Film ► Frozen II - November 2019

[Lonbilly]

Re: Frozen - Sequel REALLY coming so you never have to "let it go"

I mean, the only character we've seen Elsa in all forms of media have an interest in was Emma in Once so I guess we can all use that as confirmation that she hella gay.

I think you're confusing Elsa with Anna, Swoosh.

 

[Zettaflare]

Re: Frozen - Sequel REALLY coming so you never have to "let it go"

Since when did Elsa have an established orientation?

(not that it would matter anyway. world don't need more straight chars,
and due to compulsory heterosexuality it's not like there isn't precedent for such a change)

I mean, the only character we've seen Elsa in all forms of media have an interest in was Emma in Once so I guess we can all use that as confirmation that she hella gay.

I think you're confusing Elsa with Anna, Swoosh.

Was it Elsa? Whoops.

I wouldnt mind Elsa being gay to be honest. Though if she is to get a love interest in the sequel it will likely be a guy

 

[Nazo]

Re: Frozen - Sequel REALLY coming so you never have to "let it go"

I have no qualms with adding LGBT characters into media, but I am not in favor of this. There's a difference between adding a character whose sexuality is merely part of their character, and adding a character purely for catering to people. If they're gonna make a gay character, don't make it a shoehorned love interest whose only purpose is to represent the LGBT community and to be Elsa's love interest. Characters who exist purely to be love interests are always lame. Think about Mulan 2. "Let's make female versions of Yao, Ling, and Po and then make them all fall in love respectively". Their worth as a character is rooted in being a love interest and they come off as shallow characters because they have no depth to them aside from making kissy face with their paired character.

The same idea also applies to making a gay character for the sake of making a gay character. If their reason for existing in the story is purely to represent the LGBT community, they will have no real worth aside from being a gay character in a movie. That's not how it should be handled. Don't put a gay character in simply to have a gay character in there. A character's sexuality should only matter if it's part of their character and the plot, not just because people feel like they deserve representation in a fictional children's animation.

 

[Audo]

Re: Frozen - Sequel REALLY coming so you never have to "let it go"

I have no qualms with adding LGBT characters into media, but I am not in favor of this. There's a difference between adding a character whose sexuality is merely part of their character, and adding a character purely for catering to people.

When will people stop adding straight characters to cater to people, amirite

If they're gonna make a gay character, don't make it a shoehorned love interest whose only purpose is to represent the LGBT community and to be Elsa's love interest. Characters who exist purely to be love interests are always lame.

This may shock you, but it's possible for a character to be both a love interest and an interesting character in their own right. Do you think that Kristof is a shoehorned love interest? "Give Elsa a Girlfriend" is a starting off point, it's not the conclusion to who that character is or how they would be written or what role they would play in the story.

A character's sexuality should only matter if it's part of their character and the plot, not just because people feel like they deserve representation in a fictional children's animation.

And yet, no straight character ever has to justify their straightness. Funny, that.


lol it would be so nice if for once when gay chars came up the discussion was about how it could be implemented and not a debate about it being "catering" or "forced". ah well.

 

[Nazo]

Re: Frozen - Sequel REALLY coming so you never have to "let it go"

When I say "catering", I'm talking specifically about this instance. Giving Elsa a love interest in response to this hashtag would be catering to people, because it's not Disney's idea. If Disney made the creative choice to add a gay character into Frozen 2, cool. But doing it for fanservice would be lame and cheapen the character.

 

[Audo]

Re: Frozen - Sequel REALLY coming so you never have to "let it go"

When I say "catering", I'm talking specifically about this instance. Giving Elsa a love interest in response to this hashtag would be catering to people, because it's not Disney's idea. If Disney made the creative choice to add a gay character into Frozen 2, cool. But doing it for fanservice would be lame and cheapen the character.

How would it cheapen the character? Companies make changes due to fan reaction all the time, and just because an idea may have come from an outside source doesn't mean its implementation is inherently bad. It's what they do with it that truly matters. I don't see why companies catering to straight audiences is somehow better than making a work more diverse and inclusive. Plus, as others have already pointed out, Elsa's story is already rather analogous to gay experiences -- it's why people are so interested in see this come about -- so making it more explicit would hardly cheapen the character, it would be fleshing out what is already there.

Not to mention what this would mean to queer youth around the world, to see themselves represented in something with as big of a reach as Disney. "Fanservice"/"Catering" or not, I hardly think it's lame to do something that could literally help save people's lives.

