Namine, Roxas, Xion (Theory)

[Smile]

That's essentially the conclusion that we're coming to. She's a really special Nobody ain't she?

Only Ven's vessel never became a Nobody, as opposed to Roxas. So Namine'll be something else. There's also the issue of her crying which Nomura named as an indication of having a Heart we'll have to solve.

 

[Shire Folk]

When did Namine cry again? I can't remember if that was at the end of Re:CoM or if it happened in Re:Coded. Though, if it happened in Re:Coded, I don't think it counts because she's just a data version of herself and she knows it.

 

[Relix]

wait, i don't understand...how is it possible that namine was using Ven's body?...

didn't roxas pass out because he was close to both Sora and Ven when he was in CO? and wouldn't he faint again everytime he was near Namine if she was using Ven's body? and isn't it sorta stretching it saying that even though Namine clearly fuses with Kairi Ven's body was shot back to CO? in the Room of Awakening no less? i'm really confused.

 

[Zul]

When did Namine cry again? I can't remember if that was at the end of Re:CoM or if it happened in Re:Coded. Though, if it happened in Re:Coded, I don't think it counts because she's just a data version of herself and she knows it.

I do think that data characters are meant to reflect the real ones. I don't know why Nomura would make them act like their real counterparts, but have an underlying intention to consider them "different" characters.


BBS DID introduce the concept of another purely sentient being being formed from only a portion of a heart. It's entirely possible that a portion of Sora and Ven's heart(or just Ven) fragmented into Roxas, and a portion of Kairi's and Sora's heart(or just Kairi) fragmented and became Namine.

If it's not that, if Namine isn't a "heart fragment", then she could have been a fake being originally that became real. I might be wrong here, but I thought Re:Coded mentioned that a fake being can become a real heart(likely happened to Xion and Namine if this is the case) but a real heart can't be encoded into data(DiZ-KH2).

 

[Shire Folk]

I don't know if Kairi's heart fragmented in any way when Sora stabbed himself. It looked 'whole' after coming out of Sora in that it looked identical to the hearts of the other Princesses of Heart, so I'm not sure if it fragmented in order to give Namine a small portion of Kairi's heart, unless the shock of seeing Sora vanish right in front of her was enough to fracture her heart just a tiny bit in order to give Namine that piece.

She's got herself a heart somehow and maybe Ven's body, but I'm just not sure about what all's going on here with Namine. This is certainly a conundrum to look at while we wait for BBS:Volume II since that appears to be the game that might explain some things. Go go Gadget Kairi at the old mansion!

 

[Zul]

I don't know if Kairi's heart fragmented in any way when Sora stabbed himself. It looked 'whole' after coming out of Sora in that it looked identical to the hearts of the other Princesses of Heart, so I'm not sure if it fragmented in order to give Namine a small portion of Kairi's heart, unless the shock of seeing Sora vanish right in front of her was enough to fracture her heart just a tiny bit in order to give Namine that piece.

She's got herself a heart somehow and maybe Ven's body, but I'm just not sure about what all's going on here with Namine. This is certainly a conundrum to look at while we wait for BBS:Volume II since that appears to be the game that might explain some things. Go go Gadget Kairi at the old mansion!

Well I was just considering the possibility, not saying outright that Sora's or Kairi's heart fragmented. That explanation would "fit" nicely though, as it would avoid the whole mess with the body/soul thing concerning Nami.


Also I don't think Ven's body just vanished from CO, that small scene that has Ven and Sora vanishing also has MX's eyes flash for a moment, and their bodies turn all black-ish before disappearing. I think it has to do with MX wanting to destroy Sora and in turn that will destroy Ven.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Well I was just considering the possibility, not saying outright that Sora's or Kairi's heart fragmented. That explanation would "fit" nicely though, as it would avoid the whole mess with the body/soul thing concerning Nami.

Of course it's considering a possibility, Smile's propsoal is actually also only a possibility, as we have no real confirmed facts regarding Namine.
Although I have to second Shire Folks question as I also don't exactly remember when Namine cried.

However maybe Ven's heart is again the "culprit" here. We know his heart was gravely injured and then stayed inside Sora's but got kicked out when Sora's darkness took over and Sora's heart became a heartless.
A small part of Ven's heart was already cut off once, so maybe this happened again during the KoPH-stab and while Roxas had the main "chunk" of Ven's heart a part of it stayed with Nami?

Also I don't think Ven's body just vanished from CO, that small scene that has Ven and Sora vanishing also has MX's eyes flash for a moment, and their bodies turn all black-ish before disappearing. I think it has to do with MX wanting to destroy Sora and in turn that will destroy Ven.

