GameInformer interviews Yasue on KH3's difficulty, post-game content, favorite moments

[DarkosOverlord]

I mean it's pretty easy to come up with ideas when you don't have to grapple with the realities of game development such as budget, resources, time constraints, memory constraints, etc etc Like. there are a thousand reasons why something happens the way it does.

I understand and overall agree with that, that's why I wanted to say I don't just want to play the part of a lazy bum on the couch yelling at people that they could do better.
The problem is... when it comes down to KH III and some specific issues they also could've done better, and sometimes alternative solutions didn't require drastic changes in the course of events or budget increases.

I wouldn't generally say "you should've just done better" out of the blue to a professional, but I'll kinda think it when I see the Kairi treatment or the fact that you've boasted the 4 allies at the same time mechanic throughout the game ands then you don't use it to give me a fight with multiple Guardians of Light.
So it's not that as a general rule people in the fandom are just better at coming up with ideas, of course, but to some extent professionals should see some issues coming and deal with them.

And as others suspect, I too believe they kinda did see some issues coming but decided to play a "there wasn't enough time" card.
I mean, it's basically Nomura's new catchphrase in the interviews.
But when you cut a corner on a paper, you've just made two.
(I think. It was a moral lesson in an old American Dragon episode)

Sora: WE GOTTA FIND ROXAS
Also Sora: Let me spend 10 hours collecting crabs

I’m joking because I really did enjoy collecting the crabs lol but finding Roxas was a plot point for maybe an hour of the story and then it just disappears until Roxas appears at the end of the game and the TAV stuff really doesn’t come into play in any meaningful manner at all until the end. We get a hint every now and then by Sora mentioning needing to find Terra or like one off things like that...but the narrative they think they delivered and the narrative we actually got are not the same.

Yes, exactly. By all means, Roxas is indeed mentioned and kinda brought up over the course of the story (I really like the BH6 moment on the bridge), but it's really discontinuous. Sora has the very big and apt emotional moment about Roxas with Ansem and Xemnas, then it's back to Remy and cooking for levity, which is fine in a way, then it's onto another world like nothing happened. Terra's even worse.
It might've even been done in such a way because Nomura realized they would only appear in the final beats of the game, but... they believe they did a fine job in covering that, we kinda don't.

EDIT: I sound salty, and I probably am. I’m surrounded by drunk cops and have a 3am work shift on a forced work weekend so I’m living in salt. I have also spent two months both really happy about KH3 and also just truly and utterly disappointed to the point of depression so I have a lot of words.

I hear you. I feel bad that I always come off as extremely angry or salty in discussions, I have forcefully imposed on myself not to comment too much on KH III during the first days when I was trying to sort out all the feelings I had, but then everything just piles up and comes out all at once.
It's just that this game hits me on many levels and I have a lot to say so it's hard to keep the frustration at bay.

Now, back to your question: That requires pointing out that Radient Garden in general needed to be a major location in KH3 rather than a cutscene-only world. Radiant Garden is where the Organization began, it’s where a good number of the supporting cast of KH3 originate from, it is also known as the former capitol of light in the Realm of Light, and is where the Door to Darkness lied.

All of this in mind, these concepts should have come back into play in KH3 as a way to retrace Xehanort’s steps in order to try and understand his plan. The big thing KH3 was missing was having the heroes attempt to understand just what the hell was trying to do first hand rather than standing around listening to Yen Sid monologue about his plans. By having Yen Sid explain everything, it completely undermines the impact this should have on both the main cast and the player themself because there is no active attempt at seeking out answers over what the main antagonist is doing. Instead Sora and his friends go on a wild goose chase for absolutely no reason. Why not go to RG to see if there were answers about understanding the Power of Waking...y’know, in the world where Sora faced one of his most important battles when he first began his journey and committed his first act of self-sacrifice for a person he cares about? How about being a place where we could get even a HINT of Xehanort’s true plan to rid the worlds of all beings and of Darkness to make the worlds pure Light?

There is no attempt at having Lea confront his past in order to better guide him in his choices in the future. A place where he was changed into a Nobody and lost his best friend(s) (cuz X/Skuld(?) is a thing now) by Xehanort himself should have major importance to the story. A world where Kairi originated from should have had importance. The world where Mickey and Riku visit to seek out some answers to their own questions should have been given more screen time and have been playable.

And this is where the FF crew would come into play. They run Radiant Garden. They should be the ones delivering information to the main cast, or at least guiding them to where that information is. They should have been trying to confront the apprentices and come to a temporary truce in order to aid Sora and his friends. We should have gotten some more of that stupid “the girl” teasing as well to make it feel less out of the clear blue.

So, literally, they needed to play the same role they served in past numbered KH games because that was always the role that was established for them. The overal story is weaker by having Sora meander about in various Disney worlds and could have been tightened by giving him a hub he could return to whenever he hit a wall in looking for answers. This could have been the perfect place to tie up all of the little connections that were left hanging for no good reason.

I went into KH3 with maybe a handful of expectations, had those expectations met, and still came out underwhelmed on a load of things I didn’t even care about prior to playing the game, so I don’t know what the point of bringing people expectations up has to do with their overall experience with the game. People can go into something without any set expectations and come out of it feeling satisfied or unsatisfied.

