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Is Kingdom Hearts poorly written?



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KeyToDestiny

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Because it makes them relatable. Relatability is the key to telling a good story. Why do you think so many fans fell in love with Roxas, or with Riku, or Xion? People grow attached to characters that they can sympathize with, and the best way to get players to sympathize with characters is to give said characters depth and personal struggles.
Why do you feel the need to relate to a fictional character? People fell in love with Roxas and Riku because they were cool, badass characters back in the days. That was essentially it. People loved the gameplay prospects they brought that wasn't just playing as Sora.
 

AR829038

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Why do you feel the need to relate to a fictional character? People fell in love with Roxas and Riku because they were cool, badass characters back in the days. That was essentially it. People loved the gameplay prospects they brought that wasn't just playing as Sora.
You're absolutely wrong. Pretty much anybody on this thread I reckon would testify that they fell in love with certain characters in this series because of deep personal connections they established with them through playing the series. I'm sorry your experience with the series was so shallow that you can't experience that same connection, and from what it sounds like, you can't experience that with any story, which honestly makes me feel sorry for you. The vast majority of people can relate to fictional characters. That's the point of any halfway decent story. Otherwise, stories are little more than empty entertainment, and the bulk of human history in literature and cinema and every other narrative medium proves that that simply isn't the case.
 

Shramp

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Why are you looking for realistic personalities in fictional characters from a Disney games for kids?
I mean, you can't really use the "it's for kids" excuse when Nomura makes it obvious he wants to make a... not really "mature" but "less juvenile" game with a sophisticated plot. Whether or not he actually accomplishes that is a matter of opinion, I guess.
 

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I don't think it was poorly written, and it greatly annoys me when people perpetuate the meme that "KH has ALWAYS been like this". I could not disagree more, I think there's a big difference between cheesy dialogue and wooden dialogue, and games post 2010 have by and large been leaning more to the latter. But the biggest difference between games then vs now is that we very rarely ever get payoff that's worth the setup these days, in fact it's almost endless set up, and I think this affects how people feel about the writing more than anything else, in fact that's where a great deal of my issues with KH3 lie: the total absence of payoff for certain sub plots and the weak payoff for the main plot

Take the case of the first four titles for example: KH1, CoM, and KH2, and Days. These were the games when the series' writing was at its best imo. Nomura had a certain magic touch back then that he seems to have lost nowadays, and that mostly refers to the way he
I think it helps he didn't actually write the story for those games, even Days iirc, it was that he wrote the dialogue and Kanemaki was scenario writer? Not entirely sure, but on the rest of your post, I agree greatly but while I see where you're coming from regarding MX in KH3, I just can't really find it in me to see it as anything except poorly written and poorly executed
 

KeyToDestiny

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I mean, you can't really use the "it's for kids" excuse when Nomura makes it obvious he wants to make a... not really "mature" but "less juvenile" game with a sophisticated plot. Whether or not he actually accomplishes that is a matter of opinion, I guess.
I can say for kids because it is marketed for just that. For kids. The story for the most part is still very juvenile thanks to the higher Disney presence to it.
You're absolutely wrong. Pretty much anybody on this thread I reckon would testify that they fell in love with certain characters in this series because of deep personal connections they established with them through playing the series. I'm sorry your experience with the series was so shallow that you can't experience that same connection, and from what it sounds like, you can't experience that with any story, which honestly makes me feel sorry for you. The vast majority of people can relate to fictional characters. That's the point of any halfway decent story. Otherwise, stories are little more than empty entertainment, and the bulk of human history in literature and cinema and every other narrative medium proves that that simply isn't the case.
Nah I'm right. You're the one looking at the minority while I'm looking at the majority. You probably weren't even around during the 2000s when the fanbase was mostly loving those two because of simply looking badass and how fun their gameplay styles was. Like Roxas for example. Having two keyblades was enough for people to fawn over him. But hey, you go on diving into games hoping you can relate to fictional characters because it's something that absolutely must happen for you to enjoy the game for you.
 

AR829038

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I can say for kids because it is marketed for just that. For kids. The story for the most part is still very juvenile thanks to the higher Disney presence to it.

