Mega Theory

[Mr. Wilhelm]

I agree with the light being used for evil... I'd like ennemy be this.

 

[Awesome Ansem]

But some examples outside KH I could use, (but you probably won't care): DMC4.
The main villian was a holy man who used light.

To be fair, sanctus didn't ever use the power of light. He just masked his evil intentions behind "good intentions". He used the religion as an excuse to try to gain sparda's power. He never used light, because in dmc doesn't even have anything to do with light vs. dark.

Still, I'm pretty sure all the characters in kingdom hearts whose hearts are filled with mostly light are good; and the people whose hearts are filled with mostly darkness are bad. And before you mention riku, in kh2 his heart was filled with mostly light, even though he used the power of darkness. And he didn't even use the power of darkness for that long because he didn't want to. Why wouldn't he want to use it if it was perfectly fine?

And I'm not going to define "bad" or "evil" because you should know what those words mean.

edit:

I think the new enemies are beings completely from the light.

Ranma said he thinks the new enemies are "completely from the light". He didn't say the utilized the power of light, even though they are "bad guys"; he said they are from the light. This, to me, sounds like he's saying the enemies originate from light or are born from light. You want to know what have been born from darkness in the kh series? Heartless. Because darkness represents someone who is a bad guy. I doubt light would also create bad guys.

 

[Mr. Wilhelm]

Ok, just to say on the subject evil, good, light, darkness :

Light and darkness are two word that everyone have a clear idea of what it is, so no problem for it.

Good and Evil are not that easy. We just can't say Light = Good because the Word good as oposed to evil is so complex that it would be just wrong.

Good and Evil is a question of point of view. From Xemnas point of view, yes, Sora is evil in KH2 because he stops nobody to rebecome whole. From Sora's point of view, it is Xemnas who is evil. We just can't bound word like darkness/light to evil/good.

 

[Yannis]

Ok, just to say on the subject evil, good, light, darkness :

Light and darkness are two word that everyone have a clear idea of what it is, so no problem for it.

Good and Evil are not that easy. We just can't say Light = Good because the Word good as oposed to evil is so complex that it would be just wrong.

Good and Evil is a question of point of view. From Xemnas point of view, yes, Sora is evil in KH2 because he stops nobody to rebecome whole. From Sora's point of view, it is Xemnas who is evil. We just can't bound word like darkness/light to evil/good.

Yes, but the PoH cant be evil..:closedeyes:

 

[Mr. Wilhelm]

Yes, but the PoH cant be evil..:closedeyes:

It depends of the point of views. Kairi helped Sora so for Xemnas, she is evil. If you give me a perfect definition of what is evil, then I'll believe you. But a perfect definition would be one every people agree on. It will never happen for good and evil.

I personaly think the word good and evil does not mean a lot because they are always used from a point of view, and then from the other side, their meaning radically changes.

 

[Stars]

Ok, just to say on the subject evil, good, light, darkness :

Light and darkness are two word that everyone have a clear idea of what it is, so no problem for it.

Good and Evil are not that easy. We just can't say Light = Good because the Word good as oposed to evil is so complex that it would be just wrong.

Good and Evil is a question of point of view. From Xemnas point of view, yes, Sora is evil in KH2 because he stops nobody to rebecome whole. From Sora's point of view, it is Xemnas who is evil. We just can't bound word like darkness/light to evil/good.

You have made a good point though..

 

[Awesome Ansem]

evil = having bad intentions.

but you can still be bad (not the same as evil) but have good intentions. Such as: riku wanted to save kairi, but he did it in about the worst way possiible, and then he lost sight of that goal, because he was consumed with darkness.

 

[V.A.T.13]

To be fair, sanctus didn't ever use the power of light. He just masked his evil intentions behind "good intentions". He used the religion as an excuse to try to gain sparda's power. He never used light, because in dmc doesn't even have anything to do with light vs. dark.

Still, I'm pretty sure all the characters in kingdom hearts whose hearts are filled with mostly light are good; and the people whose hearts are filled with mostly darkness are bad. And before you mention riku, in kh2 his heart was filled with mostly light, even though he used the power of darkness. And he didn't even use the power of darkness for that long because he didn't want to. Why wouldn't he want to use it if it was perfectly fine?

