Huge question about Roxas the org and Kingdom Hearts



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wtholyf

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Roxas was a nobody, who just like the rest of the nobodies in the org, who wanted to be real, or to exist. Saix said that each heartless slain by the keyblade adds to kingdom hearts (as long as they collect the hearts). Once kingdom hearts is full of hearts, they can use the power to make themselves "real" (like full beings). Roxas had the power of the keyblade right? Why didn't the org just summon loads of heartless, ask Roxas to kill them, collect the hearts, and repeat the process again. Axel would love that, and so would Roxas and the others. What was the point of using Sora? The instant Roxas joined the org, why didn't Xemnas order that to be done? the could quickly build up kingdom hearts like that, they could even weaken the huge heartless, so that one swing of the keyblade would finish it off. This seems like a huge plot hole you know. The instant Roxas joined the org why wasn't that done? Instead Roxas spent a good deal of time with the org (like a year) and then went to find his "other" to find out why the keyblade choose him. Sora managed to fill kingdom hearts within a short amount of time. A year would have been more then enough for kingdom hearts to fill if Roxas just killed the heartless that the org summoned.
 

TheMuffinMan

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They really didn't explain that, but I would think that since Roxas's keyblades aren't really his, they're kind of fake, and since he himself has no heart, that possibly the keyblade doesn't release the hearts of the heartless when he kills them?
 

wtholyf

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the keyblade (regardless of the wielder) will release the hearts. That's why Marluxia in CoM wanted the keyblade, so he could do what I said. However, it seemed as though Xemnas was agaisnt it (as seen in CoM). Also in deep dive, when Roxas kills some neo shadows their hearts are released.


Edit: When i say Xemnas was agaisnt it in CoM, in CoM it was stated that Marluxia was going against the Org's orders by trying to get the keyblade for himself
 
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Eclipse

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^ but roxas was non-existant. he never really was there, he was just a shell of sora. So his keyblades were just a shell of sora's real keyblades as well
 

wtholyf

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However in deep dive the hearts of the neo shadows are released, not only that but the his keyblades had the same powers

EDIT: by saying Roxas' keyblades are shells of the real keyblades, are you saying that the keyblade is a living thing that has three parts (heart, soul, body)?
 
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Eclipse

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^ no. i was saying that it's not the real keyblade, that it was a fake. Roxas is non-existant, he's not really real. Neither were his keyblades. they were just copies of sora's :p

by the way, the deep dive trailer was a concept trailer, when Nomura made it, he wasn't even planning on a sequel to KH
 

wtholyf

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However, even if it was a concept trailer, it was in the game (not in the FMV style howeve rit was still there). As for his keyblades being fake, lol I don't see how. They seemed to have the same powers as sora. Not only that, but Riku wielded one of Roxas' keyblades, he too used them to extinguish neo shadows and release their hearts.
 

TheMuffinMan

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Marluxia didn't want Sora so that he could fulfil the Organization's plans, he wanted it so that he could overthrow the Organization and become the Superior himself =\

And (this is from a theory way-back-when), but actually, in both FM and COM, when you kill a NEO-Shadow, no heart is released.

It was beleived that they were called NEO-Shadows (NEO = Non-Existant-Ones) for this reason, that they don't release, and possibly aren't made of, hearts

And I just watched DD/ASAS, and I didn't see any of the neo-shadows in the video release hearts :\
 
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HeartofTwilight

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I see the problem there and i really don't know how to answer it. Maybe they did that for a while but then Roxas, being Roxas wanted to leave. Maybe Zexion or someone guessed correctly that he would betray the Organiation and Xemnas knew they couldn't keep Roxas slashing at heartless forever. Sora on the other had would keep using the keyblade untl he found what he was looking for. Roxas does seem rather incoopertive...
 

RikuHeroOfDark

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wtholyf said:
However, even if it was a concept trailer, it was in the game (not in the FMV style howeve rit was still there). As for his keyblades being fake, lol I don't see how. They seemed to have the same powers as sora. Not only that, but Riku wielded one of Roxas' keyblades, he too used them to extinguish neo shadows and release their hearts.
his keyblades are fake.......they are like any other org. members weapons...........they aren't really keyblades but just look like soras keyblades to show the memories he doesnt have...........and you can kill a heartless with anything
 

HeartofTwilight

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RikuHeroofDark has a good point. When Leon, Donald, Goofy, or anyone else kills a heartless, you see the heart being released. I guess after they disapear, the ones release with a keyblade go to kingdom hearts while the others just return to darkness. I think that makes sense. Roxas, now that i think about it, can't be a keyblade master. The Keyblade chooses strong hearts. Roxas doesn't have a heart. Also, when you fight Roxas near Memory's Skyscraper, he is totally shocked when your keyblade comes back. that is beacuse, unlike Orginization whepons that can be summoned but probably stopped (like roxas did with Sora's keybade) real keyblades matirialize in the hand of the Keyblade master.
 

