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Kingdom Hearts III Pre-Release Spoiler Discussion Thread



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darknessofheart

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Re: The Official Voice Actor Discussion Thread

I know you are fairly new here, so I will give you this warning only once. Do not post anything related to the leaked game in any section but the spoiler section. And if you happen to refer to them outside of the spoiler section, use spoiler tags.

Edit: Moved to Spoiler thread

All good, I figured it was just posted in the wrong section.
Thank you, I appreciate it. My mistake, I did indeed post it in the wrong thread.
 

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Reading that some clear and reasonable points are still flying over some users' heads kind of irks me, but whatever. I'll explain again.

The lesson is: don't judge a game you haven't played. I don't think this is too much to ask nor unreasonable.

Another lesson is: learn to differentiate personal disappointments and game's actual faults. Coliseum's purpose is to offer a setting so that the player can have fun with the combat. This means that the Coliseum is irrelevant itself because it could be anything else. That's why we have the Mirage Arena in BbS and Link Portals in DDD. We don't have (not really spoiler-y, but just in case)
Spoiler Spoiler Show


Another lesson: don't be hypocrites. KH2 is loved even though it's a downgrade from its predecessor in many areas, but KH3 is already labeled as "bad" because Twilight Town
Spoiler Spoiler Show


Then KH2FM comes along and everybody falls in love with it. It's a DLC pack but this doesn't seem to bother anyone. Now just the thought of some DLCs drive people crazy because for some reasons I can't figure out for the life of me, KH3 is not allowed to have them. Just because many games nowadays abuse DLCs, doesn't mean that they are inherently bad. They aren't. Telling people "Maybe KH3FM will be the game you have always wanted" doesn't mean we're giving this game an excuse to be bad or mediocre. We want and we deserve a good vanilla game, heck, a great game! And from what we have seen, it could be.

Saying things like "KH3 needs to be perfect, needs to have this and that and blah blah blah because it's on the PS4/Xbox One and has had years of development" doesn't go against KH3, it actually puts KH2 to shame because there was no absolute reason for it to feel like a downgrade in some areas, given the circumstances. Yet it was. This time around, Nomura and the team had to use a new engine they were not familiar with and address and fix every major issue this series has, while making the game feel fresh and new. It takes time and passion to make a good game and KH3 has had both. And it shows. I can't shake off the feeling that some of you guys are disrespecting people's work by judging a game you haven't played and overreacting at minor (if not trivial) things.

I thought and hoped January would be full of hype, discussions and reasonable concerns. Not... Whatever this is.
As someone who is very excited for this game and pretty sure they're going to love it, I'm going to say you're sort of coming off as the other side of the coin to which you are irked by. Calling some of these things that bother people trivial is kind of missing the point of discussion. If having an actual Coliseum is that important to someone, it's not trivial to them. Whether it is to anyone else has no bearing on their enjoyment of the game, and that's how it should be to be honest. It can't be up to someone to decide what is reasonable or not for others to be concerned with.

I get what you're trying to say, and I'm actually on your side of the fence for the most part. You just can't make it your personal agenda to make people see what you see, discussing and seeing their viewpoint is awesome and a great way to talk. Discussing only to change someone else's mind or viewpoint isn't really discussion.

I honestly get while other people have found disappointment in certain aspects of what we know. I've been lucky and they haven't been huge factors for me in what I love about KH. I just try not to take other people's opinions as an attack on my opinions or viewpoints. It's not my job to change their mind, just to talk and figure out why they think what they think! Either way don't let it get to you, I'm sure you will love this game!
 

drew0512

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As someone who is very excited for this game and pretty sure they're going to love it, I'm going to say you're sort of coming off as the other side of the coin to which you are irked by. Calling some of these things that bother people trivial is kind of missing the point of discussion. If having an actual Coliseum is that important to someone, it's not trivial to them. Whether it is to anyone else has no bearing on their enjoyment of the game, and that's how it should be to be honest. It can't be up to someone to decide what is reasonable or not for others to be concerned with.

I get what you're trying to say, and I'm actually on your side of the fence for the most part. You just can't make it your personal agenda to make people see what you see, discussing and seeing their viewpoint is awesome and a great way to talk. Discussing only to change someone else's mind or viewpoint isn't really discussion.

