Huge Xemnas Theory, Including Why He didn't use a Keyblade (spoilers)

[Vani]

Seriously? Even before the trailer with the golden eye?

I'm honestly curious now. How'd you guys come up with that?

Well i thought Ventus was a nobody and since he looked like roxas i figured his heartless-in-a-way Vanitas would look like Roxass', Sora.

 

[chasespicer056]

I just had a feeling. Why would Nomura hide a face so badly? Because it is a major plot twist. Evil Sora.....hmmm

Well i thought Ventus was a nobody and since he looked like roxas i figured his heartless-in-a-way Vanitas would look like Roxass', Sora.

Damn. You guys are good. That one completely blew my mind.

Okay scratch that part HeartSeams cuz for all I know you might have been thinking that too.

 

[burnley95]

Yup I usually figure out things on the sidelines

 

[duuuf08]

Hipocritical

okay, so heartseam's getting all pissed off at people who need proof that Roxas has Ven's heart. She clearly expresses that she doesn't need something that is written to know that roxas has a damn heart. Yet earlier, she complains on how keyblades (which are counterparts of hearts) don't give off emotions/personalities. because there is no proof in this world yet that keyblades give off those traits. We are dealing with someone who doesn't think clearly. XD First off heartseam, why the hell are you trying to prove people wrong so much when this videogame series is ALWAYS full of surprises? Personally, i do think keyblades do give off emotions (with proof of xion and roxas showing them). Keyblades have been known to "choose" their wielders as stated in KH1. Let me note that when sora let jack sparrow hold his keyblade, the keyblade rejected him. In BBS, Kairi held onto Aqua's keyblade and 13 years later, SHAZAAM! she was able to hold a keyblade. Nomura even stated that little kairi touching the keyblade meant she was passed the power. Again, jack sparrow held the keyblade and was REJECTED. Most likely because the keyblade didn't like Jack's personality of being a selfish money-hungry pirate and would rather be with a young boy who helps people of different worlds live happy lives. KEYBLADES DO HAVE SOULS!!! Riku gained a keyblade called "way to Dawn" which was gained when he walked the road to Twilight. A keyblade of light and darkness...pretty much sums up riku's personality, eh? a boy who lingers between light and darkness, helping the light while he constantly stays in the shadows. The keyblade chose it's wielder to have it's power. Nobodies don't have hearts. Why would xemnas bring a SOMEBODY into the organization and give his a new name? You can't JUST say "xemnas didn't know". Roxas is no exception, but xion and roxas had keyblades. They were the only ones who expressed emotions. There is enough evidence to say that keyblades have emotions/personalities...but compared to heartseam's rant on how roxas has ven's heart because she JUST knows it but tries her best to debunk someone's theory on how keyblades have personalities/emotions...it's just not impressing.

 

[Sign]

^ Before you type posts like that, it'd help to actually know what you're talking about, and not bash people who do. I may not know HeartSeams very well, but it's obvious that she's one of the most knowledgeable people here about the series.

 

[duuuf08]

^ Before you type posts like that, it'd help to actually know what you're talking about, and not bash people who do. I may not know HeartSeams very well, but it's obvious that she's one of the most knowledgeable people here about the series.

So everything i just posted showed the fact i know nothing about the kingdom hearts series...haha! you are funny kid. I am bashing someone who tries their best to make everone around her feel stupid...as she says "You seriously need someone to actually say "this is how it is" for you to understand how something is? That is so pathetic. Do you not understand how "Show, Don't Tell" works? Ugh. Ugh. UGH." and she tries debunking the person who made this thread's theory because it doesn't have proof from Nomura. she later states that Roxas has a heart but doesn't need written proof because she knows he does. "I don't need Nomura to say it bluntly to know it is the truth."
I may not know Heartsem either, but how she presents herself on this forum, i don't think i want to know her. I don't need you to tell me that it's not right how i spoke about her. It's not right that she's acting like this. She needs to grow up, and so do you. If i were you, I would take your own advice of actually knowing what you're talking about before you type posts, kiddo. Hipocrits...sooo many of them.

