Science Screwed Itself Over

[SuperEclipse]

Science can prove CERTAIN things, the Bible can prove CERTAIN things. I'm guessing you've never read one (if you have then excuse me), so you can't say anything about it unless you've picked it up, read it several times, and tried understanding it. If you haven't, then you don't have a right to say that.

Yes I read it. If I wanted to I could make you eat you're own words.. But I don't want to cause any problems.

Jesus was real man, I agree. Lets say I tell story about me in the army taking on 4-5 man at once and I came out top. I pass it on to friend he pass it on then his friends pass it on.. The story goes form me fighting 4-5 man too 25-30 then as it goes on. It gets to something like ''This guy took on 100-200 man a once and won..

And i'm surprised yet again, someone is actually seeing SOMEWHAT of my point of view XD I warn you ViVi, agree with me, and your bound to get flamed XD I do appreciate the words, though.

This isn't flame it's a debate. Again if you think this flame then don't join any other forum plz.

Science as helped heal people save people as done alot for this world. More then I seen a god do.

 

[The Big Lovin']

Big Bang Theory - The Only Plausible Theory?
Is the standard Big Bang theory the only model consistent with these evidences? No, it's just the most popular one.

This kinda says that there was something small that was already here that much resembled our universe but grew to make what we know see and say is our true universe.

The beauty of science, no?

 

[Einon SAMA]

This is just a question...

Why is it that most of us feel that an explosion made itself explode over an entity makes something explode?

Honestly, which of the two make more sense? Last time I checked, that bomb that went off in OK didn't go off by itself...

I do undestand that science doesn't claim to know all of the answers, therefore I love and respect it, but really... Why does it decide to explode and what caused it? When will we get those answers and how will we begin to get them?

 

[The Big Lovin']

This is just a question...

Why is it that most of us feel that an explosion made itself explode over an entity makes something explode?

Honestly, which of the two make more sense? Last time I checked, that bomb that went off in OK didn't go off by itself...

I do undestand that science doesn't claim to know all of the answers, therefore I love and respect it, but really... Why does it decide to explode and what caused it? When will we get those answers and how will we begin to get them?

I'm guessing you didn't read Xemnas-sama's post. You might want to take a look at that. It gives the basics of the BB theory.

 

[Einon SAMA]

Oh okay... Will do..............

Read it...

Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense, something - a singularity. Where did it come from? We don't know. Why did it appear? We don't know.

which appeared out of nowhere for reasons unknown. This is the Big Bang theory.

I'll say.

Also, when I say explode or explosion while referring to the Big Bang. I mean "expansion".

It is a nice post, but it still leaves my question to you unanswered.. At which i've quoted in his post, no?

I know you can't answer them, but again, which makes more sense? Just a question!

 

[Phoenix]

I do undestand that science doesn't claim to know all of the answers, therefore I love and respect it, but really... Why does it decide to explode and what caused it?

Because I don't see the Vatican investing in telescopes and researching themselves.

When will we get those answers and how will we begin to get them?

We have a fair deal by now. We know the Universe is expanding, hence it had to be smaller in the past, proving the Big Bang right. Science has never claimed to have all the answers, that's why it's more trustworthy, it's based on it proving itself wrong, hence, they don't have to cover up anything or ignore data it doesn't like.

 

[Einon SAMA]

Because I don't see the Vatican investing in telescopes and researching themselves.

I don't see what that has to do with anything...

We know the Universe is expanding, hence it had to be smaller in the past, proving the Big Bang right

Proving the theory behind the Big Bang right... or just proving that an expansion occured?

 

[The Big Lovin']

Proving the theory behind the Big Bang right... or just proving that an expansion occured?

Expansion doesn't just all of a sudden occur.

 

[Phoenix]

Which makes more sense, energy being eternal or an unknown intelligence that spawned itself being eternal? I have to go with the energy. The "intelligence" one brings a whole new set of problems, like what thought processes does it use, does it learn, why did it choose *that* time to create, was it bored, is it alone, was it always intelligent, and so on, plus the original "problem" of it being eternal.

I myself don't use these to judge whether something's real or not, but it is the answer to your question.

In summary: eternal stuff seems more likely than eternal intelligent stuff.

Proving the theory behind the Big Bang right... or just proving that an expansion occured?

The expansion is the Big Bang. What did you think the Big Bang was?

 

[The Big Lovin']

Which makes more sense, energy being eternal or an unknown intelligence that spawned itself being eternal? I have to go with the energy. The "intelligence" one brings a whole new set of problems, like what thought processes does it use, does it learn, why did it choose *that* time to create, was it bored, is it alone, was it always intelligent, and so on, plus the original "problem" of it being eternal.

I myself don't use these to judge whether something's real or not, but it is the answer to your question.

In summary: eternal stuff seems more likely than eternal intelligent stuff.

But, then how'd we get here then? It couldn't possibly be by chance!

My sarcasm for the day.

 

[Phoenix]

I don't see what that has to do with anything...

Gah, missed this:

You asked why does science get to decide the who, the how and the when. I say it's because science is actually researching these, whereas the people who deny this are not.

 

[Einon SAMA]

Expansion doesn't just all of a sudden occur.

Thats my point exactly.

energy being eternal or an unknown intelligence that spawned itself being eternal? I have to go with the energy. The "intelligence" one brings a whole new set of problems, like what thought processes does it use, does it learn, why did it choose *that* time to create, was it bored, is it alone, was it always intelligent, and so on, plus the original "problem" of it being eternal.

I myself don't use these to judge whether something's real or not, but it is the answer to your question.

In summary: eternal stuff seems more likely than eternal intelligent stuff.

Eternal stuff over Eternal Intellegents, eh?

