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News ► SPOILERS Kingdom Hearts X[chi] - Meeting Skuld



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Ballad of Caius

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Why are we saying that they're Heartless? Like members have said, they're called Black Costumes and they don't seem to have a Heartless symbol, only what seems to be a crimson Recusant Sigil. Other than that, Pureblood Heartless don't have colored appearances. They're just dark with bright yellow eyes.

By the way, this game definitely has to take place in the Sleeping Worlds. There are Emblem Heartless everywhere in chi/Unchained, and assuming this game takes place in the distant past before the Keyblade War, then it's impossible for Emblem Heartless to have existed back then.

Granted, it wouldn't be the first retcon in the series, but I doubt this is a retcon, but more like an indirect hint about where chi/unchained really take place.
 

ShardofTruth

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Why are we saying that they're Heartless? Like members have said, they're called Black Costumes and they don't seem to have a Heartless symbol, only what seems to be a crimson Recusant Sigil. Other than that, Pureblood Heartless don't have colored appearances. They're just dark with bright yellow eyes.
That's just wrong: Shadow Stalker/Dark Thorn, Dark Hide and several of new Pureblood Heartless in chi/Unchained are more colorful than the rest. Maybe the Black Costumes have an emblem on their back but still they look Heartless through and through.

By the way, this game definitely has to take place in the Sleeping Worlds. There are Emblem Heartless everywhere in chi/Unchained, and assuming this game takes place in the distant past before the Keyblade War, then it's impossible for Emblem Heartless to have existed back then.
You contradict yourself, Heartless shouldn't be able to enter the Sleeping Worlds, that's why Dream Eaters exist in the first place.
 

The_Echo

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You contradict yourself, Heartless shouldn't be able to enter the Sleeping Worlds, that's why Dream Eaters exist in the first place.
Remember how the Heartless inside the journal in Re:coded were actually just data recreations of the Heartless described in the journal?

Early in the game, our Foreteller suspects that someone is drawing the Heartless into Daybreak Town.
The Foretellers use the Book of Prophecies to bring impossible worlds from the future to Daybreak Town.
Isn't it also suspected in the Back Cover trailer that the "traitor" may possess the Lost Page?

I have no doubts that this is all connected.
 

LightUpTheSky452

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What if Player is Sora? (Note that I don't want that to be the case, and I don't think it likely, but it's a theory I just came up with and I thought I'd share.)

Sometime Sora went into the Realm of Sleep again after DDD (though I doubt it would be when he went to thank the Dream Eaters that this would happen, but after that), or maybe even some time during KHIII.

The only thing, is that Sora did this after having released Roxas, Ventus, and Xion from himself. And Xemans turns out to be right:

All the personalities that had helped to make Sora up... He's now lost without them. And that's why he can no longer find himself (and somewhat lost his memory?), can't keep up his true form, or even speak?

(To add to this idea, maybe Sora hasn't released Xion from himself yet, but just the other two. And she's part of the reason he can be viewed differently--even as a girl--as we all know what Xion could do.)

But Sora, being Sora, he makes friends with these new people, and becomes invested in what's going on around him--thinking it as reality, even--and it's not until he bonds with others, that he's able to speak again and start to have his heart "wake up", so to speak.
 

Hirokey123

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Here is something that occurred to me Nightmare Chirithy called the power we use "fragments of the foreteller's power" alluding to how we draw our power from our cards/medals. But you know I find that interesting because that power is from the tome of prophecy not the book isn't it? Even if the foretellers made the cards technically that power comes from the book right? But maybe this answers something I've been wondering for awhile now....

What if those cards/medals actually contain memories from specific people, memories hold power and the power they hold belongs to the one the memories come from. That's how Sora's power could be transferred from person to person via his memories and how stripping his memories stripped him of his powers. If that's the case then who could have memories of things like Ice Titan, Sora, Eraqus, Xion, Namine, etc.... if you don't see where I'm going with this I bring you back the to line the "fragments of the Foreteller's power". That's right what I'm thinking is maybe all those cards are specifically memories that belong to the foretellers. It's their memories copied/produced into a card using the power of the book to do so. But there is another interesting thing were told the book lets us borrow the power of the future, that's what the cards/medals were described as initially which is why future people are on them. So then thinking about it, that would mean the foretellers have memories of the future.

Well I've come up with a slightly new variation of the foreteller identity theory as I'm forever skeptical of them being reincarnations. A form of TAVRK sure but just looking at the story and the writing reincarnation seems just like something Nomura wouldn't do, at least for this saga anyway.