Nah I'm right. You're the one looking at the minority while I'm looking at the majority. You probably weren't even around during the 2000s when the fanbase was mostly loving those two because of simply looking badass and how fun their gameplay styles was. Like Roxas for example. Having two keyblades was enough for people to fawn over him. But hey, you go on diving into games hoping you can relate to fictional characters because it's something that absolutely must happen for you to enjoy the game for you.
Well, you clearly only hung around shallow people who didn't care for the games beyond their gameplay. Everyone I've ever seen, either in person or on the internet, who's ever played the game has expressed personal and emotional investment in the story.
Btw, I was born in 1996. I was playing the first KH game when it was the only one around. I got Chain of Memories on the GBA the first day it released, son. I'm as much a time-tested veteran of this series as anybody else.
 

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Nah I'm right. You're the one looking at the minority while I'm looking at the majority. You probably weren't even around during the 2000s when the fanbase was mostly loving those two because of simply looking badass and how fun their gameplay styles was. Like Roxas for example. Having two keyblades was enough for people to fawn over him. But hey, you go on diving into games hoping you can relate to fictional characters because it's something that absolutely must happen for you to enjoy the game for you.
Not a good look on you man xD

It's not at all about looking for characters to relate to, but absolutely about losing yourself in a game and for that to happen characters need to at least give a semblance of being more than one dimensional, it just so happens that writing good characters lets people relate to them
 

KeyToDestiny

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Well, you clearly only hung around shallow people who didn't care for the games beyond their gameplay. Everyone I've ever seen, either in person or on the internet, who's ever played the game has expressed personal and emotional investment in the story.
Btw, I was born in 1996. I was playing the first KH game when it was the only one around. I got Chain of Memories on the GBA the first day it released, son. I'm as much a time-tested veteran of this series as anybody else.
So people who care for the gameplay aspects of the game are shallow now? Lol. Maybe leave your bubble so you can go see the reality of why most people play these games to begin with.

Not a good look on you man xD

It's not at all about looking for characters to relate to, but absolutely about losing yourself in a game and for that to happen characters need to at least give a semblance of being more than one dimensional, it just so happens that writing good characters lets people relate to them
If you are looking to relate to fictional characters instead of focusing on the game, then perhaps your priorities need to be in better order. Especially in a game where the story around the characters.....make up the lesser parts of the overall game itself when it comes to screentime.
 

AR829038

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So people who care for the gameplay aspects of the game are shallow now? Lol. Maybe leave your bubble so you can go see the reality of why most people play these games to begin with.
No, you weren't listening. People who ONLY play a series like this for the gameplay are shallow. People who don't look any deeper than that. And that's fine, because not everyone has to enjoy games on that level. I can respect that, even if it does seem shallow to me. What I don't respect is you being condescending and acting like people who DO look deeper than the gameplay are somehow weird for doing so. In that respect, I can promise you buddy, you are very much in the minority here.
 

Cumguardian69

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So people who care for the gameplay aspects of the game are shallow now? Lol. Maybe leave your bubble so you can go see the reality of why most people play these games to begin with.
It definitely ain't gameplay considering no game aside from Re:coded touched the heights of 2FM. It can't be character interactions because everyone is forced into an arbitrary TriO. it can't be story (lmfao the Keyblade is a tool of destruction...except it's not...but then there are these keyblade masters that existed in ancient times...but ACTUALLY we're in unreality). It could've been music then MoM gutted the choices...
 

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So people who care for the gameplay aspects of the game are shallow now? Lol. Maybe leave your bubble so you can go see the reality of why most people play these games to begin with.
People who ONLY play a series like this for the gameplay are shallow.
You can respect people's preferences for games without being condescending to the other, I can easily see why the coolness factor of Riku and Roxas is enough for someone to enjoy his character but its just as valid for people to want to look a little bit deeper. I don't think it's shallow to only want to play a game for its gameplay but that doesn't mean it's ridiculous to want to play a game for its story
 

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Some games are better than others, some moments better than others. I think Kingdom Hearts still gets small character interactions right. The plot has always been convoluted but got worse with the introduction of time travel. The series is at its best when it does what it set out to do, meld the Disney worlds into an original story. The first game pulled this off the best and it has been hit or miss since then.
This. KH1's story has that charm that magic. KH1 knew its intentions of being an amalgamation between Disney and original story with a hint of Final Fantasy, and they've done it...gracefully. It's the ONLY game that's done the integration with the two right without being forced.