Well that leaves us with the problem of stuff doing ...stuff for no reason. Im down with an intellegent being doing something though... You?

 

[Phoenix]

Eternal stuff over Eternal Intellegents, eh?

Actually, it's eternal stuff over eternal stuff that happens to have intelligence. The adjective makes it seem less likely than plain stuff.

Well that leaves us with the problem of stuff doing ...stuff for no reason.

Actually, there are a number of reasons. You have my views on the subject, but...

Im down with an intellegent being doing something though... You?

... it's highly illogical to assume intelligence was involved anywhere just because we're missing a few gaps. We know mostly everything up to the point before the singularity (and I use the word "before" as loosely as possible), but assuming there was a Greater Being involved is just invoking the God of the Gaps. It's just wishful thinking. There is absolutely no reason to assume anything of the sort.

 

[The Big Lovin']

Thats my point exactly.

The singularity was in motion, thus, providing the energy needed for expansion

Eternal stuff over Eternal Intellegents, eh?

Well that leaves us with the problem of stuff doing ...stuff for no reason. Im down with an intellegent being doing something though... You?

Because an superior intelligent being needs love too right? He was just kinda getting lonely all of a sudden?

Also, "stuff doing stuff for no reason."

It doesn't need a reason to do anything because it just happens. Like that giant meteor heading towards earth doesn't need a reason to hit and destroy all life. It just does.

 

[Einon SAMA]

Actually, there are a number of reasons. You have my views on the subject, but...

I know your views on there being a time when...time didn't exist, but you'll have to reenlighten me on how stuff does stuff... I don't remember any explanation of the sort. Whatever your views are, there always is and always will be an "for some unknown reason this happened, for some unknown reason that happened." And thats precisley what you have.

It doesn't need a reason to do anything because it just happens. Like that giant meteor heading towards earth doesn't need a reason to hit and destroy all life. It just does.

And you get this reasoning from? Nothing here on earth you can observe and think like that.
I completely beg to differ. That meteor didn't just decide to head earth's way. A series of events causes things to happened. What happens at the origin of these events? Something sets it in motion. And there is no thing that ANYONE can observe to make one think that "stuff does stuff" on its on. Theres always intellegence involved. Amarite?

 

[Phoenix]

I know your views on there being a time when...time didn't exist, but you'll have to reenlighten me on how stuff does stuff... I don't remember any explanation of the sort. Whatever your views are, there always is and always will be an "for some unknown reason this happened, for some unknown reason that happened." And thats precisley what you have.

Of course. I'm not arrogant enough to pretend I know. I know what happened afterwards, but I don't know what happened before, so it's an unknown. I have my thoughts on what happened, but I can't confirm them. I readily admit that they may be wrong. Maybe God did it. Maybe Apollo did. Maybe it was a combination of the invisible pink unicorns, alien green cats and the Matrix. I have no idea, but I can take a guess based on what I know about dimensions and laws.

Is it not more honest for us to say "I do not know"?

And there is no thing that ANYONE can observe to make one think that "stuff does stuff" on its on. Theres always intellegence involved. Amarite?

While stuff does have a reason to happen, it has nothing to do with intelligence. Truly, intelligence is just one more of the millions of wonders of the Universe, but they are products of the Universe.

I think intelligent beings think intelligence is what reigns supreme in the Universe. We should all look at a star chart, and compare the Earth to a few stars to see how truly insignificant intelligence is compared to the rest of the wonders. A human's individual "intelligence" lasts less than a 100 years. Compare that to the lifetime and space-time distortions of a black hole.

 

[The Big Lovin']

And you get this reasoning from? Nothing here on earth you can observe and think like that.
I completely beg to differ. That meteor didn't just decide to head earth's way. A series of events causes things to happened. What happens at the origin of these events? Something sets it in motion. And there is no thing that ANYONE can observe to make one think that "stuff does stuff" on its on. Theres always intellegence involved. Amarite?

Wrong. When has intelligence ever been involved with an earthquake? A volcano? Yes, there are certaint events that happen in order for these things to occur, but they are hardly intelligent.

 

[Einon SAMA]

Oh. So you can relate pure unpolluted energy with an earthquake and volcano?

 

[Hollow Bastion]

I see no one bothered to read my posts.

Scientists only know up to a certain point with at least some certainty as to what happened. They don't know what happened before the first 10^−11 seconds of the universe. There isn't a good enough model for it. You can really also blame that on the fact that during that time, the fundamental forces of physics and the like were not dominant. When space-time and whatnot like that become infinite, it messes with these physical laws, making them break down.

There are also several propositions saying that there was something before the Big Bang occurred. There's the brane cosmology theory, which uses the cyclic model. This one uses the string theory, which is why it remains speculative. There's the Fermion-Boson Fate of Universe Theory, in which the universe eventually fails to heat death due to entropy, but to the nature of Bose–Einstein condensates, these last remaining particles implode upon themselves, causing a chain reaction and effectively causing another "big bang." And of course there's several more.

Just do a little research and you'll see there are far more theories than what was described by Xemnas.

 

[Phoenix]

Oh. So you can relate pure unpolluted energy with an earthquake and volcano?

Uh, yeah, because earthquakes and volcanoes deal with energy (kinetic and thermal) too. What exactly is "pure unpolluted energy" anyway? Energy is energy.

There are also several propositions saying that there was something before the Big Bang occurred. There's the brane cosmology theory, which uses the cyclic model. This one uses the string theory, which is why it remains speculative. There's the Fermion-Boson Fate of Universe Theory, in which the universe eventually fails to heat death due to entropy, but to the nature of Bose–Einstein condensates, these last remaining particles implode upon themselves, causing a chain reaction and effectively causing another "big bang." And of course there's several more.

The cyclic model is pretty much discarded by now, though, right?