 

[Relix]

Re: Hipocritical

okay, so heartseam's getting all pissed off at people who need proof that Roxas has Ven's heart. She clearly expresses that she doesn't need something that is written to know that roxas has a damn heart. Yet earlier, she complains on how keyblades (which are counterparts of hearts) don't give off emotions/personalities. because there is no proof in this world yet that keyblades give off those traits. We are dealing with someone who doesn't think clearly. XD First off heartseam, why the hell are you trying to prove people wrong so much when this videogame series is ALWAYS full of surprises? Personally, i do think keyblades do give off emotions (with proof of xion and roxas showing them). Keyblades have been known to "choose" their wielders as stated in KH1. Let me note that when sora let jack sparrow hold his keyblade, the keyblade rejected him. In BBS, Kairi held onto Aqua's keyblade and 13 years later, SHAZAAM! she was able to hold a keyblade. Nomura even stated that little kairi touching the keyblade meant she was passed the power. Again, jack sparrow held the keyblade and was REJECTED. Most likely because the keyblade didn't like Jack's personality of being a selfish money-hungry pirate and would rather be with a young boy who helps people of different worlds live happy lives. KEYBLADES DO HAVE SOULS!!! Riku gained a keyblade called "way to Dawn" which was gained when he walked the road to Twilight. A keyblade of light and darkness...pretty much sums up riku's personality, eh? a boy who lingers between light and darkness, helping the light while he constantly stays in the shadows. The keyblade chose it's wielder to have it's power. Nobodies don't have hearts. Why would xemnas bring a SOMEBODY into the organization and give his a new name? You can't JUST say "xemnas didn't know". Roxas is no exception, but xion and roxas had keyblades. They were the only ones who expressed emotions. There is enough evidence to say that keyblades have emotions/personalities...but compared to heartseam's rant on how roxas has ven's heart because she JUST knows it but tries her best to debunk someone's theory on how keyblades have personalities/emotions...it's just not impressing.

Actually...Sora was the only exception to being "chosen" by the keyblade. Everyone else went through a "Rite of Succession" (even Kairi even though hers was unintentional). And the keyblade is not a "counterpart" to the heart. No one really knows what the keyblade really is but a counterpart? Not really. Xion isn't a nobody, she is basically a perfected Riku Replica, who had emotions by the way and no keyblade so... I don't know what you'll do with that, basically they had artificial hearts (riku replica and xion that is). Roxas IS a nobody just with someone else's (besides Sora, the body and soul he is using) heart. Which makes him the nobody of Sora. Because he is using Sora's body and soul. The game drop off all these hints.

 

[duuuf08]

Re: Hipocritical

Actually...Sora was the only exception to being "chosen" by the keyblade. Everyone else went through a "Rite of Succession" (even Kairi even though hers was unintentional). And the keyblade is not a "counterpart" to the heart. No one really knows what the keyblade really is but a counterpart? Not really. Xion isn't a nobody, she is basically a perfected Riku Replica, who had emotions by the way and no keyblade so... I don't know what you'll do with that, basically they had artificial hearts (riku replica and xion that is). Roxas IS a nobody just with someone else's (besides Sora, the body and soul he is using) heart. Which makes him the nobody of Sora. Because he is using Sora's body and soul. The game drop off all these hints.

Sorry, i shoulda been a little more clear. Yeah, xion's a clone made from Sora's memories but she did have a keyblade. Well she had a cloned version of a keyblade which is why riku says "this keyblades nothing but a sham" and as stated earlier on this forum by the author, xehaort writes that "keyblades are a manmade couterpart of kingdom hearts) and kingdom hearts is made solely of people's hearts. And yeah, i covered the whole rite of succession with kairi and riku but when riku turned to darkness, the keyblade picked sora to be it's wielder. BUT a keyblade from Twilight picked Riku to be it's holder when riku walked the road of twilight. But what i still don't get is " Roxas IS a nobody just with someone else's (besides Sora, the body and soul he is using) hearts. Which makes him the nobody of Sora." So how cold roxas be a nobody with someone else's heart. He would be called a nobody at all, just a new somebody.

 

[duuuf08]

Re: Hipocritical

Also, if i may add, DiZ says to Roxas "ou are half of sora". Sure, it sounds like Roxas has half of sora's heart...but that's not the case. It has been officially stated by Nomura that Sora in Chain of Memories up to the beginning of KH2 was a walking heart. The half Roxas posseses is Sora's body. But Roxas having Sora's body and half of Sora's heart just doesn't sound right when sora is left with only half a heart.

 

[Relix]

Re: Hipocritical

Sorry, i shoulda been a little more clear. Yeah, xion's a clone made from Sora's memories but she did have a keyblade. Well she had a cloned version of a keyblade which is why riku says "this keyblades nothing but a sham" and as stated earlier on this forum by the author, xehaort writes that "keyblades are a manmade couterpart of kingdom hearts) and kingdom hearts is made solely of people's hearts. And yeah, i covered the whole rite of succession with kairi and riku but when riku turned to darkness, the keyblade picked sora to be it's wielder. BUT a keyblade from Twilight picked Riku to be it's holder when riku walked the road of twilight. But what i still don't get is " Roxas IS a nobody just with someone else's (besides Sora, the body and soul he is using) hearts. Which makes him the nobody of Sora." So how cold roxas be a nobody with someone else's heart. He would be called a nobody at all, just a new somebody.

but you have to remember that just by the way he was created can classify him as a nobody. the body and soul of someone else given life without the body and soul's original heart. and another thing that makes Roxas not exactly another person is the fact that Ven's heart isn't complete. it can't function probably the way it is. that is why he had to have Sora harbor him and why he is in a comatose state. Now Roxas (a being thats not supposed to have a heart in the first place) has this broken heart, he can animate and move but still benefit from the incomplete heart.