Remember Xion? A girl with Sora's power who looked like Kairi all because Sora's memories got inside and changed her? My thought is the foretellers are beings like Xion. That is they are beings blank or otherwise who were infused with memories/contents from the book of prophecies to protect the book. See the physical book would still exist but its actual power would be held within the foretellers preventing people from corrupting/stealing/misusing it. The memories they were infused with belonged to either Terra, Aqua, Ventus, Riku, and Kairi respectively causing them to take on their forms and gain their powers, along with the power of the actual book of prophecies to summon its contents.
 

AurisFlown

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Here is something that occurred to me Nightmare Chirithy called the power we use "fragments of the foreteller's power" alluding to how we draw our power from our cards/medals. But you know I find that interesting because that power is from the tome of prophecy not the book isn't it? Even if the foretellers made the cards technically that power comes from the book right? But maybe this answers something I've been wondering for awhile now....

What if those cards/medals actually contain memories from specific people, memories hold power and the power they hold belongs to the one the memories come from. That's how Sora's power could be transferred from person to person via his memories and how stripping his memories stripped him of his powers. If that's the case then who could have memories of things like Ice Titan, Sora, Eraqus, Xion, Namine, etc.... if you don't see where I'm going with this I bring you back the to line the "fragments of the Foreteller's power". That's right what I'm thinking is maybe all those cards are specifically memories that belong to the foretellers. It's their memories copied/produced into a card using the power of the book to do so. But there is another interesting thing were told the book lets us borrow the power of the future, that's what the cards/medals were described as initially which is why future people are on them. So then thinking about it, that would mean the foretellers have memories of the future.

Well I've come up with a slightly new variation of the foreteller identity theory as I'm forever skeptical of them being reincarnations. A form of TAVRK sure but just looking at the story and the writing reincarnation seems just like something Nomura wouldn't do, at least for this saga anyway.

Remember Xion? A girl with Sora's power who looked like Kairi all because Sora's memories got inside and changed her? My thought is the foretellers are beings like Xion. That is they are beings blank or otherwise who were infused with memories/contents from the book of prophecies to protect the book. See the physical book would still exist but its actual power would be held within the foretellers preventing people from corrupting/stealing/misusing it. The memories they were infused with belonged to either Terra, Aqua, Ventus, Riku, and Kairi respectively causing them to take on their forms and gain their powers, along with the power of the actual book of prophecies to summon its contents.


Its quite possible your theory to be true, since I do remember a part where these Foretellers were given new names by the Master of Masters. Though, we don't know there names before having their current ones.
 

Axel92

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That black Chirithy talks exactly like Xeahnorth, while our Chirithy spaeaks more like Eraqus.
 

Sephiroth0812

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Remember Xion? A girl with Sora's power who looked like Kairi all because Sora's memories got inside and changed her? My thought is the foretellers are beings like Xion. That is they are beings blank or otherwise who were infused with memories/contents from the book of prophecies to protect the book. See the physical book would still exist but its actual power would be held within the foretellers preventing people from corrupting/stealing/misusing it. The memories they were infused with belonged to either Terra, Aqua, Ventus, Riku, and Kairi respectively causing them to take on their forms and gain their powers, along with the power of the actual book of prophecies to summon its contents.

While I applaud this theory on giving a more varied base towards the "identities" of the Foretellers and being in line with KH's own established mythos and lore, there's one thing that isn't explained and would require further investigation.
Xion having Sora's power and looking like Kairi due to Sora's memories was only possible to begin with due to Naminé breaking Sora's main chain of memories and the loose memories being absorbed into Xion through Roxas, Sora's Nobody.
Terra, Aqua, Ventus, Riku and Kairi never had their main chain of memories broken like that so there are no loose memories for the eventual Foretellers to absorb in the first place, not to mention that the catalyst to absorb the memories from (Roxas) is also missing.
Out of these five, only Ventus could have a possible catalyst with Vanitas and that's also iffy terrain.

---

Independent from all theories though, I'm still hoping that the Foretellers have nothing at all to do with TAV and Riku/Kairi.
When I hear statments like "we see Aqua and Terra fighting" in regards to Anguis and Ursus duking it out I get the urge to facepalm. They are NOT Aqua and Terra!
 