I didn’t go into KH3 with the expectation the game would be difficult but I certainly came out wishing it had been.

I can't really act like I needed FF characters badly, not for me at least. But I also can't act like all of this isn't a solid argument and shows the uncertainty in how many new themes got handled in favor of old ones.

It seriously bummed me when I realized that Kairi never properly returned to RG, despite it being the only sensible thing to do for the saga finale.
This is why I said we perhaps needed one more game: Yasue and even Nomura really wanted to focus on Disney worlds and how could they play out on ps4/xbox, and I'm fine with it and giving original worlds the bench, but KH III was literally the worst title to do such a thing. If you made all the Disney worlds experimentation you wanted in another title and put Kairi in training zone then, KH III could've handled all the important bits and maybe even having Kairi coming back to her Grandma's house ("grave" might've been a tad too sad) or something.

"Retracing Xehanort's steps" could've been a much more fleshed out and immersive portion than just Riku and Mickey realizing Terra is being held captive (something fans knew since 2011 so it wasn't exactly a thrilling discovery either), and even Sora getting Master's Defender could've been better by having a lenghty Destiny Islands segment. I mean, it's the birthplace of Xehanort as well as Sora and Riku, played a part inKH1, BbS and 0.2 and whatever confused lore there is about the Kingdom Keys happened there as well. How fitting would've been to go full Half-blood Prince and just focusing on figuring out Xehanort.

And I'm certainly never gonna say that replacing Leon and the gang with lenghty Ienzo exposition was a good idea.
I'm sorry, but Ienzo is such a boring character, propelled in the fandom by the Blank Points and KH II FM moments that seemed to imply he was going to be such a pivotal character in the final clash (I SO knew that wasn't going to be a thing in the end).
No offense to Corazza, but hearing Ienzo talking on and on wasn't exactly what made me excited about KH III.
I mean, whatever problems I might've had with FF cameos in KH was rarely about Leon and the others, and more about the most "pointless" ones like Vivi. I didn't cry because street punk Seifer wasn't in KH III.
But the Restoration Commitee was definitely important to drive at least the "big games trilogy" home. They were the ones who first introduced the concepts of Ansem, Keyblade and Heartless in KH1. They're part of the family, I'll never deny that.
And if I did it in the past... I'll admit I was being too stubborn.

Also yes, as pointed out the reason why we didn't have all of this, the "replacement" provided by Disney worlds, it's so messy that it only adds on the frustration.
Building basically three quarters of the game over a power of waking never heard before DDD was a daring move by itself, but then it only gets worse.
When you sit and think for even a few seconds, you realize there is nothing that ties the power of waking to the Disney worlds. Nothing at all. It's a power Sora had but then lost, and it was a power gained by interacting with seven sleeping keyholes in the realm of dreams. No reason whatsoever to go to Disney worlds. This is why all the times the power od waking is brought the scene just never feels right.
"Sora, what about the power of waking, did you get it back yet?"
"No."
"Oh..."

And that's... it. No one says anything else, because there's nothing else to be said. What SDG are doing throughout the game is useless in terms of their long-term goal and they all ignore it because pointing that out loud would make it blatantly obvious how un-thought this whole plan was.
Of course you can say that going through the worlds had other purposes, like recovering Sora's power and keeping an eye on the Princesses, but that's going from the pan into the oven since those themes are also poorly handled. The Norts don't really do anything with the Princesses because they're waiting on the Guardians of Light. So you just have this stalemate where the villains can't really do any villainous act since they need to preserve both factions of good characters for their own goal. And this is why they're hardly anything more than an annoyance in Disney worlds.
And Sora's lost powers saga begins and ends with Olympus.
Lastly, surprising absolutely no one, the power was in us the entire time and we just needed to point the Keyblade in front of us and hope really hard, much like every other Keyblade technique. And it was such an obvious and inevitable outcome that if that was the road they chose then they should've made a believable and engaging story with double the effort to make it all worth it.

All of this is why whenever they say that there wasn't enough time to do this or that and that it was so because of Disney worlds salt is bound to come. Their whole premise for focusing on some stuff in spite of other things was weak from the storyboard meeting to its execution.

Spot on about this all "expectations" debate too. KH III managed to perform much better than expected in the areas I was most concerned about, and then failed and let me down where I didn't even think it was possible.
Okay, I'll admit Kairi is a case of "fool me twice, shame on me".
But, like... I didn't think they would do friggin' Riku like they did. Or having Terra never interact with either him or Xehanort. I never thought FF characters wouldn't be in the game at all.
Those were not my expectations, or rather my expectations in the sense that I was building up hype specifically for those things.

Of course if it let me down it means some expectations weren't met, but if believing Terra would at least confront his archnemesis that ruined his life or Riku, an already popular and well established character doing more was setting the bar too high, then... eh.

 

[Divine Past]

Sometimes it felt like they wanted this game to be a movie and not an actual game.