And Ven isn't half of Sora. Sora basically has 1.5 a heart compacity, 1 body, 1 soul. Roxas takes 1 body, 1 soul, and .5 that was Ven.

 

[duuuf08]

Re: Hipocritical

Well, Roxas is a nobody. Creatures that linger between light and darkness. Nobodies don't have heart, so they don't possess light or darkness in their beings but they choose to follow the light or darkness. I wuld understand if nobodies were to be made of darkness and Roxas was able to complete ven's fractured heart in his body, butthat's not the case. But if you are right about Roxas being able to live on a fractured heart, then that would mean he was able to comple the fractured heart...which is only by giving it darkness. "Now Roxas (a being thats not supposed to have a heart in the first place) has this broken heart, he can animate and move but still benefit from the incomplete heart." Early Ven and Roxas both had a body, soul, and fractured heart...but ven almost died and Roxas acted normal...i don't think i can wrap my mind around Roxas being able to live on a fractured heart because he's a new creation not meant to have a heart...he would have to complete it somehow.

 

[duuuf08]

Re: Hipocritical

but...unless...If roxas had ven's fractured heart...and lived in the darkness (The world that never was", then i guess it would seep into his being and complete him...but then Roxas wouldn't be a nobody at all because he has a complete heart, not a fractured one. And as the xemnas states, kingdom hearts would complete them by bringing them a heart...which roxas would have. Complete being a normal person. I mean, i think it would kinda explain why Roxas couldn't remember his first week in the organization because the darkness had to slowly seep in to make him complete...but nomura says that roxas couldn't remember because sora was a heartless for only a short amount of time.

 

[XVBraxinXV]

Chasespicer, this is a wonderful theory! I was going nuts on how everything you said makes sense! Thank you for sharing it! As for this dispute between you and another member, I think I speak for Chase when I say that this IS HIS OPINION. It may be right, or it may be wrong. But don't go telling him he is wrong and ask him for proof when you can't back up your own claim. Sure you can connect the dots and come to the conclusion that Roxas has Ven's heart, but you can connect them to make any conclusion. Don't say it's a fact when Nomura said it MAYBE true that Roxas is holding Ven's heart. This game is about interpretation. This is Chase's interpretation. An opinion. Again, thank you for the theory and sorry for rambling on .

 

[yomitchymitch]

So I'm pretty late to catch onto this theory BUT,
Isn't it implied that Riku has Terra's heart? Yet I have seen no argument on it.
So why can't the same be for Ven/Roxas?
Anywho,
I believe that you are using the word 'Counterpart' incorrectly.
You're saying that keyblades are like kingdom hearts. Yeah?
Well, During the Keyblade War, the Wielders wanted the power of KH for themselves, yet they already had keyblades.
So if Keyblades were like KH, the wielders would have had a power such as one of KH. Follow?
So if it would be true, Wielders would have the amazing power of Kingdom Hearts, or one like it.
And so far, I have yet to see a Wielder have extraordinary powers of a "higher existance" like Xemnas said he would get from KH.
Which would throw off your Keyblade is like a heart/Gives them emotions part.

Other than that, this theory is pretty solid.
Xemnas' mysteries will hopefully unravel in further KH games.
And I'm not an expert of KH, so if anything I said was false, bare with me, and correct me. Thankyou

 

[Silverslide]

HURR MY KEYBLADE IS MAKING ME SAD

@duuuf08

the fuck up son

 

[chasespicer056]

^ Before you type posts like that, it'd help to actually know what you're talking about, and not bash people who do. I may not know HeartSeams very well, but it's obvious that she's one of the most knowledgeable people here about the series.

She is definitely one of the most knowledgeable people on the site. Arrogant, but certainly knows the series.

Chasespicer, this is a wonderful theory! I was going nuts on how everything you said makes sense! Thank you for sharing it! As for this dispute between you and another member, I think I speak for Chase when I say that this IS HIS OPINION. It may be right, or it may be wrong. But don't go telling him he is wrong and ask him for proof when you can't back up your own claim. Sure you can connect the dots and come to the conclusion that Roxas has Ven's heart, but you can connect them to make any conclusion. Don't say it's a fact when Nomura said it MAYBE true that Roxas is holding Ven's heart. This game is about interpretation. This is Chase's interpretation. An opinion. Again, thank you for the theory and sorry for rambling on .

Thank you! I really appreciate all the support you have for me.