AurisFlown

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While I applaud this theory on giving a more varied base towards the "identities" of the Foretellers and being in line with KH's own established mythos and lore, there's one thing that isn't explained and would require further investigation.
Xion having Sora's power and looking like Kairi due to Sora's memories was only possible to begin with due to Naminé breaking Sora's main chain of memories and the loose memories being absorbed into Xion through Roxas, Sora's Nobody.
Terra, Aqua, Ventus, Riku and Kairi never had their main chain of memories broken like that so there are no loose memories for the eventual Foretellers to absorb in the first place, not to mention that the catalyst to absorb the memories from (Roxas) is also missing.
Out of these five, only Ventus could have a possible catalyst with Vanitas and that's also iffy terrain.


I don't think Hirokey123 meant in that direction. I thought it was going more with the fact that if this is in the past, those memories shouldn't exist in the first place but since the book had the power to bring worlds into that current time, then it's not that far-fetched to think that the master of masters could have created key people from the book of prophecies with some or none of their memories but similar to how nobodies react when they are born. If they have memories of someone yet act differently from them or they have no memories but act similar to how they react to their real selves.

Although, I'm adding my own theories into this now.

It quite possible the personalities of TAVRK was put into these Fortellers with or without Memories and act as any other Nobody would. And the best way to see how they react, would be to look at how the members of Organization 13 were acting before Sora stopped Xemnas. They either acted similar or different from their human selves.

Also, its just a theory that can be broken down into nothing once the next theory comes up.
 

The_Echo

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Independent from all theories though, I'm still hoping that the Foretellers have nothing at all to do with TAV and Riku/Kairi.
Amen.

I've been pretty quiet on the Rebirth theory but I might as well go on the record as 100% against.
I personally find no evidence to support the idea outside of matching color schemes, which is like... come on.

The only present-day character I expect to have a relation to the cast of χ[chi] is Xehanort, which is more or less confirmed anyway.
 

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Amen.

I've been pretty quiet on the Rebirth theory but I might as well go on the record as 100% against.
I personally find no evidence to support the idea outside of matching color schemes, which is like... come on.

The only present-day character I expect to have a relation to the cast of χ[chi] is Xehanort, which is more or less confirmed anyway.

glad I'm not the only one :p
 

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Amen.

I've been pretty quiet on the Rebirth theory but I might as well go on the record as 100% against.
I personally find no evidence to support the idea outside of matching color schemes, which is like... come on.

The only present-day character I expect to have a relation to the cast of χ[chi] is Xehanort, which is more or less confirmed anyway.
Huh, I'm not the only one who feels the same too.
 

Hirokey123

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While I applaud this theory on giving a more varied base towards the "identities" of the Foretellers and being in line with KH's own established mythos and lore, there's one thing that isn't explained and would require further investigation.
Xion having Sora's power and looking like Kairi due to Sora's memories was only possible to begin with due to Naminé breaking Sora's main chain of memories and the loose memories being absorbed into Xion through Roxas, Sora's Nobody.
Terra, Aqua, Ventus, Riku and Kairi never had their main chain of memories broken like that so there are no loose memories for the eventual Foretellers to absorb in the first place, not to mention that the catalyst to absorb the memories from (Roxas) is also missing.
Out of these five, only Ventus could have a possible catalyst with Vanitas and that's also iffy terrain.

---

Independent from all theories though, I'm still hoping that the Foretellers have nothing at all to do with TAV and Riku/Kairi.
When I hear statments like "we see Aqua and Terra fighting" in regards to Anguis and Ursus duking it out I get the urge to facepalm. They are NOT Aqua and Terra!

Perhaps I should be more clear.... Remember the journal? Sora was the catalyst of that book even though Jiminy was the one who wrote it ultimately all the memories for the most part within the journal belonged to Sora, it was a record of his events. This was a key as to why Data Sora's Heartless ultimately had so much power over it. In addition the journal held memories of people who were part of Sora which is why Data Roxas is a thing that exists even though he never was even slightly something hand written into the journal. I believe Mickey said it best "the journal isn't just a record it's a collection of all we felt, it's what's in our hearts". Ultimately none of these memories in the journal actually belonged to the journal but instead they belonged to the people and places that journal was written about.

So then comes book of prophecies which was compared to the journal by the game itself. It's highly plausible that the contents of the book are actually just a collection of memories that belonged to key people. In fact that's heavily implied given that all the worlds summoned are places we've been and all the cards/medals are characters we've seen with some you know official art thrown into the mix. My thought is that the book of prophecies is essentially a record of the lives of the guardians of light, a record of what was inside their hearts. Then its contents were transferred into those 5 followers transforming them into copies of TAVRK.