I honestly get while other people have found disappointment in certain aspects of what we know. I've been lucky and they haven't been huge factors for me in what I love about KH. I just try not to take other people's opinions as an attack on my opinions or viewpoints. It's not my job to change their mind, just to talk and figure out why they think what they think! Either way don't let it get to you, I'm sure you will love this game!
Oh, but I fully agree. I think (and hope) that this is what I've been doing the whole time - discussing and not shoving my opinions. Especially because, when it comes down to this game, I don't really have opinions myself. Even if I wanted, I can't defend nor criticise this game before I lay my hands on it. Anyway, I want to apologize for having used "trivial". English is not my first language (and well, it's pretty clear, lol) and it was actually meant to be a synonym of "minor" but I didn't think that it actually has a very negative connotation. The overall point was that some things we're disappointing in are at the end of the day minor things when looking at the big picture. It wasn't my intention to downplay other people's issues.
Like I said several times, disappointment is normal and you have every right to feel disappointed in something. Heck, I'm always in the front line when it comes to
Spoiler Spoiler Show
.
I just think that, given the particular situation we are currently in, things sometimes tend to go out of hand and I don't really enjoy this thread that much when it happens. I don't even dare to imagine what it's like elsewhere.
It was some sort of a rant and somehow aimed at a bit of damage controlling, but diplomacy has never been my forte, lol. In any case I also apologize if that sounded way too harsh, not my intention obviously.

I'm pretty positive I'll love this game simply because most of the time I'll enjoy things even if they're bad (KH1 is my favourite und I always have a lot of fun with BbS). This game really needs to be an unplayable mess for me to be able not to love or at least like it.. Or rub me all the possible wrong ways like DDD does, ugh.
 

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Yes, the handhelds had plot reasons for reusing old worlds. But it seems likely that they knowingly structured the plots in a way that allowed them to reuse assets. But either way, it’s high time that we move beyond those worlds and allow Sora to meet new characters and forge new friendships just like he did in KH1 since we’ve had all these other games for Sora to reunite with his old friends in one form or another and their main plots were concluded on either KH1 or 2. The goal with KH3 was to recapture some of that KH1 magic of Sora traveling to worlds he has absolutely no prior connection to and seeing how his friendships with these characters form while also including a few reunion worlds (Olympus, Caribbean, 100 Acre Wood) to provide some of that emotional throughline of his established relationships like continuing Sora’s development as Jack Sparrow’s pirate protégé.

Arendelle was eyed and possibly chosen by Nomura before the film even released. Elsa’s struggle with her inner darkness, the concept of a frozen heart, and the manipulation of memories are all ideas that scream to be a part of Kingdom Hearts world. If it hadn’t been included, I’d be just as bothered if it wasn’t in as I am about PatF and Atlantis not appearing as those also have elements that fit all too well with the series. Despite its popularity, Frozen is still an excellent film and it wouldn’t be popular if it didn’t have something the audiences resonated with. My issue surrounding the film is that Disney is so desperate to cash in on it, they forget all the other films people love, including the recent ones like PatF, Tangled, Big Hero 6, Zootopia, etc. It isn’t that Frozen shouldn’t get featured in things like KH, but that other things should be featured alongside it. Same with the KH worlds. Imo, the problem isn’t Frozen or any worlds appearance. It’s the lack of a couple more that could have balanced everything out more.

As for Sora being in the “background” of the Frozen plot, I believe this is to offer him more flexibility to actually be more involved with both Anna and Elsa’s journeys. If it was like a normal KH world where he mostly follows one character or group, he wouldn’t be able to bond with both of them since they’re separated most of the film.

The latter half of your post seems to be based on a common misconception. KH isn’t becoming part of the canon of the films, so they don’t have to explain why Woody, Buzz, etc. don’t remember Sora. Rather, the films of Toy Story 1, 2, Big Hero 6, and Monstropolis are canon to KH so that the characters in these worlds have their established histories and the KH team can play off of that to imagine what a sequel to these films that takes place in the KH universe would be like. Technically, this isn’t a new concept because Olympus in KH1 was intended to take place after the events of the original film.
There are plenty of ways to integrate recurring Disney characters without having Sora explicitly visit those worlds. I loved the idea of having the links for KH3 be based on older characters so that their presence is still acknowledged, but that seems to have been half-baked in its execution, at best. Kairi should absolutely have had the OG PoH folded into her arc, but Nomura has exactly one idea about how to integrate women into the series so that potential was abandoned, and it doesn't even look like she'll interact with the new candidates to make up for it. I totally think it was right to strike a balance between old and new worlds, but this specific lineup is not a good example of how to go about it. Given that they knew their final word roster was going to be this limited, and given that they knew the original content was going to get shafted for the Disney stuff, the priority ought to have been to cast that net as widely as possible and bring in these deeper cuts to make the game feel as well rounded as possible. That lack of willingness to flex the imaginative muscle seems to confound KH3 in a lot of ways, though, which is ultimately disappointing because KH as a franchise thrives on that spirit of boundary-breaking unpredictability. KH3 really could have taken that blank check and run with it, but instead it's playing it safe right to center field.