Like already said, Ven vanishing from the throne in the chamber can have multiple meanings, symbolic as well as literal ones, from someone finding Ven's body over the unlikely case him being awakened, Namine using the body or your interpretation.
MX may not necessarily want to destroy, but his eyes flashing there does indicate his involvement somehow...and I am certain this isn't a good sign, lol.

 

[Zul]

Like already said, Ven vanishing from the throne in the chamber can have multiple meanings, symbolic as well as literal ones, from someone finding Ven's body over the unlikely case him being awakened, Namine using the body or your interpretation.
MX may not necessarily want to destroy, but his eyes flashing there does indicate his involvement somehow...and I am certain this isn't a good sign, lol.

Well, what strongly inclines me towards it being a "bad" thing is the context of it, we don't see it fade into white feathers or something. We see


-MX's angry eyes
-Ven's body in the CoW turning all negative/black
-Ven's body disappearing with a nasty, flashy sound.


I don't know what else happened to Ven's body, but that scene in the trailer was definitely something "eeevil".

 

[Wildbullet]

Wow, I didn't think forum topics literally last 1 day only to be forgotten.

On another side-note, and more important one at that, Wouldn't Namine's existence and 'reunion' with Kairi mean some sort of significance in her being as well, being a non-being. (and no, this is not a tongue-twister). In every sense of the word of not having a heart (but having emotions), or a body, or a soul (be it Ven's or Sora's), her non-being entity would have the most important tie-in to Kairi. I can already imagine a scenario were the Princesses are abducted again and their hearts taken away and being catatonic, with Kairi being an exception because of an existence of a conscious sentient being within, but that's just one scenario.

Anyway, somehow it is always forgotten with the fact that Kairi will always be a tie-in. Remember, Namine started fading out (or fusing in) of existence during their escape from CtNW because Kairi was in CLOSE PROXIMITY. Wouldn't this prove that out of all the characters in the World (Ven and Namine being in the same world for a long amount of time, Sora being very close to the point of physical contact, both were there and Roxas fainted when he was close (to Sora and/or Ven) but Namine didn't even when she is clearly inside for a long amount of time because she lived there and both Ven and Sora are blindingly obviously there, etc.) it would always point to Kairi. Whatever Namine's existence is, it obviously ties in to Kairi's special status, her birth, her unusual power closely tied to memories and indirectly the heart.

 

[Smile]

Actually, we don't really know what Namine's made-up from. So to say she was a non-being isn't correct. Diz only called her that way because the two vessels that she should've gotten parts of, going by traditional Nobody made-up, were occupied. She could easily be made up of something else, just like how she could be a walking Sense of Self. I'd sooner say that her being absorbed into Kairi didn't give her anything but was just inevitable - Roxas was the closest thing to a whole being, having Sora's vessel and Ven's Heart, but he still faded into Sora upon coming face to face with him.

That aside, I like the idea that if Kairi was to turn catatonic again, then Namine'd take over, assuming she'd still be active enough. But it only ties in with my views that if Kairi'll have any importance beyond being a DiD again, it's to be Namine's proxy. And what better way to fulfill this prediction than to give Namine Kairi's vessel on a silver platter until Namine fulfilled her plot role :V

 

[Wildbullet]

Smile, I like the way you think, even if it is confusing half the time. Kairi as Namine's proxy, hmm...I can't help but shake the feeling that Namine is about to play a bigger role than Kairi in the coming games (then again, she already did play bigger roles than Kairi in the past games). I doubt she'd be still active though, other than that 'revival' concept going around. MX did say that he has more than one road, and clearly gathering the Princesses (ALL of them) proved to be a failure time and again.

 

[Smile]

Actually, MX didn't seem to really be gathering the Princesses. While it's possible he had a plan for them, it seems like he bothered with Aurora to get Terra and Maleficent to meet so Maleficent would manipulate Terra and send him further down the path to Darkness.
I kind of doubt that if MX really wanted to bother with the PoHs, that it would've been in the same way the Apprentice's Heartless did.

 

[Wildbullet]

Ooooh, definitely agree there. He really wouldn't find much use for them because they're Light-based while MX is more into Darkness, and I doubt he'll bother finding a pure-darkness being to fight the Princesses without said being being driven away because of all that light, not to mention it's a Disney game and none would dare harm a girl, let alone the Princesses.

Ok, let's see what we know of the 3 said individuals...er...beings...or half-beings, whatever:

Xion - Roxas/Sora imperfect replica, manifestation of Sora's memories, looks like Kairi because Kairi is the Most Important Person to Sora. Not a Nobody, just a bunch of memories turned human. A flawed sample at that.