So Ursus had the contents of Terra's heart that was recorded into the journal transferred into him. Letting him take Terra's form and gain Terra's immense power which is also silently reflected in his keyblade, it looks kind of like Terra's and yet it's distinctly its own thing. So Ursus would look like Terra, sound like Terra, have Terra's powers, have Terra's memories, but ultimately would still be his own person.

Also the Master of Master is a grand keyblade master who can see the future I think it's plausible enough that he could divide the contents of the book among his apprentices.
 

Ballad of Caius

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Perhaps I should be more clear.... Remember the journal? Sora was the catalyst of that book even though Jiminy was the one who wrote it ultimately all the memories for the most part within the journal belonged to Sora, it was a record of his events. This was a key as to why Data Sora's Heartless ultimately had so much power over it. In addition the journal held memories of people who were part of Sora which is why Data Roxas is a thing that exists even though he never was even slightly something hand written into the journal. I believe Mickey said it best "the journal isn't just a record it's a collection of all we felt, it's what's in our hearts". Ultimately none of these memories in the journal actually belonged to the journal but instead they belonged to the people and places that journal was written about.

So then comes book of prophecies which was compared to the journal by the game itself. It's highly plausible that the contents of the book are actually just a collection of memories that belonged to key people. In fact that's heavily implied given that all the worlds summoned are places we've been and all the cards/medals are characters we've seen with some you know official art thrown into the mix. My thought is that the book of prophecies is essentially a record of the lives of the guardians of light, a record of what was inside their hearts. Then its contents were transferred into those 5 followers transforming them into copies of TAVRK.

So Ursus had the contents of Terra's heart that was recorded into the journal transferred into him. Letting him take Terra's form and gain Terra's immense power which is also silently reflected in his keyblade, it looks kind of like Terra's and yet it's distinctly its own thing. So Ursus would look like Terra, sound like Terra, have Terra's powers, have Terra's memories, but ultimately would still be his own person.

Also the Master of Master is a grand keyblade master who can see the future I think it's plausible enough that he could divide the contents of the book among his apprentices.

^^^ I REALLY like where your theory is going!! :D Are you trying to suggest that, maybe, the Foretellers are actually replicas a la Xion Master Xehanort made in order to fill in the ranks of his Xehanorganization...?! :O
 

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Just a thought (could or could not be related to the posts before xD): If we take that famous theory as fact or no, even easier, if we have really "elements" from the future here in Chi, the place of all of this happening is the Realm of Sleep.

Why? - Because this can't be the true events that caused the Keyblade War.

If the grand master really could see and use the future, then he should know that any action taken with the help of this sight of the future will lead to that "future/outcome" exactly.
TAV, SoKaRi etc. wouldnt face the future we know where they have to get strong and chosen by masters and blades in the initial real world Chi.

Conclusion: We use elements from the future to cause the future here in Chi. We have a loop, and looping events belong to the Realm of Sleep.
 

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What if Player is Sora? (Note that I don't want that to be the case, and I don't think it likely, but it's a theory I just came up with and I thought I'd share.)

Sometime Sora went into the Realm of Sleep again after DDD (though I doubt it would be when he went to thank the Dream Eaters that this would happen, but after that), or maybe even some time during KHIII.

The only thing, is that Sora did this after having released Roxas, Ventus, and Xion from himself. And Xemans turns out to be right:

All the personalities that had helped to make Sora up... He's now lost without them. And that's why he can no longer find himself (and somewhat lost his memory?), can't keep up his true form, or even speak?

(To add to this idea, maybe Sora hasn't released Xion from himself yet, but just the other two. And she's part of the reason he can be viewed differently--even as a girl--as we all know what Xion could do.)

But Sora, being Sora, he makes friends with these new people, and becomes invested in what's going on around him--thinking it as reality, even--and it's not until he bonds with others, that he's able to speak again and start to have his heart "wake up", so to speak.
I would got to Japan and throw my computer through square-enix's window.
 
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ShardofTruth

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^^^ I REALLY like where your theory is going!! :D Are you trying to suggest that, maybe, the Foretellers are actually replicas a la Xion Master Xehanort made in order to fill in the ranks of his Xehanorganization...?! :O
No, I think Hirokey means that the original Foretellers (before they got a new name) where infused by memories of TVARK to make them (better?) guardians of light in the same vein as Xehanort turns Nobodies like Xigbar or Saix into Xehanort copies.

I think this is actually a pretty clever idea that fits the theme and for all we know could be 100% right. This makes much more sense than the Rebirth theory.

Maybe the lost page was removed because it covered this information?

