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Is Vanitas a Heartless?



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NeoshadowXC

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I don't think Nomura intended this, but frankly I don't see how it's much different.

Vanitas was extracted from the darkness in Ventus's heart, which kind of makes him a heartless by definition. And that would leave Ventus (who lost all memory and had to reform his identity) a nobody, much like Roxas after him.

Thoughts?
 

Ruran

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No, Vanitas is a Vanitas. :p

This is a surprisingly popular question, but no. A Heartless is a heart that has been lost to darkness. Ven never lost his heart to darkness, just had that bit removed and given sentience.

Vanitas is more like Naminé in that he's an atypical being that technically doesn't have a classification. Much like how Naminé is a sort of Nobody, but not really, as the progenitor Vanitas is more in line with the Unversed. But not really. As a being with a heart of pure darkness, a naturally corrosive element, he is not well versed in life and so functions as its opposite.

He's somewhere between being a form of "Unversed" (loosely speaking) and an artificial "human".
 

FangirlfromHell

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No. Vanitas is the darkness of Ventus' heart made incarnate. Therefore he is the physical embodiment of half a heart. That said, after contact with Sora's just born heart the two halves became whole hearts comprised of their respective attribute. Ventus being pure light (pointed out by Even, later Vexen) and Vanitas pure darkness.

It is however a interesting viewpoint.
 

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Vanitas is by no means a Heartless. Ruran pretty much took the cake, here. Like Namine, Vanitas is slightly different than anything we know of, and I'd consider him even MORE ambiguous than her. How he even got a physical form in the first place is somewhat of a conundrum, and what happens to him after his 'defeat' is also up in the air. There's simply not enough to go on in order to classify him.

He's not human.
He's the source of the Unversed, but I'm not sure that makes him one. But it COULD, I suppose. If we knew a bit more about the Unversed themselves other than that he creates them from negative emotion; we might be able to classify him as one.
 

davidXIIIaxel

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Vanitas is by no means a Heartless. Ruran pretty much took the cake, here. Like Namine, Vanitas is slightly different than anything we know of, and I'd consider him even MORE ambiguous than her. How he even got a physical form in the first place is somewhat of a conundrum, and what happens to him after his 'defeat' is also up in the air. There's simply not enough to go on in order to classify him.

He's not human.
He's the source of the Unversed, but I'm not sure that makes him one. But it COULD, I suppose. If we knew a bit more about the Unversed themselves other than that he creates them from negative emotion; we might be able to classify him as one.
i dont think he's an unversed. yet he got his human form or body form from ventus, i think the reason he got his form to look like sora is because sora atleast to what i think i could be wrong, was the source of ventus's heart from the beginning. what i mean is, when in the beginning of the game when it showed ventus's heart not complete i think it was sora's heart/light that completed it. what do you think, chibihearts249?
 

FangirlfromHell

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i dont think he's an unversed. yet he got his human form or body form from ventus, i think the reason he got his form to look like sora is because sora atleast to what i think i could be wrong, was the source of ventus's heart from the beginning. what i mean is, when in the beginning of the game when it showed ventus's heart not complete i think it was sora's heart/light that completed it. what do you think, chibihearts249?
Sorry, I know I'm the wrong user. Yes, that is exactly why Vanitas looks like Sora. Sora's newborn heart made their fragments solidfy, altering Vanitas' from beneath the mask. Just like Ven's heart being in touch with Sora's is what altered Roxas' appearance.
 

davidXIIIaxel

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Sorry, I know I'm the wrong user. Yes, that is exactly why Vanitas looks like Sora. Sora's newborn heart made their fragments solidfy, altering Vanitas' from beneath the mask. Just like Ven's heart being in touch with Sora's is what altered Roxas' appearance.
its all good fangirlfromhell. :) i do feel that vanitas is coming back but to face either sora or if they bring back ventus somehow through sora's heart to try to remake the X-blade. what do you think?
 