And I'm not going to define "bad" or "evil" because you should know what those words mean.

edit:

Ranma said he thinks the new enemies are "completely from the light". He didn't say the utilized the power of light, even though they are "bad guys"; he said they are from the light. This, to me, sounds like he's saying the enemies originate from light or are born from light. You want to know what have been born from darkness in the kh series? Heartless. Because darkness represents someone who is a bad guy. I doubt light would also create bad guys.

facepalm.jpeg

Read what Cid says, it's exactly what I'm trying to say:

Ok, just to say on the subject evil, good, light, darkness :

Light and darkness are two word that everyone have a clear idea of what it is, so no problem for it.

Good and Evil are not that easy. We just can't say Light = Good because the Word good as oposed to evil is so complex that it would be just wrong.

Good and Evil is a question of point of view. From Xemnas point of view, yes, Sora is evil in KH2 because he stops nobody to rebecome whole. From Sora's point of view, it is Xemnas who is evil. We just can't bound word like darkness/light to evil/good.

It depends of the point of views. Kairi helped Sora so for Xemnas, she is evil. If you give me a perfect definition of what is evil, then I'll believe you. But a perfect definition would be one every people agree on. It will never happen for good and evil.

I personaly think the word good and evil does not mean a lot because they are always used from a point of view, and then from the other side, their meaning radically changes.

THIS.
This is why I asked you to define "evil". There is no "true" definition for it.

evil = having bad intentions.

but you can still be bad (not the same as evil) but have good intentions. Such as: riku wanted to save kairi, but he did it in about the worst way possiible, and then he lost sight of that goal, because he was consumed with darkness.

Define "bad"
Sora's intentions were to kill all the nobodies no? That sounds pretty bad to me. Especially since all they were trying to do was to obtain a heart and become whole beings. "But vat! they killed people without careing!"
No shit. They CAN'T care. You think if they LIKED killing, they would WANT to stay nobodies because we all know the emotions hold us back from doing alot of things. But apparently, they DON'T like thier current state, therefore, are trying to change it. Trying to survive. Survival of the strongest. That's the way the world goes. We makes sacrifice things or others in order to help ourselves to live.

So if "surviving" is bad/evil, then that's everyone in the goddamn game. I mean, look at what Namine did. Yes, the org forced her, but she did it for herself as well. Changing Sora's memories so that it could be HER instead of Kairi. And don't give me that "same person" crap, because even though they share the same...er...actually, Namine doesn't share anything with Kairi. >_>;
But you get my point, yes? plus, she was neither light OR dark.

Same with heartless. They act on instinct. How is instinct evil? All animals would be evil then, wouldn't they?

MY definition of true "evil": would be someone getting enjoyment out of causing harm to others intentionally. And the only character that does that, is Anxem(h) and ATW. Of course, I have no problem with it myself. I still like those two.

 

[El Coqu?]

ok 1)i didnt know that was Kairi's grandmother's message
2)i know that message from the manga[imma khlover]
3)i did hear something bout the new enemies being of light
4)keyblades were created to be used by the "Chasers" to maintain a balance between Light and Dark

<a href="http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb138/sosajoshua/?action=view&current=ven2.gif" target="_blank"><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb138/sosajoshua/ven2.gif" border="0" alt="Khinsider Signature"></a>

 

[V.A.T.13]

^ 1. Well now you know
2. Manga = not canon, so don't take it seriously.
3. You heard wrong. The only thing said about them is that they are "not heartless or nobodies" I myself don't believe they are light. They can save that or KH3.
4. That's a thought alot of people have.

 

[Awesome Ansem]

evil = having bad intentions.

Define "bad"

not good.

MY definition of true "evil": would be someone getting enjoyment out of causing harm to others intentionally.

That sounds like a bad intention to me. And there's more to being evil than just enjoying harm, but that doesn't really matter.

And the only character that does that, is Anxem(h) and ATW.

And Ansem(h)'s heart is pure what? And Ansem the wise wasn't evil. Even if he wanted to hurt xehanort, it was because xehanort cause harm to him, and he either wanted revenge, or he wanted to make sure an evil man was stopped.

 

[Anima Relic]

In KH, Light and Darkness are just sides or factions that you pick to be on. They aren't good or evil. It's the person, animal, thing, that uses light or darkness that is good or evil, or chooses whether or not to be good or evil.

 

[Xziled]

good and evil is the same as war 2 opposing points of view so far i think VAT-13 is right on that part light and darkness are just tools used in that war riku is a good example of that and even mickey said you cant have one without the other the concept also goes for the YIN & YANG theory as well

 

[V.A.T.13]

not good.

I hope that was a joke.

That sounds like a bad intention to me. And there's more to being evil than just enjoying harm, but that doesn't really matter.