Frozen is far from a good film, but that doesn't matter much to me because KH can use a bad film in a brilliant fashion and it'll work just fine for me. Tbh I don't like Disney or its movies in general, and their recent output is particularly detestable to me because of how they've gone out of their way to kill traditional hand-drawn animation, but KH has historically made the inclusion palatable by rearranging the features of these worlds to suit its needs and I'm always interested to see how that's going to be accomplished with different titles. I lost interest in KoC and Arendelle the instant Nomura started talking about new PoH, and then it was revealed that Sora wouldn't even fight alongside Anna or Elsa because they insisted on using the plot from the film even though there are plenty of ways to work its core concepts into a fresh take on the story, such as what they did with Atlantica in KH1. FFS, just make Kairi into a playable character in that world, and then Sora could spend time with one sister and she could spend time with the other and the two could meet in the middle somewhere near the climax-- that would be an excellent way to build drama within that world (vis-a-vis the anticipation of seeing Sora and Kairi reunite in parallel with Elsa and Anna), make it feel unique (if no other Disney worlds have a second playable character), and develop Kairi by integrating her into a Disney world for the first time ever. Hell, if Lea's with Kairi then it adds another dimension to the conflict, since Larxene is the SoD there and she has a specific history with Lea from CoM that could spark (no pun intended) some fine antagonism on her part. Not to mention Kairi herself harbors Namine's heart within her, so she might experience all kinds of feelings upon meeting Larxene as the ingrained memories of her past cruelty come to the surface.

This is the kind of storytelling that KH3 has apparently sacrificed to do things Disney's way, and stay faithful to the original film with literally no benefit to the story as it's going to unfold in KH. That's what makes it uninspired and hackneyed. There are altogether better world choices to begin with, but when they don't even utilize what they have to tell the strongest story possible with it? I'm not just going to give it a pass on that.

IIRC Nomura explicitly stated that the Toy Story world is set between films, which to me means that it's set in the canon of the film universe. If he's said something else to clarify or contradict that, OK.
 

destinykh

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This is the kind of storytelling that KH3 has apparently sacrificed to do things Disney's way, and stay faithful to the original film with literally no benefit to the story as it's going to unfold in KH. That's what makes it uninspired and hackneyed.
While I completely agree with you re:use of disney stories in KH, I'd like to point out that the most egregious example of uninspired Disney use was in KH2, where almost all of the world visits are filler, condensed versions of the movie plots, except without the charm, music and the magic. I wouldn't lay this at the feet of Disney just for KH3, where there has already been precedent.
 
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While I completely agree with you re:use of disney stories in KH, I'd like to point out that the most egregious example of uninspired Disney use was in KH2, where almost all of the world visits are filler, condensed versions of the movie plots, except without the charm, music and the magic. I wouldn't lay this at the feet of Disney just for KH3, where there has already been precedent.
Certainly, and it's possible that Disney's involvement isn't as significant a factor as Nomura and team simply failing to script a compelling plot, but ultimately the reason is less important to me than the outcome. The only reason I would reference KH2 here would be to point out that it has a strong Disney lineup, not that those worlds were flawlessly implemented because they weren't. With that in mind, the KH3 team ought to have learned from those mistakes and found a way to integrate worlds in a way that realizes their full potential. Not just, "How can they be really big," which seems to be the start and end point of the target Osaka set for themselves.
 

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I do get a sense of the Disney worlds in KH3 being utilized to their full potential. The fact that the full seven playable ones dont feel like filler and are contributing to different plotlines tells me Nomura put a lot of work into integrating them. It helps that he picked organization members that tie in thematically with each Disney world and make them ally with the Disney villains
 

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Kingdom Hearts is canon to Toy Story. This was confirmed by Nomura.

— According to the Toy Story timeline, does this fall about the time of the 1st movie?