 

[drew0512]

Sora: WE GOTTA FIND ROXAS
Also Sora: Let me spend 10 hours collecting crabs

I’m joking because I really did enjoy collecting the crabs lol but finding Roxas was a plot point for maybe an hour of the story and then it just disappears until Roxas appears at the end of the game

What? Roxas (and Naminé) is an important plot point that is referenced during the entire game, from start to finish. It's what bring different people together (Ienzo, Ansem, HPO, Vexen...) because they all share the same goal and it definitely doesn't happen for maybe an hour.

How about being a place where we could get even a HINT of Xehanort’s true plan to rid the worlds of all beings and of Darkness to make the worlds pure Light?

That wasn't his plan. He wanted to bring the world(s) to a blank state. No light and no darkness, tabula rasa.

 

[MelodicEnigma]

So, literally, they needed to play the same role they served in past numbered KH games because that was always the role that was established for them. The overal story is weaker by having Sora meander about in various Disney worlds and could have been tightened by giving him a hub he could return to whenever he hit a wall in looking for answers. This could have been the perfect place to tie up all of the little connections that were left hanging for no good reason.

Basically. It's a problem with narrative consistency.

Not showing the FF characters, who are not even just a part of the Radiant Garden world, but they legit make up the committee that makes it function—this is like going to Olympus Coliseum but not seeing, or even mentioning the whereabouts, of the main cast from that world. The KH team's decision to do this must've made some sense from whatever angle they went about it, but it definitely doesn't from a narrative standpoint.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

What? Roxas (and Naminé) is an important plot point that is referenced during the entire game, from start to finish. It's what bring different people together (Ienzo, Ansem, HPO, Vexen...) because they all share the same goal and it definitely doesn't happen for maybe an hour.

If that’s what you feel. Referencing it over the story doesn’t mean it was integrated well or a major focus of the story. We spend a lot of time focusing on the Disney stories and the main plot comes in between those stories, and only in small brief moments. And in those moments, they are almost expository dialogue to tell Sora about something rather than us seeing anything.

If that worked for you, great.

That wasn't his plan. He wanted to bring the world(s) to a blank state. No light and no darkness, tabula rasa.

He literally says at the end of KH3 he wanted to make the world “pure and bright”. That’s not a tabula rasa.

 

[Audo]

His plan was to reset the World to the beginning, where it was just KH's light and then from there essentially be a controlling force of the people that would emerge so that light and dark existed in balance and that rampant darkness wouldn't cover the world again.

 

[Sora2016]

I’m going to address the TWEWY thing first before getting back to your question: Why would Nomura bother making Shibuya, specifically the TWEWY Shibuya, a major setting in a future KH project if he was not trying to build the importance of it and those characters up in some manner? You can’t go around saying that if you remove those characters, the experience is the same because Nomura himself created the expectation for them. He didn’t have to, but he did. That’s the kind of stuff I hate reading because it completely undermines what was actually developed to create some narrative that fans are asking for too much.

No, people are literally asking for something that was intentionally placed in the series. They don’t want to set those expectations? They should have never included it in the first place. They did, so they need to understand that people will ask for these things BECAUSE of their own actions, not because of our expectations alone.

Honestly the whole Shibuya thing pisses me off more than the exclusion of FF in this game lol. It literally makes no freaking sense, like at the very least if his heart was so set on Shibuya he should have renamed the 109 building again. Unless he thought it was a cute reference or something idk.

I've always had an issue with KH not actually using its crossover nature as well as it could, and I think this game did Disney mostly how I would prefer to see them in the future. Maybe even more integrated into the overall narrative. But at least Disney and KH characters actually interacted and the Disney ones had some of the best impact on what was happening. But now they seem to have lost interest in Square properties entirely and to just fill that void with more and more KH original characters. Which, I guess if Nomura really has all these ideas for KH characters then sure? But I guess we have to see if even half of them have fulfilling arcs or points to them.
But at the moment I just can't see how Yozora and MoM being around suddenly means Neku and company can't be around either, if that's even what Nomura is thinking at the moment.

I get that they wanted to make this easy for new fans...but kids literally play Fortnite all day. THEY GOOD, YASUE. THEY GOOD.

Also that is what BEGINNER MODE IS FOR. Proud should have been kicking our asses at least a little bit. Whenever I DID die, it was because of dumb reasons and not because I was having a hard time playing the game.

Also the lack of being aware that people wanted FF characters...Like I swear this is something that was always brought up by fans even during the BBS/Days/coded days. They were wondering where the FF characters were and Nomura was like "oh we didn't want to have too many and overwhelm the story" and everybody said "NO PLEASE SHOW THEM"

Many of us don't care how many FF crossover projects they have going on. That isn't us getting to see Donald talk to Cloud Strife or Merlin arguing with Cid. That isn't resolving the plot of Radiant Garden. What do Leon and the Restoration guys feel about THE VERY PEOPLE WHO LED THEIR WORLD TO RUIN COMING BACK AND TAKING OVER THE CASTLE LIKE NOTHING. There are narrative reasons why we wanted to see them again.

And their BS answer about it interfering with the story. NO. We don't even deal with the main cast until the LAST FOUR HOURS.