Like I said, MY definition. See? We both have different views on what is bad and good. Is either of us right? No, and neither of us is wrong either. It's a matter of point of view. No where in the game did it say that dark = bad and good = light.
Infact, even Mickey comes to realize this when he gives his lil speech near the end of the game.

And Ansem(h)'s heart is pure what? And Ansem the wise wasn't evil. Even if he wanted to hurt xehanort, it was because xehanort cause harm to him, and he either wanted revenge, or he wanted to make sure an evil man was stopped.

Puh-lease.
If Ansem's(h) heart was full of light, he'd do the same damn thing. Just replace light with darkness.

AnsemTW mostly did what he did out of revenge. Because of this, his actions caused harm to others and he used people. He hated Nobodies with a passion, even didn't like Namine who was for the most part, innocent.
He wanted to cause harm to Xehanort, and freaking grinned about the thought of it. Now, according to your "light = good" thing, wouldn't AnsemTW have forgiven Xehanort and perhaps HELP the other nobodies find a way to obtain their heart back peacefully? I dun't think so.

 

[Gildragon]

It depends of the point of views. Kairi helped Sora so for Xemnas, she is evil. If you give me a perfect definition of what is evil, then I'll believe you. But a perfect definition would be one every people agree on. It will never happen for good and evil.

I personaly think the word good and evil does not mean a lot because they are always used from a point of view, and then from the other side, their meaning radically changes.

NO NO NO.

Evil is Evil and Good is Good. Ansem is still evil. even Evil villians like being evil. they want to destroy the good, and destroy the light. all that sora is to xemnas is just somethign preventign him from reachign more power in being evil

 

[V.A.T.13]

^
Explain good and evil please.
We never really did find out Ansem's real intentions did we? All we knew was he was trying to wrap everything in darkness for some reason.

 

[KNIGHT OF HEARTS]

NO NO NO.

Evil is Evil and Good is Good. Ansem is still evil. even Evil villians like being evil. they want to destroy the good, and destroy the light. all that sora is to xemnas is just somethign preventign him from reachign more power in being evil

one thing it wasn't Ansem it was a heartless king mickey said that in Kingdom hearts two.
But your right good is good and evil is evil like Ansems heartless

 

[Awesome Ansem]

to vat: If Ansem's heart was filled with light, I am 100% sure that he would not do the same thing as when his heart was filled with darkness. He would never have become a heartless. His heart was filled with darkness because he was an evil (use whatever definition you want) person. If light and dark don't mean anything, then why was Ansem's heart filled with darkness, and not light? Why is kairi's heart filled with light? why is sora, the protagonist, a warrior of light? Why are the badguys made of darkness? Why did ansem the wise want to stop xehanort from doing experiments with darkness?

Kingdom hearts is the classic light vs. dark battle. yes, light and darkness can be used as tools by anyone. But that's not to say that an "enemy completely from the light" can exist in kh. In kh: can enemies use light as a tool for to try to kill sora? sure, even though we're never seen that, nor has anything hinted at it. Can a being who is completely made of light, or has a heart full of light be evil and wish harm upon the main characters for their own enjoyment? probably not.

 

[Xziled]

how long will this discussion continue and it has become apparent to me that some people will remain ignorant even with the truth thrust onto them

 

[Gildragon]

one thing it wasn't Ansem it was a heartless king mickey said that in Kingdom hearts two.
But your right good is good and evil is evil like Ansems heartless

yah I know that but he went by the name of ansem. to be more specific he is the hearless of the Xehanort we know of KH2. I usually call him XH/Ansem.

@ VAT: I find it hard to believe that you continually ask for a definition of evil. In stories like this there is a good guy and a bad guy. the good guy happens to be the protagonist and respectively the bad guy is the antagonist. Light always overcomes darkness. that is how light works. Since sora aligngs himself with light and for this story we can tell he is the GOOD guy. we can tell he will always overcome the darkness. Hmm I wonder what trait the enemies he fought that had darkness them had for a trait. Hmmm, DARKNESS.

morally bad or wrong; "evil purposes"; "an evil influence"; "evil deeds"
morally objectionable behavior

having the nature of vice

that which causes harm or destruction or misfortune; "the evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones"- Shakespeare

tending to cause great harm

the quality of being morally wrong in principle or practice; "attempts to explain the origin of evil in the world"

malefic: having or exerting a malignant influence; "malevolent stars"; "a malefic force"

does this sound like XH/Ansem or Xemnas yes.