If the grand master really could see and use the future, then he should know that any action taken with the help of this sight of the future will lead to that "future/outcome" exactly.
TAV, SoKaRi etc. wouldnt face the future we know where they have to get strong and chosen by masters and blades in the initial real world Chi.
But maybe that's exactly what the Master of Masters was going for. We don't know any of his motives so far, only that the Chirithy are extensions of his will.
Looping elements don't necessarily only belong to the Sleeping Worlds. Xehanort used his time traveling powers to pull his younger self in the future and when he returned to the past he lost these memories but retained the desire to travel to other worlds which leads him onto the path we know.
 

Hirokey123

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I think both are plausible they could have been beings very much like replicas or they could just be regular apprentices who were infused with TAVRK's memories. Ultimately though this isn't too important a detail because the end result is the same you get a version of TAVRK with all their real power that is still their own person.

Honestly I stand by that the Master of Masters is the true villain behind this. What do we know about the past in hindsight? That the keyblade was not created to protect light rather it was intentionally created as an attempt to seize the X-blade for themselves. The fact is the X-blade nor Kingdom Hearts is present or mentioned at all in Chi yet which is extremely suspicious. There is also the matter on how the X-blade's existence summons Kingdom Hearts but we're told time and time again that during this era Kingdom Hearts was "unseen" which begs the question how could it be unseen if the X-blade's mere coming into existence forces it to appear?

My thought is this the Master of Masters saw into the future and saw both the X-blade and Kingdom Hearts, he saw how to forge it, and so he attempted to copy what he saw but ended up creating a keyblade instead. Knowing this he formed a plan, the details I'm not so sure on, but the whole point is ultimately he intentionally is setting the pieces up for the keyblade war in an attempt to forge the true X-blade. My thought is the real traitor was never a forteller or an apprentice it was the master of masters and he is the one stripped it of the pages that would reveal his plans. During this time of Chi the wielders think they are using their keyblades to fight for the protection of light but as we've seen somewhere along the way it stopped being about that, it became just a competition as Skuld pointed out. And we the real players having played the other games know the truth the people of chi have yet to figure out yet. That their keyblades are tools created not to defend but instead to conquer, created as both an attempt and a method at obtaining Kingdom Hearts.
 

The_Echo

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If the grand master really could see and use the future, then he should know that any action taken with the help of this sight of the future will lead to that "future/outcome" exactly.
O-oh no...
I thought it was strange that the Master of Masters created a Dream Eater, as a supposed real person from a past and world without them.

But now, I'm wondering if Xehanort has taken the Master of Masters' place in the dream recreation of these events
 

ShardofTruth

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Honestly I stand by that the Master of Masters is the true villain behind this. What do we know about the past in hindsight? That the keyblade was not created to protect light rather it was intentionally created as an attempt to seize the X-blade for themselves. The fact is the X-blade nor Kingdom Hearts is present or mentioned at all in Chi yet which is extremely suspicious. There is also the matter on how the X-blade's existence summons Kingdom Hearts but we're told time and time again that during this era Kingdom Hearts was "unseen" which begs the question how could it be unseen if the X-blade's mere coming into existence forces it to appear?

My thought is this the Master of Masters saw into the future and saw both the X-blade and Kingdom Hearts, he saw how to forge it, and so he attempted to copy what he saw but ended up creating a keyblade instead. Knowing this he formed a plan, the details I'm not so sure on, but the whole point is ultimately he intentionally is setting the pieces up for the keyblade war in an attempt to forge the true X-blade. My thought is the real traitor was never a forteller or an apprentice it was the master of masters and he is the one stripped it of the pages that would reveal his plans. During this time of Chi the wielders think they are using their keyblades to fight for the protection of light but as we've seen somewhere along the way it stopped being about that, it became just a competition as Skuld pointed out. And we the real players having played the other games know the truth the people of chi have yet to figure out yet. That their keyblades are tools created not to defend but instead to conquer, created as both an attempt and a method at obtaining Kingdom Hearts.
If the Master of Master's true plan is to forge the X-blade means at least two things for me:
1. Master Xehanort's Keyblade is truly his, meaning the sixth apprentice, which it probably was given to, is some sort of fail safe to continue the plan by imbuing his will on him.
2. If light and darkness have to clash that means besides Lux some sort of darkness is probably gathered too (Guilt maybe?) and the Black Costume group is also indirectly lead by the Master of Masters.

He could still be a good or least some sort "destiny has to happen" kind of guy, maybe his plans just backfired badly.
 
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