Chain of Memories and Days, however despite the Disney worlds being so irrelevant, is honestly another instance of the story being well written. The mystery of Sora, Donald, and Goofy traveling through Castle Oblivion, the mystery behind Namine and the Organization, the introduction to Riku's redemption arc, it's honestly to be admired, really...it just didn't sit well with me when Sora had to factory reset all of it.

Then there's Days. Though I can't say RAX is my favorite trio, I do have to say that Nomura really has written the characters well. Then when you see the cutscenes in 1.5, you can't help just...be encaptivated by the delivery is to such impactful scenes like Roxas confronting Axel. Days, not my favorite game and RAX aren't my favorite among the trios, but I do have to give credit where credit's due.

Unfortunately, that's when things started to deter from both the original and Disney aspects. KH2 seems to be fine on a gameplay standpoint, which is probably why people on this community REALLY want to put this game on such a high pedestal, but the story there was just...weak. And then came BBS, DDD, Re:Coded, and then just...all the other games that come after aside from Days, where the crossover aspect and the original aspect just fell flat. Now, the game is at a point where I question what's the point of traveling to the Disney worlds again?

No, you weren't listening. People who ONLY play a series like this for the gameplay are shallow.
It's a quote like this that makes me wonder...is THAT why people put KH2 at such a high pedestal?
 

KeyToDestiny

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No, you weren't listening. People who ONLY play a series like this for the gameplay are shallow. People who don't look any deeper than that. And that's fine, because not everyone has to enjoy games on that level. I can respect that, even if it does seem shallow to me. What I don't respect is you being condescending and acting like people who DO look deeper than the gameplay are somehow weird for doing so. In that respect, I can promise you buddy, you are very much in the minority here.
Gameplay is literally the most important thing about the game itself lol. What am I even reading here?

It definitely ain't gameplay considering no game aside from Re:coded touched the heights of 2FM. It can't be character interactions because everyone is forced into an arbitrary TriO. it can't be story (lmfao the Keyblade is a tool of destruction...except it's not...but then there are these keyblade masters that existed in ancient times...but ACTUALLY we're in unreality). It could've been music then MoM gutted the choices...
Your personal preference on gameplay =/= everyone's personal preference on gameplay.
 

AR829038

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Gameplay is literally the most important thing about the game itself lol. What am I even reading here?
Then explain why so many people love 358/2 Days' story even though the gameplay was dull and intolerable according to most fans. If gameplay is the most important aspect in any given game, then by that logic Days shouldn't have any kind of fanbase. But that's not exactly the case, is it? Conversely, explain why the majority of the fanbase doesn't like Re: Coded, which was a comparatively much better game, but had a weak story.
Gameplay is an important aspect of any game, but it's not always the most important, and for a lot of people, story and characters are more important.
 

KeyToDestiny

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Then explain why so many people love 358/2 Days' story even though the gameplay was dull and intolerable according to most fans. If gameplay is the most important aspect in any given game, then by that logic Days shouldn't have any kind of fanbase. But that's not exactly the case, is it? Conversely, explain why the majority of the fanbase doesn't like Re: Coded, which was a comparatively much better game, but had a weak story.
Gameplay is an important aspect of any game, but it's not always the most important, and for a lot of people, story and characters are more important.
This is why I told you to leave your bubble because while Days did pretty well sales-wise(because it's a KH game), it's criticized more than any other entries besides maybe DDD because of the dull gameplay which makes it one of the weaker entries to a good chunk of people despite it's supposed "good story"(I'm not even going to touch that one because....lol) And not sure what you're on about because a lot of people did like Re:Coded.

Honestly there's no point going back and forth about this any further. I'm getting bored of this discussion. I prefer the gameplay above all(seeing as the original story aspects are put on the backburner for every KH game) and you prefer the story and characters. Neither one of us is gonna change that.
 

KeyToDestiny

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Hmmm to both of you claiming Days has a well written story on KHInsider, talk about irony
Not sure if you noticed my sarcasm there lol..... I am one of the more vocal haters of Day's story. Felt it was awful and that Xion should have never existed to begin with.
 

Cumguardian69

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Your personal preference on gameplay =/= everyone's personal preference on gameplay.
It's not preference, it's facts. Shit like Spark/ra/ga are literally unusable against humanoid bosses in DDD (same with ARS ARCANUM), pre 1.08 attacks in 3 are hella sluggish, Keyblade strikes are useless in BBS compared to TSurge. X/UX are literal feckin gachas, etc.
 
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