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Romance in a series about friendship



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MrFranklin95

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O_O

This thread toke a turn. I thought we were talking the significance of romance in the series. Stainglass artworks that Noruma more then likely had no hand in making doesn't really further that discussion in any meaningful way.

And even if he did... who cares? Because you could arbitrarily say a person has a romantic connection to anyone on their stainglass art. It wouldn't be evidence, its speculation at best; speculation that doesn't go anywhere unless you have canonical evidence to back it up. Its why a lot of the time the fan ships of KH fall short except for a few and even then, you'd have to take an insane amount of creative liberties to get to that conclusion because, narratively speaking, Sora and Kairi are the only thing that is a legit romance at this point.

Everything else is either up in the air or they'll all be permanently stuck in the friend zone for the rest of the series. And that all depends on whether relationships besides friendships are going to be the focus at all in the future of the series.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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Everyone claims KH3 is a rushed, hot mess that Nomura was lazy about which would contradict your statement about Nomura being a perfectionist that wouldn't release artwork with Xion missing a hand - presumably because it was incomplete. If he wouldn't release artwork that was incomplete over a missing hand that is barely noticeable, then how would a described "perfectionist" like Nomura release KH3 in a rushed, hot mess state?
Nomura can be a perfectionist and still cut corners and be lazy when it’s money and time on the line. Nomura didn’t work on the stained glass designs for the memorial event; they have graphic designers and a whole marketing team that does that kind of work. Nomura didn’t program in the stained glass; Yasue handled the day to day work and Nomura can’t oversee every single thing.

Things are not black and white, and certainly not as clear cut as you wish for them to be.

And yes, Square is lazy. They can have blame over this too if that is what you want.
 

Face My Fears

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Nomura can be a perfectionist and still cut corners and be lazy when it’s money and time on the line. Nomura didn’t work on the stained glass designs for the memorial event; they have graphic designers and a whole marketing team that does that kind of work. Nomura didn’t program in the stained glass; Yasue handled the day to day work and Nomura can’t oversee every single thing.

Things are not black and white, and certainly not as clear cut as you wish for them to be.

And yes, Square is lazy. They can have blame over this too if that is what you want.
Everything I believed about this series has been revealed as a lie to me :'(
 

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O_O

This thread toke a turn. I thought we were talking the significance of romance in the series. Stainglass artworks that Noruma more then likely had no hand in making doesn't really further that discussion in any meaningful way.

And even if he did... who cares? Because you could arbitrarily say a person has a romantic connection to anyone on their stainglass art. It wouldn't be evidence, its speculation at best; speculation that doesn't go anywhere unless you have canonical evidence to back it up. Its why a lot of the time the fan ships of KH fall short except for a few and even then, you'd have to take an insane amount of creative liberties to get to that conclusion because, narratively speaking, Sora and Kairi are the only thing that is a legit romance at this point.

Everything else is either up in the air or they'll all be permanently stuck in the friend zone for the rest of the series. And that all depends on whether relationships besides friendships are going to be the focus at all in the future of the series.
I think some were using the people in the stained glass stations as hints of shipping who is in and who is not, and others were trying to argue against it which is where this station of awakening stain glass debate came from...I think? I'm dipping in and out of this thread and only catching half of what's going on. Apparently shipping can make debates even on the station stain glass lol.
 

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Now that we’ve exhausted the stained glass discussion, can we return to discussing why MickeyRiku is a slow burn?

I think some were using the people in the stained glass stations as hints of shipping who is in and who is not, and others were trying to argue against it which is where this station of awakening stain glass debate came from...I think? I'm dipping in and out of this thread and only catching half of what's going on. Apparently shipping can make debates even on the station stain glass lol.
Shipping is wild. Also we have the added bonus of everybody going stir-crazy from social distancing and quarantines.
 

Zettaflare

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Now that we’ve exhausted the stained glass discussion, can we return to discussing why MickeyRiku is a slow burn?



Shipping is wild. Also we have the added bonus of everybody going stir-crazy from social distancing and quarantines.
Oh come on, Mickey is a happily married mouse
 

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I wonder when Goofy is gonna get in a relationship? It's not like he grew Max on a farm.
 

SweetYetSalty

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Have they ever shown Max's mom in any media? I always thought it was odd they gave Goofy a son but never shown his wife(even Pete got a wife for PJ)
Not that I know of. I've always suspected Clarabelle Cow. She be cheating on Horace. That's why she wasn't in Disney Town in BBS. She was getting herself goofed!
 

Violet Pluto

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Have they ever shown Max's mom in any media? I always thought it was odd they gave Goofy a son but never shown his wife(even Pete got a wife for PJ)
If I remember correctly, Max's mother is offscreen-dead. Goofy does have a little romance with a librarian in the X-tremely Goofy Movie, but I don't know how many people remember that besides me.
can we return to discussing why MickeyRiku is a slow burn?
Shush. Their's is a secret love.
 