I respect and admire the entire KH team. Yasue is my favorite director at SE.

I just really wish they had taken the time to really think about this stuff before just moving ahead and assuming these things. I get that they had issues with the game and I know a lot of what he is saying could very well be PR talk, but still.

ugh.

I guess this really does encompass my general feelings of criticism to the game, though I do think I wasn't hit as hard by it. Or rather, I did come out focusing on the positives over the negatives. I dunno quite why. I do think I had "low" expectations like Audo was saying as well. Cuz I honestly do feel generally content with the game at the moment.

Though I am anticipating improvements from the DLC. In regards to difficulty and some added information more than anything. I am looking forward to more post-game content but honestly, it took me 90 hours to actually find all the freaking Lucky Emblems and Chests on my own lol. If I had used a guide, then maybe I would feel differently lol.

 

[Squood!]

So am I right in feeling that putting so much focus on the Disney worlds was a bit of a bad idea?

 

[drew0512]

If that’s what you feel. Referencing it over the story doesn’t mean it was integrated well or a major focus of the story. We spend a lot of time focusing on the Disney stories and the main plot comes in between those stories, and only in small brief moments. And in those moments, they are almost expository dialogue to tell Sora about something rather than us seeing anything.

If that worked for you, great.

It's not about what worked for me, it's about what objectively happens in the game. Roxas' story (which is deeply intertwined with Naminé's and Xion's) is a costant plot point because it's connected to several other characters. At the start of the game, the focus is on Sora's POV as he helps HPO gain access to data in Twilight Town. Then, Sora is off doing what he has to do. The next step is to get a replica for Roxas (and the others) and that's when the shift goes from Sora's POV to other people's POV: Vexen, Demyx, Ienzo and Ansem (and HPO again). They all work together (directly and indirectly) to bring people back, at different times of the game. And we do see things: Sora and HPO gain access to data on screen, Vexen and Demyx plot against the Organization on screen, Demyx hands over Roxas' replica on screen, Roxas' heart leaves Sora's body on screen.
And again, it's not about arguing whether it was done right or wrong, it's about stating that no, it wasn't a plot point for an hour then left up in the air until the end.

He literally says at the end of KH3 he wanted to make the world “pure and bright”. That’s not a tabula rasa.

His full quote is "An empty World, full and bright" which is a glaring mistranslation because it doesn't make sense. How can a world be empty and at the same time bright (=full of light)? He wants to reset the World so that it can finally achieve a balance between Light and Darkness this time, under his guide. He wants a blank world, as stated in the japanese version.

 

[Elysium]

I guess this really does encompass my general feelings of criticism to the game, though I do think I wasn't hit as hard by it. Or rather, I did come out focusing on the positives over the negatives. I dunno quite why. I do think I had "low" expectations like Audo was saying as well. Cuz I honestly do feel generally content with the game at the moment.

I have mostly a positive impression of KH3. The lack of Radiant Garden and the FF characters there are the only thing I'd say I'm really bitter about. Although I wish KH3 had a coliseum and a critical mode, the game's not as ridiculously easy as KH2 was, imo. I'll have no access to the bandaid DLC content, unless they release it in physical form as a Final Mix someday, so.... This is pretty much what KH3 will always be for me.

 

[Audo]

To me the Disney worlds are the best thing about the game and the first time since KH1 that I felt like Disney was actually done well. Felt the closest to actually hit the potential of what these worlds can do and be like. They're the highlight. So I don't think it was a mistake for them to put the energy there. The vast majority of the game is always Disney worlds so putting a lot of attention and care there is a good decision to make, imo.

Idk. I don't really want to argue with anyone about how they feel about the game. So much of this is subjective and things that can be dealbreakers for some are barely a passing thought to others, but since the trend in this thread (and in forums/discussions in general among fans) trend toward hating the game... Idk, I guess I'll just offer my counterstance which is that I loved it? I'm not sure why I had such a diametrically opposed reaction to the game as others but I did. This was honestly like the first KH game that I found to be genuinely fun? Like, i've enjoyed every game of course, but KH3 was capital-f Fun for me. I had a constant smile on my face the entire time. I laughed out loud more in this one game than in the entire series combined (it's like the first time KH is actually funny??). There was so many things that made me clutch my heart, that moved me or stirred me, from little details and things to the bigger moments, too. I loved how the Disney characters actually interacted with the Org this time around, some of them getting amazing moments with them. I thought the Disney worlds were fantastic and an absolute joy. I can find a ton of things to like about all of them, and some of them (most of them?) I downright love and that's coming from someone who was always kind of ehh on how Disney has been used since KH1.

Going into the game, we were told that the Disney worlds were primarily for gameplay progression and the original worlds were primarily for story progression so I went into it expecting that the Disney worlds would be the huge gameplay environments while the OC worlds would be more pared down and streamlined so that stuff, idk, it just never bothered me? Like I see people complaining about Twilight Town and wanting it to be bigger and have more areas, but to me I guess I just don't see the need? I like that the worlds are as big as they need to be to do what they need to do, and we've played through these worlds a lot already.