 

[Lonbilly]

Re: Frozen - Sequel REALLY coming so you never have to "let it go"

I mean, with that logic, couldn't characters like Beast, Nala, Shang, Naveen, and Meg be considered shallow because they're love interests? We know that's why they were designed. There's a difference between intentionally writing a love interest and then not properly writing your characters.

Plus, we could use this same argument about including a gay character just to include a gay character to movies like Pocahontas and Princess & the Frog, where they included minority characters just to include them. There's nothing wrong with designing a project or even a character to be good representation.

When I say "catering", I'm talking specifically about this instance. Giving Elsa a love interest in response to this hashtag would be catering to people, because it's not Disney's idea. If Disney made the creative choice to add a gay character into Frozen 2, cool. But doing it for fanservice would be lame and cheapen the character.

If it was done in a pisspoor fashion, sure, but doing something based on fanrequests doesn't always result in disaster. Hell, the show Xena: Warrior Princess only came to be because of fan demand from her on Hercules, and Xena is one of the biggest and most iconic shows of the 90s. Sure, there are a lot of bad examples of doing things based on fan demand, but there's a lot also that were done well based on fan demand.

Disney clearly had SWVII done the way it was to satisfy fans from the general mediocrity that was the three prequel films because of how fans reacted to the prequels, and I think it's kind of obvious that most people are thankful for that.

The only way it would truly be cheap is if Disney designed to do it in the most 2D, unoriginal fashion they could muster up.

 

[Audo]

Re: Frozen - Sequel REALLY coming so you never have to "let it go"

It's kind of funny to talk about catering and fanservice as this terrible thing in re: inclusivity/diversity, when we're talking about a Sequel, here. Disney didn't originally have that in mind either, but due to fan reception, thought it was a good idea. And the sequel could turn out to be good, because it's not about where ideas come from it's about what is done with them.

 

[Nazo]

Re: Frozen - Sequel REALLY coming so you never have to "let it go"

I just don't want any potential LGBT characters added purely based on them being LGBT. The media is doing it constantly, particularly in television. And it's not bad, I just hate when a character's sexuality is an obvious attempt to jump on the politically correct bandwagon. The more that gay rights have become a hot topic, the more that the media is making a more obvious attempt to make characters' sexualities a focal point in an attempt to be like "Hey look at us and how inclusive we are!" Like there's nothing wrong with having your character be LGBT, just don't have them in there purely to make a political statement. Make them an interesting and awesome character who happens to be gay, not a character written in for the sake of "Hey look, we put a gay character in it."

I mean, with that logic, couldn't characters like Beast, Nala, Shang, Naveen, and Meg be considered shallow because they're love interests? We know that's why they were designed. There's a difference between intentionally writing a love interest and then not properly writing your characters.

Plus, we could use this same argument about including a gay character just to include a gay character to movies like Pocahontas and Princess & the Frog, where they included minority characters just to include them. There's nothing wrong with designing a project or even a character to be good representation.

Fair points. I guess in Frozen's case, we already have the love dynamic between Anna and Kristoff, so it's not entirely needed for Elsa to also have a love interest, particularly when the first movie stressed the importance of the love between siblings. Disney is always one for writing characters intentionally to fall in love, because audiences enjoy a good love story, but once the love dynamic has been done, doing another can feel like overkill. Like whenever there's writing where every character falls in love, like Friends or something. Does Elsa need a partner when we've already got the pairing of Anna & Kristoff? Even giving Elsa a boyfriend feels unnecessary to me.

 

[Elysium]

Re: Frozen - Sequel REALLY coming so you never have to "let it go"

I mean, with that logic, couldn't characters like Beast, Nala, Shang, Naveen, and Meg be considered shallow because they're love interests?

Well, Nala is a shallow character. Unlike the others you listed, she has no plot importance outside of being a babymaker. But nitpicking here....

When I say "catering", I'm talking specifically about this instance. Giving Elsa a love interest in response to this hashtag would be catering to people, because it's not Disney's idea. If Disney made the creative choice to add a gay character into Frozen 2, cool. But doing it for fanservice would be lame and cheapen the character.