Face My Fears

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Now that we’ve exhausted the stained glass discussion, can we return to discussing why MickeyRiku is a slow burn?



Shipping is wild. Also we have the added bonus of everybody going stir-crazy from social distancing and quarantines.
Honestly I feel like that's why I was going so hard over the stained glass lol. I rather think about Riku's station of awakening than current events.
 

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Kingdom hearts isn’t popular cause of its plot but because of the characters, ever since kh1 the main focus was the characters as they venture into a magical adventure, as for the story... it’s interesting but it’s not what made kingdom hearts popular,
If I had to list the reasons then they are

The characters
The music
The gameplay
The final fantasy characters
The Disney worlds
The shipping
The plot too can be considered as one of the reasons, but it’s definitely the last reason.

Fans have already accepted it that the plot is messy after kh1, but that still didn’t bother them because they (we) like this franchise, it has flaws many flaws but no game is perfect, I like Kingdom heart overall.
No need to speak for everyone. For the stories in CoM and KH2 are also good.
The plot in Kh1 is too childish.Imho
 

Nukara

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Because, tbh, the lore is lamest part of the franchise.
[/QUOTE]
Believe it is not only here.
I sat in at LoK and Naruto fandome. And there, too, most of whom I knew thought of shipping rather than the main plot. Common problem for many fandoms.
The relationships of the characters often overlap the general plot for many.
 
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Foxycian

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No need to speak for everyone. For the stories in CoM and KH2 are also good.
The plot in Kh1 is too childish.Imho
but I’m Not wrong tho? i said “kh unique plot is also one of the reasons why kh is popular” but it’s still not the main reason as I have listed, it’s a messy plot so it’s most likely last, feel free to disagree with me:3 no problem.
 

Violet Pluto

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It truly does. Hard to take a male character's romance with a female character serious when not only is it alleged or choppy at best, but he has so much dick-sucking intensity between another male character.
It's usually as a result of not being good at writing romances, or not really understanding them any way other than instinctively. This causes those parts to fall flat a good bit of the time. But most people have friendships, and understanding them isn't as hard for most writers, which causes those parts to be more intense and a good portion of them well written. Also some writers blatantly bait the relationships because they know their audiences, but would never actually pay those off.

Basically the romances are written in a semi-competent or sidelined way, but because the friendship is much more pronounced and romance is usually not the focus of the series, they end up overshadowing the romantic subplot. I personally call this: The Shonen Romance Problem.
 

*TwilightNight*

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We've all been known that KH has turned downhill into being a complete shounen fest. At this point, I think majority of the fans simply can't break away despite the admittance of the story's own mediocrity.

Nonetheless, it's pretty much a disparity between Western and Eastern views. Male friendships are more open in the East than they are in the West, there isn't any fear about a male's masculinity being hit if they dare show emotion or strong connection to another guy. Lest you'll be labelled a homosexual. It's been a very toxic mindset in the West to be honest. Guys run from showing they care for their boys and I feel it has had detrimental effects in how they express themselves. After all, only women are allowed to be touchy feely and cry, right.

You can see it, for example, in Korean male idols. Just to use something that's been easily accessible. And guess how the West (i.e. Western males) sees them? "hah they are so gay", when it's like, not the case.

KH just tends to not care about preconceived notions. Characters who are friends and care for each other, whether boy to boy, girl to boy, girl to girl (though that one is barely seen, if at all) are shown to be affectionate in physical ways.

Again, look at the 2.8. ending credits. We aren't even at the romance section yet that comes at the end, but we see the friendship section displaying touch and concern.

I'm sure most of you guys remember the immense fanbase of AkuRoku due to apparent homoerotic subtext (though Axel was kind of sketchy with his behavior, not gonna lie) and how Naminé was given a hard time. And it turned out that, you know, Roxas was half Axel's age and they all suddenly jetted like...



Another issue that should be kept in mind is that these shounen stories are written by Japanese men. And not only are they Japanese men, they are older Japanese men with a certain mentality. And their perception on romance and women are...I'm just going to say unfortunate and behind the times. Prime instance? Nomura.

"I cAn'T wRItE fEmAlE cHAraCteRs".

Or something of the sort, paraphrasing here.

It's as if we're some sort of altered species or something.

Kairi being a designated love interest from the get go meant she was doomed from the start. Her entire personality and character literally revolves around Sora. The start of KH3 and her thoughts of Naminé had something going, and they did absolutely nothing with it. Naminé's own return was used as some tool to close Repliku's arc because it was about him, not about her, with her own bonds to other people (like Kairi and Roxas) not given any closure. Larxene now joined the Organization because she was following dick. Because what else would be her motivation, huh.

It's just...bad.
 
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