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i dont think he's an unversed. yet he got his human form or body form from ventus, i think the reason he got his form to look like sora is because sora atleast to what i think i could be wrong, was the source of ventus's heart from the beginning. what i mean is, when in the beginning of the game when it showed ventus's heart not complete i think it was sora's heart/light that completed it. what do you think, chibihearts249?
Yup! That's right. Fangirl totally ninja'd me to this one XD

And I'm not saying that I'm 100% positive he's an Unversed. It's just that - since they come from him in the first place - he's more like them than anything else. At least, I think so.
 

davidXIIIaxel

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Yup! That's right. Fangirl totally ninja'd me to this one XD

And I'm not saying that I'm 100% positive he's an Unversed. It's just that - since they come from him in the first place - he's more like them than anything else. At least, I think so.
i can understand. but do you guys think that there will be a show down between vanitas and sora? or are they gonna finish the battle with ventus and vanitas. i have a strong feeling that vanitas will be coming back stronger than ever. maybe he'll bring back the unversed of be with the heartless. maybe through kingdom hearts if they can remake it they'll give him a heart. who knows but what do you guys think?
 

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i can understand. but do you guys think that there will be a show down between vanitas and sora? or are they gonna finish the battle with ventus and vanitas. i have a strong feeling that vanitas will be coming back stronger than ever. maybe he'll bring back the unversed of be with the heartless. maybe through kingdom hearts if they can remake it they'll give him a heart. who knows but what do you guys think?
It's hard to say. In the end Vanitas and Ven will have to duke it out again I think. Sora will likely be busy with Master Xehanort. Though if Vanitas does get his own 'light' portion of a heart I'd like to see Xion make a come back. A lot of fans undermine just how important she actually is to Sora's very well-being.
 

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We see the chunk of Ven's heart that would eventually be turned into Vanitas be swallowed up by darkness before Vanitas himself emerged in a fetal position. I reckon that Vanitas's body is made of darkness, though how that happened exactly isn't clear.

Vanitas has Sora's face because Sora connected to Ven's fractured heart filling in the gap. Vanitas taking on Sora's face has something to do with a second hand connection that happened when Sora occupied the fracture because that's were Vanitas emerged. At least, that's my understanding of it.

I consider Vanitas a sort of "ani-human" if that makes sense. The Unversed get their name because "they're not well versed in their own existence" and "are the opposite of human life". Vanitas is the same to a broader extent, an empty creature made of darkness, born of fear, and nurtured by negativity. He has no desire for prosperity of any sort and even his self preservation is questionable.

All living things have light in them, even people like Xehanort and Maleficent and they're the scourge of the universe. As such, they have some willingness for improvement, even if it's just for themselves. Vanitas on the other hand seems to have no desire other than to see the world burn just because he can make it happen. He's all Thanatos and no Eros, lacking a speck of nourishing light that motivates everyone in some shape or form to preserve or improve positively.
 

davidXIIIaxel

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It's hard to say. In the end Vanitas and Ven will have to duke it out again I think. Sora will likely be busy with Master Xehanort. Though if Vanitas does get his own 'light' portion of a heart I'd like to see Xion make a come back. A lot of fans undermine just how important she actually is to Sora's very well-being.
yes you are right with xion being a very important piece of sora's well-being. without xion ventus roxas and vanitas possibly, sora wouldnt be the way he is. a bringer of light and the keyblade master. thats what i think. i could be wrong. and i would think that ven and vanitas will be fighting again. but this time it'll either be the official end of ven or vanitas and or maybe both. who knows.
 

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I'm not sure about Vanitas and Sora, per say. But if they DID meet properly, it would open up the possibility of talking about how Sora healed Ven's heart and that's how they were connected in the first place. Those 2 things go hand-in-hand.

There's a theory on a thread I posted in recently that says Young Xehanort's cameo battle in BbS (the cloaked figure) was actually because YX was traveling to the future to pick up Vanitas. Since it's speculated whether Vanitas is one of the 13 Darknesses, and he is ALSO shown in the KH3 teaser near the end of the 2.5 commercial...This could very well be fairly accurate. I figure that after Vanitas' defeat, he becomes a sort of apparition that clings to YX (as seen in BbS) until his strength returns.

But this is all just a crazy theory.
 

davidXIIIaxel

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We see the chunk of Ven's heart that would eventually be turned into Vanitas be swallowed up by darkness before Vanitas himself emerged in a fetal position. I reckon that Vanitas's body is made of darkness, though how that happened exactly isn't clear.

Vanitas has Sora's face because Sora connected to Ven's fractured heart filling in the gap. Vanitas taking on Sora's face has something to do with a second hand connection that happened when Sora occupied the fracture because that's were Vanitas emerged. At least, that's my understanding of it.