Roxas - Sora's Nobody. An anomaly to being even a 'Nobody' with the existence of a fragmented heart within him. Capable of feeling emotions because of said fragment. Has "2 1/2" composition of 'being-ness.' The fact that he existed alongside Sora is unusual, more so with Ven. (Might he have 'faded' within to when he joined Sora the first time? Was never shown on scene to be in 'close proximity.')

Namine - Kairi's Nobody. An anomaly to being even a 'Nobody' because of her unusual powers, birth, looks, composition, etc. Capable of feeling emotion, but has no basis. Unknown composition of 'being-ness'. Vexen has a folder that contains studies on Namine. The fact that said folder even exist, and coming from an academic, infers that Namine is indeed an unusual entity that requires more in-depth analysis. Fades when in close proximity to Kairi.

On another note: As for the activity of a Nobody when reunited with their True Self:
They might have some form of volition with their own will, there are many scenes in the game that prove this. They can probably act independently, albeit at a very limited scope.

 

[Smile]

I still don't buy the whole "Kairi's Sora's strongest Memory" biz. It's so convenient she got her face on the very say day Sora forgot Kairi completely in CoM :\ then Roxas and Axel could've remembered her with the Kairi-face, which in turn would fuel that appearance. She looked like enough people through the game for this to not really add up.

It's not really that unusual for Sora and Roxas to exist together. Heartless and Nobodies exist together at the same time. Kairi just purified Sora so he wasn't quite a standard Heartless.

 

[Wildbullet]

Hmm, you have a point. Still, a replica is just a replica (and no, I don't hate her, I'm just trying to be as objective as possible, story-wise).

Xion's existence is already a given

Roxas' is a puzzle where the picture is almost complete but the remaining pieces don't fit.

Namine's however...hmm...well, we do know that she isn't really all that 'light-based' since she can use the corridors. She certainly can't be "the Darkness that should've been there but isn't" within Kairi because that would just defeat the existence of a Pure Heart born naturally free, because even if she was, her reunion with Kairi would negate the PoH status. What exactly do we know about her? Can someone enumerate those?

 

[Smile]

Actually, compared to Repliku, Xion's quite the anomaly. She's supposed to be SoRo's Replica but looked like Kairi and then transformed as the Memories were absorbed further. She's different in the sense that unlike Repliku, she doesn't have replicas of the Memories but the Memories themselves. More so than a Replica, she truly "strived" to become the original. Then comes in the issue that in this sense, she's the replica of at least two people - Sora and Riku, seeing how she absorbed Riku's Memories as well.
She's hardly "just a replica", otherwise why would she need to have her torment lessened? Repliku didn't get any of that.

I'd sooner say that Roxas is the "given" here. We know what he's made up from and where all the pieces came from. There are no question marks like Xion's connection to Riku. He's a lot more explained than Xion is.

Actually, seeing how Namine came from Sora more than she came from Kairi, her affiliation with Darkness actually makes sense. And it certainly would be interesting if the Darkness in Namine that came from Sora was absorbed into Kairi because it'll wreck havok with her PoH-ness. If they went there, I'd love to see that.

As for what we know of Namine:
Born at the same time as Roxas, a bi-product of his birth because Kairi's Heart left Sora's vessel at the same time.
She has neither Sora nor Kairi's vessels. What she IS made up from is unknown. We only know that she received her "Sense of Self" imprint from Kairi, therefore the face.
HOWEVER.
Being born from Sora, she has ties to HIS Memories and those connected to him, not to Kairi's Memories. Also, going by the differences in her hair color and style (Kairi and Xion have "spiky" bangs over their forehead and straight hair on the back whereas Namine's hair is wavy), as well as where she was born, she was most likely influenced by the Ven-Factor as well.

 

[Wildbullet]

Hm, I stand corrected. Still, Namine is an interesting character, not the most interesting, but still, enough to have a number of topic forums guessing as to what she actually is.

We do know that she has some form of being somewhat omniscient. Not only was she able to manipulate Sora's memories and those tied to him, but she has some control over darkness. Also I doubt Nomura would expand on that 'dark' loophole; it'd be too much for his job. Hmm, she did come from Kairi's heart, which resided within Sora, which had a lot of hearts within it.

What we do know:
Memories are tied to the heart, if not a 'side-effect', then some form of 'tangible' manifestation, in the sense that, it is something understood on an otherwise complicated structure and component of a being. Namine has some jurisdiction over this if it involves Sora.

Coded was revolving on the words that she made at the Journal. She found out about TVA through Sora's heart and memories. Something about helping those in torment: TVA and RAX...as well as herself. It might be not related, but she clearly is alone out of all those that have to be 'helped.' Her relationships and ties are practically distant at best, with her being forgotten but never lost to Sora, 'the incomplete half (even that is questionable)' to Kairi and together but not really together to Roxas.