I don't know. I guess I just made the decision going in knowing it wouldn't be perfect but to try and accept KH3 for what it was trying to be instead of what I would have liked to see. KH3 was always this big looming thing, a giant blank canvas that fans could project anything they wanted onto it, and what it could be and how it would develop and now that someone has to actually fill in that canvas and narrow the realm of possibility from what could happen to what does happen (while also wrestling with the reality of constraints such as budget, time, resources, etc) there was no way everyone was going to be satisfied. And some of those expectations simply are unrealistic and could never have been done. It was just juggling so much, had such an immense, impossible task on its shoulders. The development troubles. How much resources it takes to make things in the new gen. Having to recreate every single asset from scratch (and also not being able to have any assets carry over from one world to the next). Idk, I guess I'm just soft to it and to the devs. They're just people trying their best, putting 30,000+ hours of their life into this game.

I also feel like people kind of treat KH3 as an end. Like, that it was the only time for their fav characters to be important, to have their moment, to interact with each other. But it's not the end. Most if not all of these characters will carry forward to the new saga, where they will have more breathing room to have those interactions and dynamics grow and be shown. I had always believed that KH4 was the title to look forward to when it comes to the character interaction stuff because I knew that KH3 would be too busy focusing on the big plot climax to be able to deliver there, so again that stuff didn't bother me as much as others I guess.

I don't know, maybe KH3 was always destined to be very contentious but the amount of blowback for it has really surprised me this time for some reason. At times it almost feels like I played a different game from everyone else with the way they talk about it, haha. But to me, I loved it, fully. I saw a review before the game came out, the headline was something like "Kingdom Hearts III is an Ode to Joy". And that's honestly how I feel about the game. I just think it is so full of joy and life and it's brimming with it in every aspect of it. Every world has things I love about it. There was never a time I wasn't enjoying what I was playing, or wasn't full of wide-eyed wonder at it all. It has some of the highest highs in the series for me, full of amazing moments, and care, and laughter and fun. It renewed my faith in the series (especially when it comes to the Disney side of things) and made me excited for the future. Even now I keep finding new things that spark joy in me (like how you can ride the attractions in first person, how when Sora attacks while sliding down hills he uses his Keyblade like a skateboard, how you can melt the antlers on the Winterhorn... like I feel like every time I play the game I find a new little thing that just touches my heart and makes me happy).

The more time I spend away from the game, the more I find my affection for it growing.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue with anyone about my feelings about the game or anything, just wanted to put forth a different take I guess. The few gameplay shortcomings I did find all seem to be things that will be addressed in the future so I wasn't too miffed about it now. Maybe it really was just me, but for me KH3 was full to brimming with things to love about it. And that was the lasting impression I was left with.

 

[Sora2016]

To me the Disney worlds are the best thing about the game and the first time since KH1 that I felt like Disney was actually done well. Felt the closest to actually hit the potential of what these worlds can do and be like. They're the highlight. So I don't think it was a mistake for them to put the energy there. The vast majority of the game is always Disney worlds so putting a lot of attention and care there is a good decision to make, imo.

I also feel like people kind of treat KH3 as an end. Like, that it was the only time for their fav characters to be important, to have their moment, to interact with each other. But it's not the end. Most if not all of these characters will carry forward to the new saga, where they will have more breathing room to have those interactions and dynamics grow and be shown. I had always believed that KH4 was the title to look forward to when it comes to the character interaction stuff because I knew that KH3 would be too busy focusing on the big plot climax to be able to deliver there, so again that stuff didn't bother me as much as others I guess.

Yeah I really loved the Disney worlds as well. It felt like KH1 again for sure, so I also agree it wasn't a mistake. All of the games are 80% Disney anyway so might as well focus on them a lot. I do want the KH original worlds to have at least some more time put into them in the future as well though. I did miss exploring them both old and new. But I also can't imagine them going backwards in regards to Disney worlds now.

And yeah, this is probably what has kept me relatively in check about certain characters as well. I think Aqua, Mickey, and Riku didn't get nearly as much credit as I would have liked, but I have hope all 3 will get moments in the future.

 

[DarkosOverlord]

So am I right in feeling that putting so much focus on the Disney worlds was a bit of a bad idea?

It's not that it was a bad idea per se, it was a bad idea here.
There's a problem with the "KH games were always about Disney for the most part" stance: that other KH games weren't Kingdom Hearts III, the Keyblade War between 20+ original characters and resolution scenarios connected with 4-5 original worlds.
Nobody cried when Castle Oblivion wasn't fully explorable in Days or DDD, because it was clearly an endgame point connected to Ventus being awake, therefore something related to the final clash with Xehanort.
A lot of instances and unresolved points weren't considered "flaws" in in-between KH titles because there was this ever present feeling that everything would've been resolved in KH III, so a lot of that was kept in suspesion. And when KH III dropped, it just couldn't keep up with what other games neglected, and ended neglecting those points as well or delivered them in a rushed manner.

I guess for some people the takeaway instead was that this is how KH games be, but I always saw it this way. Whenever a KH title didn't touch upon something main-plot related, those blank spots went piling up somewhere and I hoped for their time to shine when the time would've come.