I'm guessing that even if Disney did add a female love interest for Elsa because they wanted to, you (and others) would still say they were catering, meeting a quota, etc. There's no real way to win on that score, so I hope they ignore people who argue that craziness. It's just like everything with The Princess and the Frog. I still here people say that movie is too PC even if everything works organically within the film. lol

 

[Nazo]

Re: Frozen - Sequel REALLY coming so you never have to "let it go"

I'm guessing that even if Disney did add a female love interest for Elsa because they wanted to, you (and others) would still say they were catering, meeting a quota, etc. There's no real way to win on that score, so I hope they ignore people who argue that craziness. It's just like everything with The Princess and the Frog. I still here people say that movie is too PC even if everything works organically within the film. lol

True. Because one could say "Oh, why doesn't Disney just make a brand new property where the character is gay from the get-go" but that would likely draw even more attention to the question of whether Disney wrote them gay to be politically correct or not. I guess there's no winning in this situation really, whether it's a brand new character or a pre-existing one. People are going to accuse Disney of being PC in either case.

 

[Antifa Lockhart]

Re: Frozen - Sequel REALLY coming so you never have to "let it go"

Here's my question, when the hell did my existence become a political statement?

I don't think people who aren't LBGT have any right to question the validity of LGBT characters existing. Where do you put that line you're talking about between catering and existing? I could write the best damn person of color, disabled, lgbt character that makes sense for any well-loved franchise of white straight guys, and some dude is gonna complain about it being overly PC, despite the fact that people like that DO exist and deserve to be represented.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Re: Frozen - Sequel REALLY coming so you never have to "let it go"

It baffles me the most when it is non-LGBT or even non-ethnic people who start sprouting this "catering" and "pandering" mess. We exist, so why should we not have characters in media that reflect our existence? How is it PC when our world is diverse, filled with people from all walks of life?

And it is like people don't hear or read what they are saying when words are laid out. You are literally telling a group of people that they shouldn't be represented in media because it would be catering to them. People who are already represented in media are telling people who aren't represented in media that they shouldn't be represented.

Please explain to me how that even sounds remotely right?

 

[Audo]

Re: Frozen - Sequel REALLY coming so you never have to "let it go"

Here's my question, when the hell did my existence become a political statement?

I don't think people who aren't LBGT have any right to question the validity of LGBT characters existing. Where do you put that line you're talking about between catering and existing? I could write the best damn person of color, disabled, lgbt character that makes sense for any well-loved franchise of white straight guys, and some dude is gonna complain about it being overly PC, despite the fact that people like that DO exist and deserve to be represented.

It baffles me the most when it is non-LGBT or even non-ethnic people who start sprouting this "catering" and "pandering" mess. We exist, so why should we not have characters in media that reflect our existence? How is it PC when our world is diverse, filled with people from all walks of life?

And it is like people don't hear or read what they are saying when words are laid out. You are literally telling a group of people that they shouldn't be represented in media because it would be catering to them. People who are already represented in media are telling people who aren't represented in media that they shouldn't be represented.

Please explain to me how that even sounds remotely right?

 

[Taochan]

Re: Frozen - Sequel REALLY coming so you never have to "let it go"

Elsa never indicates if she's straight, bi or gay so it's not pandering or damaging to her character to give her a love interest that's female......

Diversifying your characters to better represent the people that watch your films isn't pandering........

I just don't understand the constant fight against diversity.

 

[Chuman]

Re: Frozen - Sequel REALLY coming so you never have to "let it go"

the first movie was a different case because it was about true love being more than just romance. i think if frozen 2 decided to give elsa a love interest, especially a female one, that wouldn't really hurt her character. it would only build on it (seeing how she wasn't very fleshed out in the first). she never got a chance at happiness and romance so that would be a fine place to start for the sequel.

 

[Ulti]

Re: Frozen - Sequel REALLY coming so you never have to "let it go"

My only issue is that this went from "Please don't give Elsa a love interest in the sequel" to "Give Elsa a love interest in the sequel" really quickly.

 

[Audo]

Re: Frozen - Sequel REALLY coming so you never have to "let it go"

Well, it's not like Disney's hypothetical first gay love story is at all on the same footing of yet another tired straight one.

 

[Chuman]

Re: Frozen - Sequel REALLY coming so you never have to "let it go"

Well, it's not like Disney's hypothetical first gay love story is at all on the same footing of yet another tired straight one.

tired? is it tired because they're usually all sleeping

 

[Audo]

Re: Frozen - Sequel REALLY coming so you never have to "let it go"

tired? is it tired because they're usually all sleeping

Well they sure put me asleep

heyo.