a romantic interest would have been a natural evolution of their friendship had they decided to stick to it (and when you hear the dialogue, you can tell it was very serious and meaningful, which made it all that much more upsetting that it was removed when it played directly into their established relationship).

P5 having a modicum of respect for the LGBTQ+ community shouldn't have to be something added in for the sake of adding it in to draw in a certain audience. P2 should not be more progressive than a game that came out 17 years later in an age where society recognizes and accepts the LGBTQ+ community a bit more.

I agree that no piece of media should ever add in anything if there is no real desire to do so because it will always come off as shallow, but genuinely negative representation is negative no matter what. Having predatory gay men is straight up reinforcing the idea of gay men being predatory, and that they are just a joke to laugh at. THAT is by far worse than soulless pandering.

An easy way to introduce positive LGBT representation is to just let the main character romance both genders. They almost did it with Yosuke as Spockanort said, they just chicked out last minute. Why CAN'T you romance Yusuke in Persona 5, he and the main character are MADE for each other (I'm exaggerating a little, but honestly all their interactions were hilariously awesome)

It's not like they show kissing and actual lewd stuff when you do romance one of the female characters so what is the problem? There really isn't one. Let the main character romance everyone just like you do with the girls.

Yes, I agree. It doesn't have to be so difficult. It's as easy as making all characters regardless of their gender romance options, and not having awful, harmful stereotypes. (Or if we take Catherine into account, very uncomfortable trans erasure and like...everything with Rin being a mess. They tried but they make a lot of missteps despite the effort they made. I like that they made Vincent bisexual and definitely point out how big of an asshole Vincent is prior to him accepting that, but then...aliens...like come tf on I'm exhausted y'all)

Also Ryuji and MC totally kiss in the anime.
 

Soldier

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An easy way to introduce positive LGBT representation is to just let the main character romance both genders. They almost did it with Yosuke as Spockanort said, they just chicked out last minute. Why CAN'T you romance Yusuke in Persona 5, he and the main character are MADE for each other (I'm exaggerating a little, but honestly all their interactions were hilariously awesome)

It's not like they show kissing and actual lewd stuff when you do romance one of the female characters so what is the problem? There really isn't one. Let the main character romance everyone just like you do with the girls.
They might not show it, but it is implied...
And we all know that Makoto is best girl in Persona 5, yeah I said it! Come at me!
 

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They might not show it, but it is implied...
And we all know that Makoto is best girl in Persona 5, yeah I said it! Come at me!

I have a Makoto button I wear at my part time job. Thank you for being a man of tastes. If I were not poor, I would have had a figure of her right next to my Naoto figure.
 

Soldier

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I have a Makoto button I wear at my part time job. Thank you for being a man of tastes. If I were not poor, I would have had a figure of her right next to my Naoto figure.
Ooh, If I had the nerve to do so, I'd purchase the Queen funko pop of her that's coming out soon. But due to my compulsion to own complete collections, that'd mean I'd own ALL of the phantom thieves.
 

AdrianXXII

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Honestly i think thematically lgbt+ narratives would really fit well. The only reason i can really think of why they've been skirting around this is that either they think it could be an issue in sales or they themselves have issues with the subject.

I just think with the whole palace and shadow concept it be a cool way to visualize the self exploration and acceptance a lot of lgbt+ people have to do.

Like i said it doesn't have to be Persona, it could also be a game inspired by the series.

Let the main character romance everyone just like you do with the girls.
I'd actually also suggest maybe even making some of the girls non-romantic options, cuz sometimes even, if you click really well people just aren't into you that way.
 

kirabook

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Yeah. This goes back to the "maybe everyone is a little TOO centered on the MC". I'm surprised there aren't more Junpei like characters who aren't romanceable cause they already got a girl (or boy). I so wish maybe relationships had a time limit so that they'd get with a different character or something.
 

AdrianXXII

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Oh i like that or have choices outside of the confidant storyline also impact the relationship. Like if you make a choice in the main story that character A doesn't approve of that could end any romance storyline with them.
 

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Putting in LGBT characters isn't a status-quo: it's a reality.

And I had forgotten about Yosuke being a romance option and all the previous instances of LGBT presence in the Persona franchise. And yes, Lala-chan was a very good character. She even deserved a character portrait.

Hell, gimme another Lala-chan in Persona 5 Vol. 2, 6 or whatever they end up making. Gimme party members and Social Links/Confidants.

In the society we live now, coming of age centered on LGBT issues should be a thing.
 

kirabook

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Persona 4 Arena Ultimax was announced for Steam and Switch I think.
I feel like... that's an odd choice. It's a sequel to Persona 4 and Persona 3, one of which isn't available to play on modern consoles. They're going to potential spoil new people even if PersonaAU doesn't come out and say exactly what happened in that game. Kinda a bummer.
 
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