Besides... I feel like KH1 and KH II go over original worlds far more than KH III does anyway. Traverse Town and Hollow Bastion/Radiant Garden are these big important places full of areas and forced returns to witness many important story events and connections, and they act as the HQ for the main group of good guys (namely Sora and the FF crew). KH II especially, it gives the main focus to Disney stuff but doesn't neglect to handle the fight for Hollow Bastion and all the intrigue and revelations tied to Ansem's Computer.
KH III cram all of the main stuff at the end and even there it's not even THAT much, considered that CO and Land of Departure are done in one clean swoop and the Graveyard is essentially walking to every single cutscene and event nonstop.

So not only I feel like KH III belongs in its own rank when it comes to this stuff and cannot always be compared with how older titles did, but it also kinda underperformed there. It wasn't even busy with the big plot climax, it was busy with Disney worlds and then rushed the big plot climax itself at the end.

It's not about what worked for me, it's about what objectively happens in the game. Roxas' story (which is deeply intertwined with Naminé's and Xion's) is a costant plot point because it's connected to several other characters. At the start of the game, the focus is on Sora's POV as he helps HPO gain access to data in Twilight Town. Then, Sora is off doing what he has to do. The next step is to get a replica for Roxas (and the others) and that's when the shift goes from Sora's POV to other people's POV: Vexen, Demyx, Ienzo and Ansem (and HPO again). They all work together (directly and indirectly) to bring people back, at different times of the game. And we do see things: Sora and HPO gain access to data on screen, Vexen and Demyx plot against the Organization on screen, Demyx hands over Roxas' replica on screen, Roxas' heart leaves Sora's body on screen.
And again, it's not about arguing whether it was done right or wrong, it's about stating that no, it wasn't a plot point for an hour then left up in the air until the end.

The problem is that you're underselling the main bulk of the game as "Sora is off doing what he has to do", which in reality it translates to goofing around for 30 hours achieving essentially nothing.
It wasn't even "what he had to do", what he had to do was getting the power of waking back, and that had no realtion whatsoever with the Disney worlds.

I have little doubt that the intention was to paint the Roxas subplot as you wrote, but this is a videogame. Doesn't matter how many times you repeat POV and on-screen, it really doesn't make those scenes more immersive or cohesive when between one another I have... essentially the remaining 90% of the game which is about completely different tones and themes.
It's the same problem other KH titles had: I didn't care about seeing the Organization twirling their mustaches in KH II talking about what to do with this Sora fellow, and BbS and DDD having their little moral lesson and main-plot tie-in at the very end of each world when it all felt so disjointed with the rest of the game.

What I think Spockanort meant with the one hour for Roxas wasn't strictly the runtime in which Roxas is the subject of discussion, but rather that we only truly feel like this Roxas thing is relevant when Sora, the main character we're following and controlling, is actively engaged in it on an active and emotional level. And that only happens during Twilight Town's visit, anything else are expositionary cutscenes that only serve to remember the audience that this subplot is still ongoing, but nodding to every conversation will be the rest of Sora's contribution to it.

For anything else I'll just refer to what she said: if characters mentioning other characters and TALKING about saving them is enough for you to feel emtionally invested then good for you. For me that's only step 1, when you write the whole thing on paper, and step 2 is putting the effort to make me feel like it's part of my gaming experience and that at every turn I feel a real sense of progression in its resolution.

I also feel like people kind of treat KH3 as an end. Like, that it was the only time for their fav characters to be important, to have their moment, to interact with each other. But it's not the end. Most if not all of these characters will carry forward to the new saga, where they will have more breathing room to have those interactions and dynamics grow and be shown. I had always believed that KH4 was the title to look forward to when it comes to the character interaction stuff because I knew that KH3 would be too busy focusing on the big plot climax to be able to deliver there, so again that stuff didn't bother me as much as others I guess

Since this was indeed just your contribution with your feelings on the game, I thought of avoiding replying here directly and put my thoughts on this part and what KH III represented in my first reply above.
Maybe it's just silly, but eh. Didn't feel like doing the "well, actually" here.

Other than that, and this is also just MY personal view on the matter and not some objective truth... I'm kinda tired of hoping that at the next turn things will be better and X character will finally say "tomatoes!" to Y character like we're all hoping they will, and that we'll have this fabled breathing room for both characters interactions and original worlds, only for the next KH game to come, NOT doing any of it or very little, and then going back into the waiting room for the next next KH game to turn the tables.

The other day I read some stray comments (I don't even remember who it was) saying that they hoped in the next Kingdom Hearts Ven and Roxas would've had some funny interactions while acknowledging their resemblance and connections. It's a small thing, really, but when I read it I went "Oh, God."
That was one of the "memes" for KH III. What people wished to see, among other things. And now they just transposed all of those into the next KH to wait for. And I'm like... I dunno. At some point I'm done playing the waiting game, I want my payoff. And the thing is that between marketing and interviews KH III was presented as this payoff, so I'm even less thrilled to just putting the lid back on my hopes and going back to waiting.