Honestly at this point, with the facts outweighing that part of the theory, I don't believe Namine has Ven's heart anymore. But I definitely believe Ven influenced her to some extent. The fact that she was found in C.O. and that she has emotions and blonde hair is too strange and unique to ignore.

So I'm pretty late to catch onto this theory BUT,
Isn't it implied that Riku has Terra's heart? Yet I have seen no argument on it.
So why can't the same be for Ven/Roxas?
Anywho,
I believe that you are using the word 'Counterpart' incorrectly.
You're saying that keyblades are like kingdom hearts. Yeah?
Well, During the Keyblade War, the Wielders wanted the power of KH for themselves, yet they already had keyblades.
So if Keyblades were like KH, the wielders would have had a power such as one of KH. Follow?
So if it would be true, Wielders would have the amazing power of Kingdom Hearts, or one like it.
And so far, I have yet to see a Wielder have extraordinary powers of a "higher existance" like Xemnas said he would get from KH.
Which would throw off your Keyblade is like a heart/Gives them emotions part.

Other than that, this theory is pretty solid.
Xemnas' mysteries will hopefully unravel in further KH games.
And I'm not an expert of KH, so if anything I said was false, bare with me, and correct me. Thankyou

Well Xemnas merged with an incomplete KH. And besides that, MX basically says in his report that an artificial KH isn't nearly as powerful as the real thing.

I was suggesting that considering how closely connected Keyblades are with hearts, they might be able to give people emotions. I didn't mean they were as powerful as KH. But yes, it's possible I'm viewing that definition of counterpart incorrectly. Since MX doesn't expand on what he meant though, that's open to speculation.

Thanks for reading it. =D

 

[Silverslide]

She isn't being arrogant, she actually has a point. You say the keyblade "gives people emotions" when you have nothing to back it up.

 

[chasespicer056]

She isn't being arrogant, she actually has a point. You say the keyblade "gives people emotions" when you have nothing to back it up.

I wasn't specifically referring to that. On multiple occasions she acted as if likely theories and her speculation were facts. Not once did she try to find middle ground. That's arrogance.

Again, I'll give the examples about the Keyblade giving emotions:

*Roxas acts like a zombie until he starts using the Keyblade.
*Xion acts like a zombie until she starts using the Keyblade.
*Mx said that Keyblades are counterparts to KH

Now there is the possibility is that these two were just used to being newly created beings. And it's possible MX did not mean that Keyblades were so similar to hearts that they could give emotions. However, I think that there's more to it to that.

Furthermore, because the Keyblade giving emotions is the only logical reason I can think of for Xemnas not using it, as explained in my theory for this thread, I am inclined to believe that Keyblades do in fact influence their user's emotions.

 

[Silverslide]

I wasn't specifically referring to that. On multiple occasions she acted as if likely theories and her speculation were facts. Not once did she try to find middle ground. That's arrogance.

Again, I'll give the examples about the Keyblade giving emotions:

*Roxas acts like a zombie until he starts using the Keyblade.
*Xion acts like a zombie until she starts using the Keyblade.
*Mx said that Keyblades are counterparts to KH

Now there is the possibility is that these two were just used to being newly created beings. And it's possible MX did not mean that Keyblades were so similar to hearts that they could give emotions. However, I think that there's more to it to that.

Furthermore, because the Keyblade giving emotions is the only logical reason I can think of for Xemnas not using it, as explained in my theory for this thread, I am inclined to believe that Keyblades do in fact influence their user's emotions.

No.

Roxas and Xion were zombies because they were just born. Kind of like babies, they can't do shit until they age. Ok, when Roxas LOST his keyblade when Xion took it, how come he still had emotions, besides, Xion's keyblade is fucking fake. Explain that.

That is fucking ridiculous. Roxas had a heart of his own, that is why he had emotions, Xion was the closest thing to human in the organization so she could have had a fake heart, or could have been emulating them.

 

[chasespicer056]

No.

Roxas and Xion were zombies because they were just born. Kind of like babies, they can't do shit until they age. Ok, when Roxas LOST his keyblade when Xion took it, how come he still had emotions, besides, Xion's keyblade is fucking fake. Explain that.

That is fucking ridiculous. Roxas had a heart of his own, that is why he had emotions, Xion was the closest thing to human in the organization so she could have had a fake heart, or could have been emulating them.

Actually, looking at this more closely, you guys have a point. And even IF I were right, it doesn't make sense for the emotions to make Xemnas like MX. They would just give him emotions period, not change his mind, which, as my theory says, is Terra's mind. And considering Terra had negative emotions too, he might not mind that.

I agree...that part of the theory is flawed. The rest, however, I find no issue with. I firmly believe that Xemnas has Terra's mind.

I'll need to figure out another reason for why he chose not to wield any Keyblade. I'll come up with that soon.