I consider Vanitas a sort of "ani-human" if that makes sense. The Unversed get their name because "they're not well versed in their own existence" and "are the opposite of human life". Vanitas is the same to a broader extent, an empty creature made of darkness, born of fear, and nurtured by negativity. He has no desire for prosperity of any sort and even his self preservation is questionable.

All living things have light in them, even people like Xehanort and Maleficent and they're the scourge of the universe. As such, they have some willingness for improvement, even if it's just for themselves. Vanitas on the other hand seems to have no desire other than to see the world burn just because he can make it happen. He's all Thanatos and no Eros, lacking a speck of nourishing light that motivates everyone in some shape or form to preserve or improve positively.
though sora has a great part in the bringing of vanitas, so does ventus. because even though ventus was innocent and full of light because of sora, vanitas was extracted from ventus' darkness, thus taking the darkness from ventus making him 100% full of light.

I'm not sure about Vanitas and Sora, per say. But if they DID meet properly, it would open up the possibility of talking about how Sora healed Ven's heart and that's how they were connected in the first place. Those 2 things go hand-in-hand.

There's a theory on a thread I posted in recently that says Young Xehanort's cameo battle in BbS (the cloaked figure) was actually because YX was traveling to the future to pick up Vanitas. Since it's speculated whether Vanitas is one of the 13 Darknesses, and he is ALSO shown in the KH3 teaser near the end of the 2.5 commercial...This could very well be fairly accurate. I figure that after Vanitas' defeat, he becomes a sort of apparition that clings to YX (as seen in BbS) until his strength returns.

But this is all just a crazy theory.
thats actually a great theory since we dont really know what happened to vanitas. i mean he dissappeared into darkness. so maybe he was picked up or he survived and is regaining his strength for his final frontation.
 
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I don't think Nomura intended this, but frankly I don't see how it's much different.


Vanitas was extracted from the darkness in Ventus's heart, which kind of makes him a heartless by definition. And that would leave Ventus (who lost all memory and had to reform his identity) a nobody, much like Roxas after him.


Thoughts?
If vanitas was to be categorized as a certain type of enemy I would label him under unversed since he is the one that spawns all of them. I think the first heartless was the extra boss that aqua fights in BBS FM inside the realm of darkness.
 

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We see the chunk of Ven's heart that would eventually be turned into Vanitas be swallowed up by darkness before Vanitas himself emerged in a fetal position. I reckon that Vanitas's body is made of darkness, though how that happened exactly isn't clear.

Vanitas has Sora's face because Sora connected to Ven's fractured heart filling in the gap. Vanitas taking on Sora's face has something to do with a second hand connection that happened when Sora occupied the fracture because that's were Vanitas emerged. At least, that's my understanding of it.
This:

-- How did you decide on the design for their faces?
Nomura: Well Terra's look was already a decided thing, we just had to make him look a bit younger. I knew that Ventus should look either like Sora or Roxas, and I wasn't sure which one to go with, but I thought Vanitas looking like Sora would have a bigger impact so I had Ventus look like Roxas instead. And there is a reason that Vanitas looks like Sora. As Sora filled in Ventus' fractured heart, the fractured part (Vanitas) was effected by Sora and ended up with Sora's face. So if it had been Riku who had filled in Ventus' heart, Vanitas would have looked like Riku.
Vanitas only has indirect connections to Sora thanks to Ventus. On top of that Sora didn't affect Vanitas stability because Vanitas was already stable.
The scene were he was created shows he's perfectly able to stand and talk just fine while Ventus was the one fading away.

All Sora did was give Ventus a leg to stand on till he could function on his own like Vanitas as hearts eventually grow.

As for Vanitas' species, I tend to see him as more of a "unversed prime". It's from him all unversed are made and the negativity to cause this, as Vanitas discribes, was their separation.
So not really human, no where near a heartless, just a person's darkness running lose.
 

ChibiHearts249

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Anagram said:
As for Vanitas' species, I tend to see him as more of a "unversed prime". It's from him all unversed are made and the negativity to cause this, as Vanitas discribes, was their separation.
So not really human, no where near a heartless, just a person's darkness running lose.
Finally! Someone who sees that the way I do.
It's hard to classify someone/something that comes from the KH series with the information we have ^_^'
 
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