This is turning into a rant so I'll just say: this is grim. It's pessimistic. It's not how many of y'all feel, and I'm glad because I am not in an happy place when I think like this, lol.
I guess this was my try into making some understand where the salt and frustration come from and that I didn't just decided to hate this game on a daily whim.
I want to end on a positive note for both me and the game, so: I'm replaying KH III and discovered that the accessory you get for getting the bistrot to one star helps you cooking with excellent more often.
Those eggs have nothing on me now.

 

[Sakuraba Neku]

And to repeat so there is no misunderstanding, it is right to criticize something that is wrong, but due to everybody having their own preferences to what they think works and doesn't, people who blindly praise something or people cynically bash everything without a single ounce of praise, the sad truth is that not everyone's expectations are gonna be met.

It's impossible to please everyone, but it's possible to please the majority.

Have Final Fantasy characters, not make Twilight Town smaller, Kairi actually doing something and Sora not being the only playable character during the Keyblade War, would help them achieving that. None of these are unrealistic demands.

Their excuse for the absence of Final Fantasy characters just isn't convincing.

There are too many original characters this time?! True.
But in the middle of so many random NPCs in Twilight Town, why Seifer's gang couldn't be there?! What's their excuse for this?!

There's no playable Radiant Garden?! Doesn't make sense considering how important that Original World has been for the plot, but whatever. Why Leon and Cid can't interact with Sora through the Gummiphone, when they were ones that helped Sora in the beginning?!

They can't answer this questions with logical answers because the truth is - There's no reason why FF characters couldn't appear in KH3.

 

[drew0512]

I have little doubt that the intention was to paint the Roxas subplot as you wrote, but this is a videogame. Doesn't matter how many times you repeat POV and on-screen, it really doesn't make those scenes more immersive or cohesive when between one another I have... essentially the remaining 90% of the game which is about completely different tones and themes.

Isn't this the essence of KH? KH games are always like this (due to its unusual nature) so it seems like a weird "complaint" to me.
Anyway, it's your opinion and I have avoided expressing mine because I don't want to tell people how they should feel (and vice versa). You said you don't enjoy those scenes while I actually really like them (but when done right, so DDD doesn't belong here).

What I think Spockanort meant with the one hour for Roxas wasn't strictly the runtime in which Roxas is the subject of discussion, but rather that we only truly feel like this Roxas thing is relevant when Sora, the main character we're following and controlling, is actively engaged in it on an active and emotional level. And that only happens during Twilight Town's visit, anything else are expositionary cutscenes that only serve to remember the audience that this subplot is still ongoing, but nodding to every conversation will be the rest of Sora's contribution to it.

That's true for the [gummi]phone calls between Sora and Ienzo, but like I said there are other cutscenes that center around the Roxas (Naminé and Xion) plot and these don't serve the purpose of remembering us that the subplot exist, they forward it.

For anything else I'll just refer to what she said: if characters mentioning other characters and TALKING about saving them is enough for you to feel emtionally invested then good for you. For me that's only step 1, when you write the whole thing on paper, and step 2 is putting the effort to make me feel like it's part of my gaming experience and that at every turn I feel a real sense of progression in its resolution.

Why are you guys jumping to conclusions, especially when this is not what the discussion is about? I didn't say that I enjoyed it, or that I felt emotionally invested or, or, or. I'm saying that, objectively, the Roxas plot wasn't "relevant" just for a moment and then dropped until the end. If for whatever reason I'm wrong or if her comment was meant to express something else, then I'm of course all ears.

 

[Xagzan]

All they had to do in this game for my liking, for me to overlook other flaws that popped up, was not treat Kairi like a four letter word I won't say on a family site.

And they couldn't even manage that lowest of bars. So I can't be generous.

But I don't expect anyone to raise that issue with Yasue or any of them given the chance.

 

[Sign]

All they had to do in this game for my liking, for me to overlook other flaws that popped up, was not treat Kairi like a four letter word I won't say on a family site.

And they couldn't even manage that lowest of bars. So I can't be generous.

But I don't expect anyone to raise that issue with Yasue or any of them given the chance.

Yasue is not involved at all with writing the story so he wouldn't be able to comment on the matter. The interview makes mention of this several times.

 

[BirthBySorrow]

"It's always been like this" is not an excuse. You expect subsequent titles to LEARN from their mistakes. You expect them to take feedback from that which is available. And as you mature with the series, you also expect it to mature itself. That's what good series do.

That's why GoW is so damn praised by a vast majority. Yes, you CAN satisfy everyone as that has clearly demonstrated. You just have to want to. You have to understand what it is about your previous game hardcore fans latched onto, expand on that and then explore new and different things in other areas. So likewise, that is also not an excuse.

What's more, KH3 makes FUNDAMENTAL screw ups that no piece of entertainment should ever make. It's practically Creative Writing 101 that you do not jam pack tons of exposition and plot into such small portion of the runtime. This is entry level stuff, and if Nomura were a true writer I'd be baffled. But he isn't. He is a character designer and director. He isn't equipped to write a sound narrative.

FF characters run Radient Garden, then suddenly don't. How did that happen? It's literally a tremendous plot hole that is never addressed. So it's not even about "KH being a crossover" series. It's just about sound writing, it's about answering questions the audience will obviously have.