el enano

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Roxas was a nobody, who just like the rest of the nobodies in the org, who wanted to be real, or to exist. Saix said that each heartless slain by the keyblade adds to kingdom hearts (as long as they collect the hearts). Once kingdom hearts is full of hearts, they can use the power to make themselves "real" (like full beings). Roxas had the power of the keyblade right? Why didn't the org just summon loads of heartless, ask Roxas to kill them, collect the hearts, and repeat the process again. Axel would love that, and so would Roxas and the others. What was the point of using Sora? The instant Roxas joined the org, why didn't Xemnas order that to be done? the could quickly build up kingdom hearts like that, they could even weaken the huge heartless, so that one swing of the keyblade would finish it off. This seems like a huge plot hole you know. The instant Roxas joined the org why wasn't that done? Instead Roxas spent a good deal of time with the org (like a year) and then went to find his "other" to find out why the keyblade choose him. Sora managed to fill kingdom hearts within a short amount of time. A year would have been more then enough for kingdom hearts to fill if Roxas just killed the heartless that the org summoned.
remember that roxas left the org before the were trying to be whole
 

el enano

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his keyblades are fake.......they are like any other org. members weapons...........they aren't really keyblades but just look like soras keyblades to show the memories he doesnt have...........and you can kill a heartless with anything
YOU PEOLE GOTTA STOP MAKING SHIT UP AND WAT NOT!!!! ROXAS HAS KEYBLADES BECAUSE HES IS THE NOBODY OF THE ORIGIONAL KEYBLADE MASTER WHICH IS SORA
 
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Eclipse

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the heartless in the kh2 opening fmv, didn't release hearts either. so?
 

HeartofTwilight

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He has no heart, and you need to have a strong heart to weild a Keyblade. They make that REALLY clear in the first game. Also, i think it makes a lot of sense that they are just "shells" (a better word i probably copies) of Soras because Roxas weilds oathkeeper, a one of a kind keyblade that uses Kairi's hand made keychain. See my above post for more reasons it makes sense that Roxas is not a true Keyblade Master.
 

wtholyf

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Um headoftwilight I gotta say I don't know what you said. Hmmm if that's the case (about others having the hearts released). Then are you suggesting that the keyblade exists because of kingdom hearts? Also neo heartless does NOT stand for non-existant-ones, neo heartless, literally means new and improved, and abnormal heartless (that neo is just a conicedence). In dd the hearts DO get released, just because you don't see an acutally heart doesn't mean it's not being released. Not only that but the reason Roxas was surpised was because he simply thought that he had won, he got over confident. Just like a game of chess, the old saying is "the toughtest situation to win is when you are in a winning position." Roxas got to confident and oversaw that factor. I still don't see how Roxas' keyblades are fake. They have the same abilites, when Roxas threw down his keyblade the keyblade returned to him. Not only that but Roxas left the org after one year.

EDIT: True you must have a strong heart to wield the keyblade: However, it is clear that the keyblade choose Roxas, the keyblade returns to Roxas when he casts the weapon away.
 

The Conquerer

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wtholyf said:
Um headoftwilight I gotta say I don't know what you said. Hmmm if that's the case (about others having the hearts released). Then are you suggesting that the keyblade exists because of kingdom hearts? Also neo heartless does NOT stand for non-existant-ones, neo heartless, literally means new and improved, and abnormal heartless (that neo is just a conicedence). In dd the hearts DO get released, just because you don't see an acutally heart doesn't mean it's not being released. Not only that but the reason Roxas was surpised was because he simply thought that he had won, he got over confident. Just like a game of chess, the old saying is "the toughtest situation to win is when you are in a winning position." Roxas got to confident and oversaw that factor. I still don't see how Roxas' keyblades are fake. They have the same abilites, when Roxas threw down his keyblade the keyblade returned to him. Not only that but Roxas left the org after one year.

EDIT: True you must have a strong heart to wield the keyblade: However, it is clear that the keyblade choose Roxas, the keyblade returns to Roxas when he casts the weapon away.
How can Roxas have 2 Keyblades coming from nothing? The Oathkeeper and the Obivion are not even real Keyblades. They are Keychains. Roxas has fake Keblades. Roxas just has weapons created from Sora's memories that has taken form. Roxas does not even have Kairi's lucky charm, which proves that Roxas got the oathkeeper from Sora's memories. This must be true for the obivion as well, he does not have the keychain. The Keyblade that Roxas had in early in the game was progarmmed by Diz, that Data Twilight Town that Roxas was in. The reason why he had the Kingdom Key was because he was in Diz's fake world and he programmed him to have the Kingdom Key. Roxas's real weapons were the fake Keyblades created from Sora's memories.
 

B-ry 3

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but roxas is another part of sora u see them come together in the end so he should be able to summon out some of the keyblades because u cant say that sora only has one keyblade because then how would either of them be able to double wield?
 

The Conquerer

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B-ry 3 said:
but roxas is another part of sora u see them come together in the end so he should be able to summon out some of the keyblades because u cant say that sora only has one keyblade because then how would either of them be able to double wield?
But Roxas does not have a heart. He can't possibly wield the real Keyblade. He had the power to wield something like a Keyblade because he is Sora's nobody. But he cant wield a real Keyblade. Roxas's fake Keyblades can probably open any lock, but they lack the power to seal a world or realease a captive heart from a heartless. Well any weapon would release a heart from a heartless. But only a true Keyblade would send the heart to Kingdom Hearts.
 

A~X~E~L

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I think I've got the answer to the initial question :

KH1, Hollow Bastion :
Sora releases his heart, creating a Nobody. Xemnas recruits this strong Nobody, dubbing him Roxas.

KH:CoM:
Being a special Nobody, he realises something the others Org XIII members don't : he wants to live as an imcomplete person. Therefore, he goes against the Org, refusing to collect hearts.
Later, he is defeated by Riku, brainwashed by DiZ, and placed into Twilight Town to be later absorbed by Sora.

KH2:
With Naminé's help, Roxas recovers HIS memories, not Sora's. He remembers his frienship with Axel, his encounter with Riku, his plans to go against the org.
Once he finally finds Sora, DiZ tells him he is just like a "tool", since he is serving a "servant of the world". At that point, before some reckless Keyblade thrusting, Roxas declares something along the lines : "My heart belongs to me" (ah sweet irony).

Basically, Roxas already though of himself as something complete.
 
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