Nomura:
The Toy Story world isn’t simply a sort of abridged telling of the original Toy Story plot with Sora and co. being thrown in. The events that occur take place after the 2nd movie. The setting of the story is not in a parallel plane to the original. Everything that happens in KH3 will be on the same timeline as the Toy Story series.
https://www.khinsider.com/news/Full-Famitsu-interview-with-Nomura-on-KINGDOM-HEARTS-3-9772

As far as we are aware, it is the only world that has been specifically set within the canon of film franchise it is from.

/factcheck
 

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What about Big Hero 6? Doesnt it take place after the 1st?
We already know that the plot of the world takes place after the movie. That was announced immediately when they confirmed the world years ago. That's the reason Dark Baymax is a thing, because that is the original Baymax they left in the other dimension in the movie.

We don't know if it's supposed to be canon like the Toy Story plot is though.
 
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Seighart

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We already know that the plot of the world takes place after the movie. That was announced immediately when they confirmed the world years ago. That's the reason Dark Baymax is a thing, because that is the original Baymax they left in the other dimension in the movie.

We don't know if it's supposed to be canon like the Toy Story plot is though.
Ahh right. I'd rather it isn't simply for the fact that if they decide to do a 2nd movie they'd have to explain why there's a second Baymax I guess
 

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What about Big Hero 6? Doesnt it take place after the 1st?
It does take place after BH6, but unlike TS it has not been confirmed to be based within its canon timeline. From that we can infer that it is a parallel timeline like the rest of the worlds.
 

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It does take place after BH6, but unlike TS it has not been confirmed to be based within its canon timeline. From that we can infer that it is a parallel timeline like the rest of the worlds.
Adding on to this, the TV show picks up from the middle of BH6’s movie ending and then continues after, which makes it harder to place KH’s canon with the world in with the movie canon, unlike Toy Story which has three movies and a handful of shorts, the latter which establish when they take place.

Unless BH6 the Series or BH6 2 deal with a dark Baymax and everything, I believe the world of San Fransokyo is trusted enough for viewers to understand it takes place in a parallel timeline where the events of the first movie happened before things shifting to this alternate timeline, much like with every other Disney film.

For Toy Story, Nomura has made it clear to viewers, via translations, that Toy Story 2 and 3 are canon to the story that runs along in Kingdom Hearts 3. It’s then safe to assume, unless word of god explicitly says otherwise, that Kingdom Hearts’ Story runs concurrent with the movies.

The Disney worlds in the past have run in that parallel universe but it seems that Pixar have given approval to having Kingdom Hearts actually be canical to the Toy Story universe. Monsters Inc is different, however, since they haven’t confirmed if it’s canon due to the TV series coming later this year on the streaming service.
 

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I still like that kh is now canon through a disney material. This means that everything in kh is canon, to Pixar atleast, because of toy story.
 

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I still like that kh is now canon through a disney material. This means that everything in kh is canon, to Pixar atleast, because of toy story.
I find Disney movies more exciting, especially sequels, to think “man, a human with a key, a duck, and a dog were here with everyone”. No matter how good a Disney film is, thinking this makes it even more better.

I watched a screener version of Wreck it Ralph 2 and the whole time, especially through the Princess section, I was thinking “Sora influenced everything they’re saying” and it made the movie so much more better.
 

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I find Disney movies more exciting, especially sequels, to think “man, a human with a key, a duck, and a dog were here with everyone”. No matter how good a Disney film is, thinking this makes it even more better.

I watched a screener version of Wreck it Ralph 2 and the whole time, especially through the Princess section, I was thinking “Sora influenced everything they’re saying” and it made the movie so much more better.
I havent seen WIR2 yet, but I guess so?

Also if bh6 is canon, then I think monsters Inc is canon as a sequel to the first movie.
 

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I havent seen WIR2 yet, but I guess so?

Also if bh6 is canon, then I think monsters Inc is canon as a sequel to the first movie.
Wreck it Ralph 2 has no direct connection to Kingdom Hearts outside of one specific part which we have yet to see if its true. But my point was it’s fun to watch these moves and thing how KH is canon to them because the sheer absurdity of Kingdom Hearts elevates the humour of the movie’s. It certainly worked with Pirates 2/3 when I rewatched them prior to playing this game.
 

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Okay so the leaker has uploaded gameplay of Corona. Nothing relatively new. Just a few new heartless in action.
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