I've also never, EVER, seen the kind of magnitude of the Deus Ex Machina during that entire ending sequence in my entire 30 year life experiencing entertainment. Most is not explained: where the train comes from, why Sora doesn't use it again, zettaflare, where and why souls of past Keybladers come into play when... hey, there's that train remember, everyone except Sora and Roxas suddenly becoming incompetent, Xehanort with the true Keyblade plus 12 super humans absorbed is beat by a Trinity... a Trinity (don't give me "power of friendship" nonsense).

Then there's the stuff that IS explained, but comes across convenient, lazy, still nonsensical or just plain ridiculous. Sora dies THREE... THREE... times in the span of one end game. That still makes me laugh at just how ludicrous that sounds. Where's the urgency? Where are the PERMANENT consequences? Why should I care when I know Sora is returning? What is the point, its narrative relevance?

Infinity War killed half the cast even though you knew they'd return. But you know WHY they did (besides saving money)? Because they wanted to provide motivation for the remaining few, because they wanted to give the original team one last hoorah. It had purpose. Sora's deaths are just cheap attempts at shock value. There's no reason for them. And it certainly wasn't to show Kairi's relevance/strength as a character by saving him the first time. If it was, they wouldn't have made her the quintessential plot device of the entire series.

Sure The Final World is explained... but why does it exist? What about the Underworld in Olympus, why do the souls go there instead of to The Final World? Why is the lore so loose? Where is the discipline?

I know KH is full of this stuff, but it's usually kept to a minimum and is spread across the entire series. Here, we get 10 titles worth of complete nonsense in one game, with about 9 titles of it happening in the last 3 or so hours. I don't care if you like it, you can like it and i'd never attack you for it, but you can't look at it objectively and say "this is okay." Objectively, this is bad writing. Objectively, this is terrible pacing. Objectively, this shouldn't be acceptable.

 

[SerDuncan]

Isn't this the essence of KH? KH games are always like this (due to its unusual nature) so it seems like a weird "complaint" to me.
Anyway, it's your opinion and I have avoided expressing mine because I don't want to tell people how they should feel (and vice versa). You said you don't enjoy those scenes while I actually really like them (but when done right, so DDD doesn't belong here).


That's true for the [gummi]phone calls between Sora and Ienzo, but like I said there are other cutscenes that center around the Roxas (Naminé and Xion) plot and these don't serve the purpose of remembering us that the subplot exist, they forward it.


Why are you guys jumping to conclusions, especially when this is not what the discussion is about? I didn't say that I enjoyed it, or that I felt emotionally invested or, or, or. I'm saying that, objectively, the Roxas plot wasn't "relevant" just for a moment and then dropped until the end. If for whatever reason I'm wrong or if her comment was meant to express something else, then I'm of course all ears.

I mean... I don't think that objectively is the right word here. I think that... unfortunately, the relevance of a specific subplot can't be objectively described. I mean, when does a plot become relevant? X number of cutscenes, X number of mentions, X number of name drops? I think the point that's trying to be made is that... in terms of gameplay and story, we as the player hardly ever make any steps towards reviving Roxas. Sora recognizes, occasionally, that people are working towards this behind the scenes. But for the vast majority of the game (AKA the Disney Worlds) Roxas is an afterthought. As soon as Sora touches down in say... Toy Box, all mentions of Roxas, the urgency of bringing him back, it all goes away. He ceases to be relevant to the story. In KH2... this wasn't really the case. When Sora lands in Land of Dragons, he talks about finding Riku, stopping the heartless. It's tied to the main storyline. In KH1, there's a super easy way to continue plot relevance with the Council of Villains, the search for Kairi, Riku's continued appearances, and so on.

In KH3, Roxas quite literally gets dropped. Early on, we're led to believe that he's going to be one of the seven guardians. They make a big deal out of bringing him back. But then suddenly... everybody stops talking about him. Axel hardly mentions Roxas, even when meeting Ven again. Nobody brings up Roxas' similarity in appearance to Ven at the Mysterious Tower. Even in the Keyblade Graveyard, none of the characters mention him. He has dropped relevancy until he shows up again.

Of course, as I mentioned before, I think that relevance is subjective. The player decides (based on what they think about) how important a character is in the story. How important a subplot is. It's like how... people talk about the Soriku romance as being incredibly relevant throughout the series. Since it's basing itself on interactions that can be subjectively interpreted, it's hard to be concrete about how relevant this subplot is throughout the franchise. Roxas in KH3 is much the same way. Some people might have played the whole game waiting for Roxas, and so he feels more relevant than to people who notice that he doesn't get mentioned in the back half of the game.

 

[Elysium]

There's nothing wrong with the Disney half of the game. The lacking half is the original content. They could've managed one or two full-fledged original worlds, and, no, I don't consider that to be "expecting too much" of them. There hasn't been a KH game prior to KH3 that was lacking in that aspect--even the most recent title, 3D, had two huge worlds for the original side of things with TT and TWTNW--so I'm not going to pull out a violin for SE and how hard it is to please the fanbase when that isn't an over-expectation.